Grey divorces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

Wow, what great people. Stay until the money stops coming in. But I'm sure the husbands were "controlling" or "narcissistic," or whatever other nonsense term is used to deflect responsibility.

Sometimes it's not about anything more than incompatibility. Once the kids are raised and out of the house, there is little incentive to keep trying if you realize you are fundamentally incompatible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are three primary "off-ramps" for marriage: starter marriage (about 1 year); school age kids (youngest kid about 6); and empty nest (youngest kid goes to college).

The starter marriage is just a couple of young people who made a mistake. Usually no assets or kids to speak of. About a year in, they get a divorce. It's not much different than breaking up as boyfriend/girlfriend.

The school age divorce is where having kids put a lot of pressure on some maybe unnoticed cracks in the relationship (or created new ones). In the thick of the infant/toddler years, there's not enough time or energy to notice or deal with the problems. But, when the kids go to school, there's a little more time to take stock of the wreckage and to get the divorce.

The empty nest divorce is one where the relationship has probably been on life-support for a while. But one or both of the spouses have been sticking it out for the kids. When the kids are out of the house, the relationship lacks the same level of purpose and so they end it. Sounds like you're dealing with this one in your circle.

I think this seems right. Mine was a school-age divorce that coincided with my husband's midlife crisis affair. We went through some tough times and then he leaned out.

Fellow lean-out DW here whose DH left when my kid was in 6th grade. I think DH wanted out the moment I got pregnant, to be honest, but he felt embarrassed to bail sooner.

As soon as the pressures of family socializing and gathering on the soccer sidelines, etc, were over and kids’ lives revolved more around them and there was no longer the same scrutiny on families and parents and group socializing, he seemed to take that as permission to fully lean out.

He is really enjoying his mid-life crisis, which I would more accurately describe as a mid-life recategorization of personal priorities.

[Anonymous]

About grey divorces, have you seen how older people talk to each other at the mall? I know malls aren't as much a thing any more, but I'll still use it as an example. The woman, usually, belittling the husband and being nasty. Treating him like a child. Problem with getting older is the filter. The filter is gone or going away. Some older couples say all kinds of nasty things to each other. Best to think first: whatever you're mad about, has it already happened? If your spouse has already done whatever it is, it's in the past. No use being nasty about it now.

[Anonymous]

I have been married for 35 years, and with my DH for 38 years. We have had our ups and down but I think I am more in love with my DH now then ever before. The child rearing years were very tough for me. Things became better only when I became a SAHM. However, I also had a lot of frustration for a number of years about not having a career. As I became older and realized the intangible benefits on my family of my being at home, that frustration went away.

I wish as a woman, I had not wrapped my self-worth with my career. I am extremely lucky to have been married to my DH because he was the only one in the world who appreciated what I bring to the table and has doted on me since I have known him.

I can look back our whole life and I feel that we were very successful in what we have achieved in our life, how we have parented, how we have been a couple and how we have met all our obligations and more. I won't take credit for it because it is really a matter of luck that we made it all work. I am sorry for people in abusive marriages or who just drifted apart. It really hurts my heart to see a family breaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About grey divorces, have you seen how older people talk to each other at the mall? I know malls aren't as much a thing any more, but I'll still use it as an example. The woman, usually, belittling the husband and being nasty. Treating him like a child. Problem with getting older is the filter. The filter is gone or going away. Some older couples say all kinds of nasty things to each other. Best to think first: whatever you're mad about, has it already happened? If your spouse has already done whatever it is, it's in the past. No use being nasty about it now.

It’s interesting that you mention this, as I’ve been thinking about this recently.

I used to see those couples and feel so bad for the husband. Hen-pecked and seeming like he’d just given up, I’d think how can she be like that? And now 28 years with my DH and 7 years into menopause, I relate to those wives!

While I don’t speak nastily to my DH, and I don’t berate him in public (or in private) I do get so much more easily exasperated with him and it’s harder to hold my tongue. You do get to where you have no more F’s to give. And with some husbands who grow more anxious (and with mine, repetitive) as they age, and the combination is tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

What's the obsession with "seeing other people?" We "see" plenty of people.
We have good friends and our entire family is local and we're all very close.
You do realize that there's no law requiring that one be in or pursuing a romantic relationship for happiness, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About grey divorces, have you seen how older people talk to each other at the mall? I know malls aren't as much a thing any more, but I'll still use it as an example. The woman, usually, belittling the husband and being nasty. Treating him like a child. Problem with getting older is the filter. The filter is gone or going away. Some older couples say all kinds of nasty things to each other. Best to think first: whatever you're mad about, has it already happened? If your spouse has already done whatever it is, it's in the past. No use being nasty about it now.

It’s interesting that you mention this, as I’ve been thinking about this recently.

I used to see those couples and feel so bad for the husband. Hen-pecked and seeming like he’d just given up, I’d think how can she be like that? And now 28 years with my DH and 7 years into menopause, I relate to those wives!

While I don’t speak nastily to my DH, and I don’t berate him in public (or in private) I do get so much more easily exasperated with him and it’s harder to hold my tongue. You do get to where you have no more F’s to give. And with some husbands who grow more anxious (and with mine, repetitive) as they age, and the combination is tough.

And you become bitter and nasty and pretend that you're justly aggrieved about something. Tough combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

- Women (often) get alimony and 50% of "marital assets", even if husband killed himself in big law while she was at the club (and au pair was shuttling the kids). Less provocatively, he was the primary earner in a stressful job while she enjoyed lower paying but more relaxed employment, yet...
- he loses half his net worth and -- critically -- retirement $$ at 60+, with little time to claw it back
- women are typically more social and have broader friend / support networks
- when good men marry, they (should) "grow up" and focus on family, and on work to provide for them. They lose track of partying friends and rely on work relationships that end at retirement. They may chat with their wife's friends' husbands, but that ends with divorce.
- Today's culture says "you go girl! you don't need the no stinkin' patrimony"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think men are struggling more than women after gray divorces

Yep! And feeling used and abandoned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

What's the obsession with "seeing other people?" We "see" plenty of people.
We have good friends and our entire family is local and we're all very close.
You do realize that there's no law requiring that one be in or pursuing a romantic relationship for happiness, right?

Your reply is nonresponsive. Not sure who you think you're debating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's considered gray divorce until you're over 60. Divorce with high school kids is just divorce.

You can be over 60 and have HS kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been married for 35 years, and with my DH for 38 years. We have had our ups and down but I think I am more in love with my DH now then ever before. The child rearing years were very tough for me. Things became better only when I became a SAHM. However, I also had a lot of frustration for a number of years about not having a career. As I became older and realized the intangible benefits on my family of my being at home, that frustration went away.

I wish as a woman, I had not wrapped my self-worth with my career. I am extremely lucky to have been married to my DH because he was the only one in the world who appreciated what I bring to the table and has doted on me since I have known him.

I can look back our whole life and I feel that we were very successful in what we have achieved in our life, how we have parented, how we have been a couple and how we have met all our obligations and more. I won't take credit for it because it is really a matter of luck that we made it all work. I am sorry for people in abusive marriages or who just drifted apart. It really hurts my heart to see a family breaking.

Have you been reading this thread? Some of us have "drifted apart" pretty painlessly and without the "family breaking." Spare us the drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are three primary "off-ramps" for marriage: starter marriage (about 1 year); school age kids (youngest kid about 6); and empty nest (youngest kid goes to college).

The starter marriage is just a couple of young people who made a mistake. Usually no assets or kids to speak of. About a year in, they get a divorce. It's not much different than breaking up as boyfriend/girlfriend.

The school age divorce is where having kids put a lot of pressure on some maybe unnoticed cracks in the relationship (or created new ones). In the thick of the infant/toddler years, there's not enough time or energy to notice or deal with the problems. But, when the kids go to school, there's a little more time to take stock of the wreckage and to get the divorce.

The empty nest divorce is one where the relationship has probably been on life-support for a while. But one or both of the spouses have been sticking it out for the kids. When the kids are out of the house, the relationship lacks the same level of purpose and so they end it. Sounds like you're dealing with this one in your circle.

This makes a lot of sense. At to that mid-life crises and/or menopause, and people want to chase more happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in college, and I only know of two recent divorces among my friend group: one was a marriage that has visibly foundered for years, and one was a couple that had always lived somewhat separate lives (e.g, they still had separate bank accounts). I don't know of any divorces among couples that seem happily married.

Interesting...I'm pushing 60 and I don't know 1 person in a "happy marriage". The thing is people have to be completely miserable to divorce. But "happy" nope. Happy life, yes... but how much the marriage contributes to the happiness I just don't see it.

Most live separately together.

My 60-something brother and his wife of many years are in such a happy marriage it's nauseating. So it does happen.

We've also been married for decades and our kids are long out of the house. We live totally separate lives in our two houses (primary and second/vacation homes), travel separately, etc. We see each other when we're with the kids and grandkids, which is often, and we are perfectly civil with each other and it's never awkward between us and the rest of the clan. We've both just moved on. But we will never divorce because it's just not worth the trouble. We have plenty of money and we both have the same approach to spending and everything is joint and an open book, so . . .

My brother says we're basically a married couple with separate bedrooms that happen to be 100 miles apart, and he's right -- except the houses aren't quite that far apart ha ha.

It works for us.

Do either of you sleep with other people? Would it matter?

I don't even give it a second thought and I assume my spouse doesn't either. Not everybody is sex crazed all the time. It's typically the last thing on my mind.

If you're both over sex or if you don't care if the other sees other people, then it sounds perfect.

What's the obsession with "seeing other people?" We "see" plenty of people.
We have good friends and our entire family is local and we're all very close.
You do realize that there's no law requiring that one be in or pursuing a romantic relationship for happiness, right?

Your reply is nonresponsive. Not sure who you think you're debating.

Yea sorry that came off wrong. My point was simply that it never occurs to either of us to see other people and the assumption that doing that is always a thing is something I disagree with.