County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

+1 mostly. More students definitely could benefit from these programs. However, a major part of why the magnets are so successful is because of their small and concentrated size. But, if MCPS wants to provide equitable opportunities for more students, this would a step in the right direction.

TJ is more successful. It’s ok to expand the Blair program and not lose the advantage.

They are successful in a different way. They have a large program that can support a large student body not just from Fairfax, but other neighboring counties as well. They are able to provide accelerated programs for more people, and that's great for them. I'm partially in support of creating another TJ. I think if MCPS's goal were to provide more access, it would be a much preferred option that regional programs.

However, I just want to point out the differences. Blair magnet has electives like Quantum Mechanics, Mathmatical Physics, Discrete mathematics, Neuroscience, and more. These are likely not found anywhere else in the nation. In addition, Blair magnet's academic teams are stronger than TJ from recent year results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

It’s hard to integrate college class time to high school schedule. The kids would also lose time in interactions with other peers in their high schools. It’s not desirable high school experience.

+1 Exactly what I was saying. Dual enrollment does not come close to what the magnets offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

Well, you'd have to hire a lot more teachers with expansion, too. The difference is the regional programs would offer the ability for students to have a shorter commute. But as someone else said upthread, 6 regions is probably overkill; maybe 4 or even 2-3 would work better.

Probably a lot less teachers than splitting into 6 programs. If they sincerely want to expand magnet opportunities, they should expand existing programs and add one program somewhere. That’s it.

I agree that a more incremental approach would be better. Add seats to existing programs, open up additional programs one at a time, then re-evaluate. This major overhaul all at once has the potential to be a disaster.

+1 that's a better idea. Crown and Woodward are opening soon, which will leave a bit more room at RM and Blair (I assume, since I'm not as familiar with the Woodward boundary changes). Expand the seats there as a starting point. Teachers need more than a few weeks of training to teach the magnet level content. Then expand to one more school for a secondary county wide magnet.

You could split the regions:

RMIB and Blair for south MoCo for IB magnet; pick some HS in the upper county for IB county magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

Well, you'd have to hire a lot more teachers with expansion, too. The difference is the regional programs would offer the ability for students to have a shorter commute. But as someone else said upthread, 6 regions is probably overkill; maybe 4 or even 2-3 would work better.

Probably a lot less teachers than splitting into 6 programs. If they sincerely want to expand magnet opportunities, they should expand existing programs and add one program somewhere. That’s it.

I agree that a more incremental approach would be better. Add seats to existing programs, open up additional programs one at a time, then re-evaluate. This major overhaul all at once has the potential to be a disaster.

+1 that's a better idea. Crown and Woodward are opening soon, which will leave a bit more room at RM and Blair (I assume, since I'm not as familiar with the Woodward boundary changes). Expand the seats there as a starting point. Teachers need more than a few weeks of training to teach the magnet level content. Then expand to one more school for a secondary county wide magnet.

You could split the regions:

RMIB and Blair for south MoCo for IB magnet; pick some HS in the upper county for IB county magnet.

There is already Poolesville for upper county magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

Good question - losing the best of the best educators in a program that currently does work. It’s like the board needs to hear directly from these top 2 programs to ensure they will be able to continue at their top level and how they can help ensure the other programs can reach this level. If yes, then all for it. It’s just not as simple as people think.

Why would there be a loss of the educators? I'm assuming the current Blair magnets would become the regional magnets for the DCC? So yes, students in the rest of the county would lose access to those particular teachers, but not the system as a whole.

You need to look at the presentation. Not DCC (would not exist, and neither would the consortium model of school "choice," only regional magnet application). The regional grouping would be Blair, Northwood, Einstein, BCC & Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

Well, you'd have to hire a lot more teachers with expansion, too. The difference is the regional programs would offer the ability for students to have a shorter commute. But as someone else said upthread, 6 regions is probably overkill; maybe 4 or even 2-3 would work better.

Probably a lot less teachers than splitting into 6 programs. If they sincerely want to expand magnet opportunities, they should expand existing programs and add one program somewhere. That’s it.

I agree that a more incremental approach would be better. Add seats to existing programs, open up additional programs one at a time, then re-evaluate. This major overhaul all at once has the potential to be a disaster.

+1 that's a better idea. Crown and Woodward are opening soon, which will leave a bit more room at RM and Blair (I assume, since I'm not as familiar with the Woodward boundary changes). Expand the seats there as a starting point. Teachers need more than a few weeks of training to teach the magnet level content. Then expand to one more school for a secondary county wide magnet.

You could split the regions:

RMIB and Blair for south MoCo for IB magnet; pick some HS in the upper county for IB county magnet.

Expanding it would help but that doesn't help the kids not interested in it or who are not accepted. The problem with the magnet is its a more generalized STEM program, which is great, but not for kids who want other STEM. The Wheaton Engineering and other programs should be expanded as well.

There are some very smart and capable teachers. Some of the magnet isn't any different than what they are already teaching but it's at a faster pace to catch them up, especially in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

Good question - losing the best of the best educators in a program that currently does work. It’s like the board needs to hear directly from these top 2 programs to ensure they will be able to continue at their top level and how they can help ensure the other programs can reach this level. If yes, then all for it. It’s just not as simple as people think.

Why would there be a loss of the educators? I'm assuming the current Blair magnets would become the regional magnets for the DCC? So yes, students in the rest of the county would lose access to those particular teachers, but not the system as a whole.

You need to look at the presentation. Not DCC (would not exist, and neither would the consortium model of school "choice," only regional magnet application). The regional grouping would be Blair, Northwood, Einstein, BCC & Whitman.

Whitman is no where close so this grouping makes zero sense. I wouldn't want my kids being bussed to Whitman. If we wanted Whitman, we'd move there. Same with BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

It’s hard to integrate college class time to high school schedule. The kids would also lose time in interactions with other peers in their high schools. It’s not desirable high school experience.

+1 Exactly what I was saying. Dual enrollment does not come close to what the magnets offer.

Dual enrollment is very different. The magnets are very specialized and not all kids want it. Dual enrollment is doable in 12, especially if a parent provides a car (we were told to buy a car for our child - not happening) and do dual enrollment but its very difficult if you still need to get in your graduation requirements in 11th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

Great. Let's least-common-denominator everything at all the schools, only providing that which strictly is required by law. No special programs. No advanced classes at some schools but not others. Minimal electives to fill out a schedule, and only the cheapest to implement. Ditto sports and other extracurriculars. It'll save on taxes!

/sarcasm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

The courses at Blair are designed specifically for the student body and are incredibly unique. They are not just boring professor lecture style courses with more advanced material. The format is very different, and UMD is NOT a replacement.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/quote/15/30315840.page

If you read upstream to page 2 (link above), you will notice a big list of what Blair provides that is incredibly unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

Good question - losing the best of the best educators in a program that currently does work. It’s like the board needs to hear directly from these top 2 programs to ensure they will be able to continue at their top level and how they can help ensure the other programs can reach this level. If yes, then all for it. It’s just not as simple as people think.

Why would there be a loss of the educators? I'm assuming the current Blair magnets would become the regional magnets for the DCC? So yes, students in the rest of the county would lose access to those particular teachers, but not the system as a whole.

You need to look at the presentation. Not DCC (would not exist, and neither would the consortium model of school "choice," only regional magnet application). The regional grouping would be Blair, Northwood, Einstein, BCC & Whitman.

Whitman is no where close so this grouping makes zero sense. I wouldn't want my kids being bussed to Whitman. If we wanted Whitman, we'd move there. Same with BCC.

It isn't mandatory. If you want to attend your home school, I'm confident that will still be an option. My kids are in-bounds for Blair, and would likely attend no matter what. But the bus ride to B-CC is only slightly longer, and the Purple Line will make it a 10 minute trip. If B-CC has a program my kids would like to attend, and if they are admitted, it would not be a major burden to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

And you think getting to MC campuses is a trek...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

I agree with this. A “watered down” regional program that brings in more kids is preferable in my mind. The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ.

You seem to imply that I or other families of kids in these programs are well off enough to just pack up our bags one day and move across the river. Why the animosity? Do our kids not deserve opportunities?

It’s not animosity. It’s recognition that everyone can’t get everything they want or think they deserve in public school. There are limited resources and you are pretty astounding in your demands that MCPS cater to your needs.

"The super geniuses with extremely motivated families can find other ways to enrich or move to Fairfax and try for TJ"

Wow. "not animosity." If MCPS truly cannot cater to our needs, then so be it. That's a different issue. You were suggesting that we don't even belong in Montgomery County. "move to fairfax." Just because our kids may be more academic does not mean our financial situation is any better. Why the assumption? It says a lot about you.