Concerns about TJ Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

Keep telling yourself that. It apparently makes you feel better about yourself.

The DEI nonsense is dead. Merit is back

Not yet, but it's coming. Even the left has started to realize their mistakes on that front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Please read the thread someone created about rigor at TJ, though feel free to ignore the last few pages, which devolved into the same tired bickering. I’m convinced there is a troll here in the AAP section who worked on the admissions revision and/or is part of the FCPS Chief Equity Officer, Nardos King’s 55-person department at Gatehouse.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

TJ has far too many students who were forced, by their parents, to go. Don’t be that parent.

As for the revised standards, the opinions about it really don’t matter on an individual basis. They will not change in time for the next admission cycle.

If your child decides TJ is the right fit, by all means, have them apply. There is little to no guarantee of admission (unless you have the right “experience factors” which account for up to 40% of the decision).

TJ is a wonderful opportunity for the right student.

And it's is a horrible soul crushing confidence killer for the wrong student.

This is an often overlooked cost.

Everybody frames the cost as some rich smart kids not being put in a rigorous environment that they think they are entitled to. Theya re rich and smart they will be fine

Putting aside how shitty a person you have to be to believe this is OK, you are also ignoring the kids who are unprepared for TJ and go there only to drown there but by the end of their freshman year, they cannot bear the thought of going back to their base school with their tail between their legs. So they gut it out at TJ with Bs and Cs with a few As and Ds mixed in, go to NOVA and get into UVA through the back door...maybe.

There are a lot of terrible bad-faith arguments against the modernization of the admissions process, but this is by far one of the most disingenuous and paternalistic.

Pretending that you care about students who go to TJ and are in over their heads for their own sake is really gross when what you're really doing is advocating for kids in their academic situation to have no hope of attending.

Kids who are drowning go back to their base school. This happened all the time prior to the changes in the admissions process and is genuinely no big deal. They're not returning to their base school "with their tail between their legs" - they're usually going back because it's just not the right fit for them for whatever reason and there isn't any shame in it. You're applying shame to it probably because you would have shame about it if it happened to your kid.

Kids who go back get replaced through the froshmore admissions process and those kids generally come in, hit the ground running, and do very well for themselves. They're no worse off for having missed out on their freshman year and you still have a huge chunk of kids who would never have had a shot at TJ in the first place who end up doing very well and improving outcomes for themselves by being in a stronger environment.

The Class of 2025 was the most unprepared probably in TJ history, thanks to a combination of a new process that had yet to be refined and an overcorrection that gave too much credit (rather than the appropriate amount) to kids for coming from disadvantaged economic backgrounds. And they still had fantastic and successful TJ careers with excellent college outcomes.

It's not "no big deal" - even if they do excellently in grade 10 onwards, the low 9th grade GPA will be an ever present black mark, reminding elite colleges that this is a student who failed to handle the demands of an elite high school. On the other hand, if they had stayed at their local hs, they would have excellent grade all throughout and there would be no evidence that they would have been unable to handle TJ and thus they would be a much more appealing admit to elite colleges.

Or they write an amazing essay reflecting how hard they had to work to catch up as a freshman in order to excel in their last three years and demonstrate their dedication to their education and crush it with higher tiered schools. If you don't think that an essay outlining how hard it is to come from an impoverished school, get slapped in the face freshman year, work your butt off and end up with A's at an elite school is not going to lead to lots of acceptance, you are crazy. Especially if the student applies to one of the schools, like all the University of California schools, that looks at grades 10-12 because they know some kids struggle with 9th grade.

That's not what happens. They stop seeing themselves as academic and start to just coast and graduate at the bottom of the class.

[Anonymous]

OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

I was surprised that you can apply with a 3.5 given how easy it is to get As in middle school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

By excellent grades, do you mean all As so far?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

I was surprised that you can apply with a 3.5 given how easy it is to get As in middle school

You do realize that most of the kids in MS are not getting A's? My kid's friend group has a few kids with straight A's, some kids working hard for As and A-s, and the majority with A's and B's. He is unusual in that he has all As and has very limited homework. His friends are bringing home homework that takes anywhere from 30 minutes to hours to complete. They are at Carson in AAP or all honors classes.

There are parents who post regularly on this forum about using tutors to keep their kid a float in AAP math at the ES level. A 3.5 GPA, with 3 honors classes, is not easy for a lot of kids. Parents who are interested in TJ tend to have kids who are doing well in school, some with little support, some with a lot of support, which might blind you to the fact that the requirements for TJ are more rigorous than you think.

That said, I would prefer the GPA be a 3.75 and that Geometry was required by 8th grade with a pass advanced on the Algebra 1 SOL. I think it would help find students that are a better academic fit. You could adjust the math requirement for the schools that have fewer kids in Geometry in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Please read the thread someone created about rigor at TJ, though feel free to ignore the last few pages, which devolved into the same tired bickering. I’m convinced there is a troll here in the AAP section who worked on the admissions revision and/or is part of the FCPS Chief Equity Officer, Nardos King’s 55-person department at Gatehouse.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

TJ has far too many students who were forced, by their parents, to go. Don’t be that parent.

As for the revised standards, the opinions about it really don’t matter on an individual basis. They will not change in time for the next admission cycle.

If your child decides TJ is the right fit, by all means, have them apply. There is little to no guarantee of admission (unless you have the right “experience factors” which account for up to 40% of the decision).

TJ is a wonderful opportunity for the right student.

And it's is a horrible soul crushing confidence killer for the wrong student.

This is an often overlooked cost.

Everybody frames the cost as some rich smart kids not being put in a rigorous environment that they think they are entitled to. Theya re rich and smart they will be fine

Putting aside how shitty a person you have to be to believe this is OK, you are also ignoring the kids who are unprepared for TJ and go there only to drown there but by the end of their freshman year, they cannot bear the thought of going back to their base school with their tail between their legs. So they gut it out at TJ with Bs and Cs with a few As and Ds mixed in, go to NOVA and get into UVA through the back door...maybe.

There are a lot of terrible bad-faith arguments against the modernization of the admissions process, but this is by far one of the most disingenuous and paternalistic.

Pretending that you care about students who go to TJ and are in over their heads for their own sake is really gross when what you're really doing is advocating for kids in their academic situation to have no hope of attending.

Kids who are drowning go back to their base school. This happened all the time prior to the changes in the admissions process and is genuinely no big deal. They're not returning to their base school "with their tail between their legs" - they're usually going back because it's just not the right fit for them for whatever reason and there isn't any shame in it. You're applying shame to it probably because you would have shame about it if it happened to your kid.

Kids who go back get replaced through the froshmore admissions process and those kids generally come in, hit the ground running, and do very well for themselves. They're no worse off for having missed out on their freshman year and you still have a huge chunk of kids who would never have had a shot at TJ in the first place who end up doing very well and improving outcomes for themselves by being in a stronger environment.

The Class of 2025 was the most unprepared probably in TJ history, thanks to a combination of a new process that had yet to be refined and an overcorrection that gave too much credit (rather than the appropriate amount) to kids for coming from disadvantaged economic backgrounds. And they still had fantastic and successful TJ careers with excellent college outcomes.

It's not "no big deal" - even if they do excellently in grade 10 onwards, the low 9th grade GPA will be an ever present black mark, reminding elite colleges that this is a student who failed to handle the demands of an elite high school. On the other hand, if they had stayed at their local hs, they would have excellent grade all throughout and there would be no evidence that they would have been unable to handle TJ and thus they would be a much more appealing admit to elite colleges.

PP. If freshmen year at TJ completely torpedoes your GPA, it is unlikely that an elite college was in your future anyway. So yeah, it's not a big deal.

And a lot of you really need to stop acting as if not getting into an elite college is some kind of devastating unacceptable outcome.

"Ever present black mark". No wonder your kids are so stressed.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the 40% experience factors everyone is talking about making the process unreliable. The essays/Problem solving exam is hard and does provide information on the kid's skills in writing, language, math and science. Are you saying that even if a child fails/does poorly on these, they can still get in the top of their allocated public school quota? I don't get it. My kid got in to TJ coming from private school and a 9 year intense weekly math prep program, and we thought the exam seemed fair. I am not really sure what the issue is with the process besides maybe the fact that each middle school gets a quota but it only applies if the kids do well right? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the 40% experience factors everyone is talking about making the process unreliable. The essays/Problem solving exam is hard and does provide information on the kid's skills in writing, language, math and science. Are you saying that even if a child fails/does poorly on these, they can still get in the top of their allocated public school quota? I don't get it. My kid got in to TJ coming from private school and a 9 year intense weekly math prep program, and we thought the exam seemed fair. I am not really sure what the issue is with the process besides maybe the fact that each middle school gets a quota but it only applies if the kids do well right? Thanks

My kid is a senior at TJ. She thought the test was weirdly simple. It’s just the essays and the one single math or science problem.

People that hate the new system the most tend to be those vehemently opposed to the per MS allocations. They much preferred it when a small handful of schools reaped all the rewards because parents at those schools are hell bent on TJ so we’re prepping their kids extensively in MS to qualify them.

I support the changes overall but even I will acknowledge that the biggest part of where it breaks down is in selecting the kids within a MS. If you are at a schools that sends very few kids this likely isn’t an issue as kids kind of self select into testing for TJ. If you are at a school where almost all the kids apply it is a big problem. Eliminating teacher input / Recc’s means they are flying blind trying to pick the kids that really need selected from those large groups.
The biggest issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

Or just require 8th grade geometry. Every FCPS student has the opportunity to take algebra in 7th and geometry in 8th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

I was surprised that you can apply with a 3.5 given how easy it is to get As in middle school

You do realize that most of the kids in MS are not getting A's? My kid's friend group has a few kids with straight A's, some kids working hard for As and A-s, and the majority with A's and B's. He is unusual in that he has all As and has very limited homework. His friends are bringing home homework that takes anywhere from 30 minutes to hours to complete. They are at Carson in AAP or all honors classes.

There are parents who post regularly on this forum about using tutors to keep their kid a float in AAP math at the ES level. A 3.5 GPA, with 3 honors classes, is not easy for a lot of kids. Parents who are interested in TJ tend to have kids who are doing well in school, some with little support, some with a lot of support, which might blind you to the fact that the requirements for TJ are more rigorous than you think.

That said, I would prefer the GPA be a 3.75 and that Geometry was required by 8th grade with a pass advanced on the Algebra 1 SOL. I think it would help find students that are a better academic fit. You could adjust the math requirement for the schools that have fewer kids in Geometry in 8th grade.

Any kid considering TJ should be easily getting A’s in middle school without outside assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And froshmore admits do get a worse experience - one year less of being in an appropriately challenging environment is self-evidently a bad thing. That's why virtually every froshmore admit was a freshman reject - no one ever thinks "I'd rather go to my local hs all four years than TJ for all four years, but I'd rather go to TJ in 10th onwards than my local HS for all four years".

I don't know where you're getting your data but many froshmores either moved into an eligible county after the original application window or declined an acceptance offer for 9th grade and then changed their mind. It's hardly "virtually every" 10th grade admit.

OP, even when there was still a test as part of admission, the essay portion has always been about the applicant (child) demonstrating their thought process. Listing accomplishments is not going to earn them points, but explaining why they chose those activities and what they get out of them will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And froshmore admits do get a worse experience - one year less of being in an appropriately challenging environment is self-evidently a bad thing. That's why virtually every froshmore admit was a freshman reject - no one ever thinks "I'd rather go to my local hs all four years than TJ for all four years, but I'd rather go to TJ in 10th onwards than my local HS for all four years".

I don't know where you're getting your data but many froshmores either moved into an eligible county after the original application window or declined an acceptance offer for 9th grade and then changed their mind. It's hardly "virtually every" 10th grade admit.

OP, even when there was still a test as part of admission, the essay portion has always been about the applicant (child) demonstrating their thought process. Listing accomplishments is not going to earn them points, but explaining why they chose those activities and what they get out of them will.

If you decline 9th grade admission, you are not eligible to apply or get into TJ in 10th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And froshmore admits do get a worse experience - one year less of being in an appropriately challenging environment is self-evidently a bad thing. That's why virtually every froshmore admit was a freshman reject - no one ever thinks "I'd rather go to my local hs all four years than TJ for all four years, but I'd rather go to TJ in 10th onwards than my local HS for all four years".

I don't know where you're getting your data but many froshmores either moved into an eligible county after the original application window or declined an acceptance offer for 9th grade and then changed their mind. It's hardly "virtually every" 10th grade admit.

OP, even when there was still a test as part of admission, the essay portion has always been about the applicant (child) demonstrating their thought process. Listing accomplishments is not going to earn them points, but explaining why they chose those activities and what they get out of them will.

If you decline 9th grade admission, you are not eligible to apply or get into TJ in 10th grade.

This is correct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

Yes, they got rid of things that bias selection unfairly like teacher recs and test buying. It's strictly merit now.