Dropping AP Spanish

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he needs to take Spanish his junior yr, definitely. Whatever level would be appropriate. Colleges do not care or count what one has done/taken in middle school, even if received HS credit for it. It doesn’t matter. You need at least 3 yrs of foreign language, in high school, or through AP.

says who? this isn't logical. It is not just that definitely defies my personal anecdata, it is that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like it doesn't matter where the kid ends up which is ridiculous. AP's kid is a super high achiever. There is no universe where he will be punished for taking linear algebra over another year of Spanish.

Schools want well rounded students, not math robots. 2 yrs of Spanish in HS isn’t enough. Linear algebra isn’t going to set him apart from many of the other applicants that also took that, and have taken 3-4 yrs of foreign language.

He’s taken FIVE years of high school Spanish.

They don’t care about middle school language classes. Unless you’ve maxed out the courses available at your high school. They want to see at least 3 years of language in HIGH SCHOOL - 4 is better. Middle school language courses are NOT the rigor of high school ones.

This is nonsensical. Language is cumulative. If a kid does FL 1 & 2 in middle school & then does well in FL 3+ in high school, clearly the middle school courses were rigorous enough. It’s the same standards of learning (what the course must cover, at least in VA). You can’t do well in a language if you learned nothing your first few years

That’s like saying Algebra 1 in middle school doesn’t count. Math is also cumulative. Doing well in Algebra 2 proves Algebra 1 was sufficient

Of course the middle school class still counts in that it happened, but if you stop math at Honors Pre-Calc in 10th grade, and never take AP Calc or anything more advanced, (even though it is offered in your school in 11th), they are going to notice that. There is no good reason to stop a core class at Sophomore year if you've accelerated in it. Will it be a deal-breaker? Probably not, but it is never going to be a positive.

But that isn't what people are implying. At my high school, Honors Spanish 3 is the same class whether you are a freshman or a junior - they are literally mixed in the same class. Posters are acting like it looks worse to take Spanish 4 as a sophomore and then take other extremely high level classes in different subjects, than to take Spanish 4 as a senior and not take those high level classes.

This is illogical and cannot be true. Admissions officers are not this stupid.

And at our school Honors Pre-Calc also has sophomores, juniors and seniors mixed in the class. Is it ok to stop there if you're a sophomore and never take math again, because there were seniors in your class that graduated and stopped at Pre-Calc? No, of course not. It doesn't matter than you did 2 years of HS math in middle school. You are missing the point that Admissions officers want you to challenge yourself. If there are more advanced classes available to you in your personal accelerated track, they do not want you to stop Sophomore year. It is not a positive to stop. They may forgive it, they may not consider it to be that big of a deal, but it is not working in your favor.

[Anonymous]

Why would any kid take a foreign language in 8th grade to place out of the first level in 9th grade, if colleges only want to make sure that the kid takes four years in high school? Best to just take Spanish 1 in 9th grade, right?

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why people drop AP Spanish. If your kid goes to a school that has a language requirement, a 4 or 5 on the AP could allow them to waive out of that requirement. College language is way more demanding and faster-paced than high school language, so if it were me, I would encourage my kid (and did) to take language through the AP level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he already has 4 years of high school language credits (including 8th grade), and thinks the math class will be easier for him, it should be fine. Especially if math comes more naturally to him and he will be a STEM.

Most colleges only require three years anyway, but he should confirm with his top choices of schools that four years of language should be enough.

He has five years of high school Spanish (three of which were in middle school) all with As. He doesn’t have top choices yet but he has a 4.95 weighted GPA and got full marks in the PSAT so he could potentially be applying to very competitive schools so I want to make sure he understands whether this will have any impact on his applications.

Do middle school grades and credit count? I thought our counselor said no. My kid is in a DLI program since elementary school, so will take AP Spanish in 9th, and was told he still needs at least 2 more years of language credit after 9th to satisfy college requirements.

Depends on the district and the classes. Our district gives credit for high school credit for Spanish I in middle school, but the grade isn’t on transcript. But Alg I and above taken in middle school has both the grade and credit on high school transcript, same for English 9 and above taken in middle school. But I’ve been advised, colleges won’t accept that as high school work- they still want to see 4 yrs of core classes in grades 9-12, even if that means dual enrollment. I think language is the one where there is some wiggle room on the 4th yr

That lines up with what I was told regarding the DLI program: kid can take AP in 9th, plus 2 years of dual enrollment college credit langauge courses, or start a new language in 10th and do at least 2 years. Our counselor suggested if they have an AP score of 4 or better in one language plus 2 years in another, almost any college would be satisfied. But my kid is still in middle school so if anyone has experience I'd love to no more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he already has 4 years of high school language credits (including 8th grade), and thinks the math class will be easier for him, it should be fine. Especially if math comes more naturally to him and he will be a STEM.

Most colleges only require three years anyway, but he should confirm with his top choices of schools that four years of language should be enough.

He has five years of high school Spanish (three of which were in middle school) all with As. He doesn’t have top choices yet but he has a 4.95 weighted GPA and got full marks in the PSAT so he could potentially be applying to very competitive schools so I want to make sure he understands whether this will have any impact on his applications.

Do middle school grades and credit count? I thought our counselor said no. My kid is in a DLI program since elementary school, so will take AP Spanish in 9th, and was told he still needs at least 2 more years of language credit after 9th to satisfy college requirements.

Depends on the district and the classes. Our district gives credit for high school credit for Spanish I in middle school, but the grade isn’t on transcript. But Alg I and above taken in middle school has both the grade and credit on high school transcript, same for English 9 and above taken in middle school. But I’ve been advised, colleges won’t accept that as high school work- they still want to see 4 yrs of core classes in grades 9-12, even if that means dual enrollment. I think language is the one where there is some wiggle room on the 4th yr

That lines up with what I was told regarding the DLI program: kid can take AP in 9th, plus 2 years of dual enrollment college credit langauge courses, or start a new language in 10th and do at least 2 years. Our counselor suggested if they have an AP score of 4 or better in one language plus 2 years in another, almost any college would be satisfied. But my kid is still in middle school so if anyone has experience I'd love to no more.

In my kid’s immersion program, they take immersion 9 in 9th, AP Spanish lang in 10th, and AP Spanish lit in 11th. I don’t think they usually take a language in 12th (they could take advanced studies or something?), but surely after 2 AP foreign language classes, colleges are satisfied? My kid got a 5 on the AP Spanish lang exam (not at all uncommon among the immersion kids). Just started Spanish lit.

[Anonymous]

My kid has transferred schools in high school—BOTH college counseling offices say 3 years in high school is a must. Middle school classes don’t matter. Proficiency matters but not as much as getting 3 years.

For example, my son has a classmate who started in 9th from a French immersion school and he was a native speaker. Took AP French as a freshman got an A+ and a 5. Then took Spanish 1 and 2 as a sophomore/junior.

Elite colleges consider language a core class…so it needs to be taken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people drop AP Spanish. If your kid goes to a school that has a language requirement, a 4 or 5 on the AP could allow them to waive out of that requirement. College language is way more demanding and faster-paced than high school language, so if it were me, I would encourage my kid (and did) to take language through the AP level.

This OP!

Get a tutor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why people drop AP Spanish. If your kid goes to a school that has a language requirement, a 4 or 5 on the AP could allow them to waive out of that requirement. College language is way more demanding and faster-paced than high school language, so if it were me, I would encourage my kid (and did) to take language through the AP level.

This OP!

Get a tutor.

Agree, language requirements are waived and credit is given, by most colleges, waiver even at the Ivies, with a 4 or 5 on the AP.

[Anonymous]

In DC nearly all the Spanish immersion kids from Oyster take the AP Spanish test in 8th grade (with many 5s).

They have no requirement to take anymore language to graduate HS, but nearly all start over with another language.

I assume because they are advised to do this for college.

[Anonymous]

There is no one size fits all answer to the question of how many years of foreign lang. Depends on the rest of the transcript. Do most top schools recommend 4? Yes. Are students routinely admitted with less? Absolutely yes.

I have two kids at T10s who only had through level 3 foreign lang in high school, one STEM, one humanities.

Most engineering programs do not have a college foreign lang requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he needs to take Spanish his junior yr, definitely. Whatever level would be appropriate. Colleges do not care or count what one has done/taken in middle school, even if received HS credit for it. It doesn’t matter. You need at least 3 yrs of foreign language, in high school, or through AP.

says who? this isn't logical. It is not just that definitely defies my personal anecdata, it is that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like it doesn't matter where the kid ends up which is ridiculous. AP's kid is a super high achiever. There is no universe where he will be punished for taking linear algebra over another year of Spanish.

Schools want well rounded students, not math robots. 2 yrs of Spanish in HS isn’t enough. Linear algebra isn’t going to set him apart from many of the other applicants that also took that, and have taken 3-4 yrs of foreign language.

He’s taken FIVE years of high school Spanish.

They don’t care about middle school language classes. Unless you’ve maxed out the courses available at your high school. They want to see at least 3 years of language in HIGH SCHOOL - 4 is better. Middle school language courses are NOT the rigor of high school ones.

Can you be more specific? What I’m not seeing in this discussion is anyone saying “my kid stopped before AP and that lost them the chance to get into/apply to X school that they otherwise wanted to attend”. What I am seeing is the reverse. What school specifically prohibits you from attending if you stopped your foreign language before AP but otherwise maxed out?

I think UVA school of Arts and Sciences is known for this. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they expect you to take the AP foreign language capstone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he needs to take Spanish his junior yr, definitely. Whatever level would be appropriate. Colleges do not care or count what one has done/taken in middle school, even if received HS credit for it. It doesn’t matter. You need at least 3 yrs of foreign language, in high school, or through AP.

says who? this isn't logical. It is not just that definitely defies my personal anecdata, it is that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like it doesn't matter where the kid ends up which is ridiculous. AP's kid is a super high achiever. There is no universe where he will be punished for taking linear algebra over another year of Spanish.

Schools want well rounded students, not math robots. 2 yrs of Spanish in HS isn’t enough. Linear algebra isn’t going to set him apart from many of the other applicants that also took that, and have taken 3-4 yrs of foreign language.

He’s taken FIVE years of high school Spanish.

They don’t care about middle school language classes. Unless you’ve maxed out the courses available at your high school. They want to see at least 3 years of language in HIGH SCHOOL - 4 is better. Middle school language courses are NOT the rigor of high school ones.

This is nonsensical. Language is cumulative. If a kid does FL 1 & 2 in middle school & then does well in FL 3+ in high school, clearly the middle school courses were rigorous enough. It’s the same standards of learning (what the course must cover, at least in VA). You can’t do well in a language if you learned nothing your first few years

That’s like saying Algebra 1 in middle school doesn’t count. Math is also cumulative. Doing well in Algebra 2 proves Algebra 1 was sufficient

Of course the middle school class still counts in that it happened, but if you stop math at Honors Pre-Calc in 10th grade, and never take AP Calc or anything more advanced, (even though it is offered in your school in 11th), they are going to notice that. There is no good reason to stop a core class at Sophomore year if you've accelerated in it. Will it be a deal-breaker? Probably not, but it is never going to be a positive.

But that isn't what people are implying. At my high school, Honors Spanish 3 is the same class whether you are a freshman or a junior - they are literally mixed in the same class. Posters are acting like it looks worse to take Spanish 4 as a sophomore and then take other extremely high level classes in different subjects, than to take Spanish 4 as a senior and not take those high level classes.

This is illogical and cannot be true. Admissions officers are not this stupid.

And at our school Honors Pre-Calc also has sophomores, juniors and seniors mixed in the class. Is it ok to stop there if you're a sophomore and never take math again, because there were seniors in your class that graduated and stopped at Pre-Calc? No, of course not. It doesn't matter than you did 2 years of HS math in middle school. You are missing the point that Admissions officers want you to challenge yourself. If there are more advanced classes available to you in your personal accelerated track, they do not want you to stop Sophomore year. It is not a positive to stop. They may forgive it, they may not consider it to be that big of a deal, but it is not working in your favor.

Sigh. This is not equivalent. Any competitive college wants to see Calculus. Stopping at Pre-Calculus is not reaching the LEVEL college admission officers want to see. On the other hand, there is not one college in the country that states any expectation of a level of Spanish above SPanish 4. Not one. Sure, they'll be impressed to see AP Spanish but more so than to see a future stem student taking Linear Algebra? Impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he already has 4 years of high school language credits (including 8th grade), and thinks the math class will be easier for him, it should be fine. Especially if math comes more naturally to him and he will be a STEM.

Most colleges only require three years anyway, but he should confirm with his top choices of schools that four years of language should be enough.

He has five years of high school Spanish (three of which were in middle school) all with As. He doesn’t have top choices yet but he has a 4.95 weighted GPA and got full marks in the PSAT so he could potentially be applying to very competitive schools so I want to make sure he understands whether this will have any impact on his applications.

Do middle school grades and credit count? I thought our counselor said no. My kid is in a DLI program since elementary school, so will take AP Spanish in 9th, and was told he still needs at least 2 more years of language credit after 9th to satisfy college requirements.

Depends on the district and the classes. Our district gives credit for high school credit for Spanish I in middle school, but the grade isn’t on transcript. But Alg I and above taken in middle school has both the grade and credit on high school transcript, same for English 9 and above taken in middle school. But I’ve been advised, colleges won’t accept that as high school work- they still want to see 4 yrs of core classes in grades 9-12, even if that means dual enrollment. I think language is the one where there is some wiggle room on the 4th yr

That lines up with what I was told regarding the DLI program: kid can take AP in 9th, plus 2 years of dual enrollment college credit langauge courses, or start a new language in 10th and do at least 2 years. Our counselor suggested if they have an AP score of 4 or better in one language plus 2 years in another, almost any college would be satisfied. But my kid is still in middle school so if anyone has experience I'd love to no more.

In my kid’s immersion program, they take immersion 9 in 9th, AP Spanish lang in 10th, and AP Spanish lit in 11th. I don’t think they usually take a language in 12th (they could take advanced studies or something?), but surely after 2 AP foreign language classes, colleges are satisfied? My kid got a 5 on the AP Spanish lang exam (not at all uncommon among the immersion kids). Just started Spanish lit.

Nice to hear. I'm in a different district - they push the DLI kids to take the AP language test in 9th grade, then offer dual enrollment college classes. Given that colleges require 3 years of a language even if they take the AP class in 9th grade, I might hold back my student a year or two before they take the AP class so they're in a better position to get a 5. There's no benefit to rushing to take the AP language test in 9th grade if your kid isn't ready, absolutely, given the 3-year high school language requirement, unless I'm missing something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he already has 4 years of high school language credits (including 8th grade), and thinks the math class will be easier for him, it should be fine. Especially if math comes more naturally to him and he will be a STEM.

Most colleges only require three years anyway, but he should confirm with his top choices of schools that four years of language should be enough.

He has five years of high school Spanish (three of which were in middle school) all with As. He doesn’t have top choices yet but he has a 4.95 weighted GPA and got full marks in the PSAT so he could potentially be applying to very competitive schools so I want to make sure he understands whether this will have any impact on his applications.

Do middle school grades and credit count? I thought our counselor said no. My kid is in a DLI program since elementary school, so will take AP Spanish in 9th, and was told he still needs at least 2 more years of language credit after 9th to satisfy college requirements.

Depends on the district and the classes. Our district gives credit for high school credit for Spanish I in middle school, but the grade isn’t on transcript. But Alg I and above taken in middle school has both the grade and credit on high school transcript, same for English 9 and above taken in middle school. But I’ve been advised, colleges won’t accept that as high school work- they still want to see 4 yrs of core classes in grades 9-12, even if that means dual enrollment. I think language is the one where there is some wiggle room on the 4th yr

That lines up with what I was told regarding the DLI program: kid can take AP in 9th, plus 2 years of dual enrollment college credit langauge courses, or start a new language in 10th and do at least 2 years. Our counselor suggested if they have an AP score of 4 or better in one language plus 2 years in another, almost any college would be satisfied. But my kid is still in middle school so if anyone has experience I'd love to no more.

In my kid’s immersion program, they take immersion 9 in 9th, AP Spanish lang in 10th, and AP Spanish lit in 11th. I don’t think they usually take a language in 12th (they could take advanced studies or something?), but surely after 2 AP foreign language classes, colleges are satisfied? My kid got a 5 on the AP Spanish lang exam (not at all uncommon among the immersion kids). Just started Spanish lit.

Nice to hear. I'm in a different district - they push the DLI kids to take the AP language test in 9th grade, then offer dual enrollment college classes. Given that colleges require 3 years of a language even if they take the AP class in 9th grade, I might hold back my student a year or two before they take the AP class so they're in a better position to get a 5. There's no benefit to rushing to take the AP language test in 9th grade if your kid isn't ready, absolutely, given the 3-year high school language requirement, unless I'm missing something.

My immersion kid is planning to take the AP class early to make room in their schedule for more STEM electives. I don't think any respected college will knock you for finishing with the AP capstone, particularly if some effort is made to maintain the language through summer immersion activities or other volunteer work in that language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he needs to take Spanish his junior yr, definitely. Whatever level would be appropriate. Colleges do not care or count what one has done/taken in middle school, even if received HS credit for it. It doesn’t matter. You need at least 3 yrs of foreign language, in high school, or through AP.

says who? this isn't logical. It is not just that definitely defies my personal anecdata, it is that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like it doesn't matter where the kid ends up which is ridiculous. AP's kid is a super high achiever. There is no universe where he will be punished for taking linear algebra over another year of Spanish.

Schools want well rounded students, not math robots. 2 yrs of Spanish in HS isn’t enough. Linear algebra isn’t going to set him apart from many of the other applicants that also took that, and have taken 3-4 yrs of foreign language.

He’s taken FIVE years of high school Spanish.

They don’t care about middle school language classes. Unless you’ve maxed out the courses available at your high school. They want to see at least 3 years of language in HIGH SCHOOL - 4 is better. Middle school language courses are NOT the rigor of high school ones.

This is nonsensical. Language is cumulative. If a kid does FL 1 & 2 in middle school & then does well in FL 3+ in high school, clearly the middle school courses were rigorous enough. It’s the same standards of learning (what the course must cover, at least in VA). You can’t do well in a language if you learned nothing your first few years

That’s like saying Algebra 1 in middle school doesn’t count. Math is also cumulative. Doing well in Algebra 2 proves Algebra 1 was sufficient

Of course the middle school class still counts in that it happened, but if you stop math at Honors Pre-Calc in 10th grade, and never take AP Calc or anything more advanced, (even though it is offered in your school in 11th), they are going to notice that. There is no good reason to stop a core class at Sophomore year if you've accelerated in it. Will it be a deal-breaker? Probably not, but it is never going to be a positive.

But that isn't what people are implying. At my high school, Honors Spanish 3 is the same class whether you are a freshman or a junior - they are literally mixed in the same class. Posters are acting like it looks worse to take Spanish 4 as a sophomore and then take other extremely high level classes in different subjects, than to take Spanish 4 as a senior and not take those high level classes.

This is illogical and cannot be true. Admissions officers are not this stupid.

And at our school Honors Pre-Calc also has sophomores, juniors and seniors mixed in the class. Is it ok to stop there if you're a sophomore and never take math again, because there were seniors in your class that graduated and stopped at Pre-Calc? No, of course not. It doesn't matter than you did 2 years of HS math in middle school. You are missing the point that Admissions officers want you to challenge yourself. If there are more advanced classes available to you in your personal accelerated track, they do not want you to stop Sophomore year. It is not a positive to stop. They may forgive it, they may not consider it to be that big of a deal, but it is not working in your favor.

Sigh. This is not equivalent. Any competitive college wants to see Calculus. Stopping at Pre-Calculus is not reaching the LEVEL college admission officers want to see. On the other hand, there is not one college in the country that states any expectation of a level of Spanish above SPanish 4. Not one. Sure, they'll be impressed to see AP Spanish but more so than to see a future stem student taking Linear Algebra? Impossible.

Some kids take AP calc in 9th or 10th grade. They still need to take math in 11th and 12th grade. No advisor would tell them to just stop taking math after calc if they are accelerated enough to take it early,