NCAP and Machine pricing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. My RMSC 10yo is in the water 5 days per week for a total of 7 hours. But admittedly probably won't increase practice time again until age 12. There's a meet a month, except for double-ups around December and March.

Our 10yo (turning 11 soon) is at 5 days/8.5h.

[Anonymous]

Some of the clubs have “advanced” options for 10U, that’s why some of the 10U groups are only 2-3 times a week and some are 4-5. No club though is forcing 10Us to swim 5x a week. You as the parent can opt for the regular 10U group if that’s what you choose.

[Anonymous]

While it may seem like we have steered from OP’s questions, these details about hours, location/proximity, number of coaches, which coaches coach which practice groups, length of the contract, etc should be helpful to answer the questions on cost/value, which may be both Machine or NCAP location-specific, and may be hidden in the details.

OP, if you share your location, we might be able to more specifically address your questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. My RMSC 10yo is in the water 5 days per week for a total of 7 hours. But admittedly probably won't increase practice time again until age 12. There's a meet a month, except for double-ups around December and March.

Yes, RMSC has its 10U swimmers in the water far far more than most (maybe all) of the Virginia NCAP sites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

This really isn’t that much different than most of the other NCAP sites for the 10Us. My kid swam 3 days a week for 1 hour at age 9, and added a 4th day most weeks when they turned 10 (4 wasn’t required though). Some of the other sites do have options for the fast 11-12s to swim more though, and probably not coincidentally also have some very fast kids in that age group.

4 days, 6-8 h/week for 10U is normal. All high performing 10Us around us (AAA+) are in the water at least 5 days a week, 8-10 hours. 3 hours per week is unheard of.

I guess now it’s “heard of”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

This really isn’t that much different than most of the other NCAP sites for the 10Us. My kid swam 3 days a week for 1 hour at age 9, and added a 4th day most weeks when they turned 10 (4 wasn’t required though). Some of the other sites do have options for the fast 11-12s to swim more though, and probably not coincidentally also have some very fast kids in that age group.

It’s surprising that people think NCAP swims their 10Us so many hours. We’ve found that our swimmers are in the water far less (3 hours/week) than other clubs. Maybe some NCAP sites require more?

In my experience, it is RMSC and York that encourage/require their top 10U swimmers to be in the water 4-5 days/week for 1.25-1.5 hours per practice. To that end, there is little surprise at how talented/fast the 10Us are from those programs. OCCS also has a 4 day option. That option isn’t even available for 10Us at several NCAP sites, as discussed above.

Machine has tremendous coaches and, all things being equal, I would have gone there if it worked for us. Machine offered a 4 day per week program to our swimmer, but we could not commit to that many days and hours at the time of day and location they were offering. So we went with NCAP. (Unrelated to this thread, but I wonder if the NCAP and other club swimmers who jump from 3 hours/week to 5-8 hours per week at age 11/12 make big improvements, especially since this occurs in conjunction with female puberty.)

All said, OP has a BB swimmer, so I would imagine there are practice groups even at these “more serious” clubs that allow less serious swimmers to go fewer days. It is a misnomer, however, to draw a blanket conclusion that the BB swimmers get less experienced/worse coaches than the A+ swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

This really isn’t that much different than most of the other NCAP sites for the 10Us. My kid swam 3 days a week for 1 hour at age 9, and added a 4th day most weeks when they turned 10 (4 wasn’t required though). Some of the other sites do have options for the fast 11-12s to swim more though, and probably not coincidentally also have some very fast kids in that age group.

It’s surprising that people think NCAP swims their 10Us so many hours. We’ve found that our swimmers are in the water far less (3 hours/week) than other clubs. Maybe some NCAP sites require more?

In my experience, it is RMSC and York that encourage/require their top 10U swimmers to be in the water 4-5 days/week for 1.25-1.5 hours per practice. To that end, there is little surprise at how talented/fast the 10Us are from those programs. OCCS also has a 4 day option. That option isn’t even available for 10Us at several NCAP sites, as discussed above.

Machine has tremendous coaches and, all things being equal, I would have gone there if it worked for us. Machine offered a 4 day per week program to our swimmer, but we could not commit to that many days and hours at the time of day and location they were offering. So we went with NCAP. (Unrelated to this thread, but I wonder if the NCAP and other club swimmers who jump from 3 hours/week to 5-8 hours per week at age 11/12 make big improvements, especially since this occurs in conjunction with female puberty.)

All said, OP has a BB swimmer, so I would imagine there are practice groups even at these “more serious” clubs that allow less serious swimmers to go fewer days. It is a misnomer, however, to draw a blanket conclusion that the BB swimmers get less experienced/worse coaches than the A+ swimmers.

I’m the parent of an NCAP swimmer who wasn’t in the water more than 4 hours a week when they were 10. Their best time in their very best event as a 10 year old was AAA. As a 12 year old they had more than 1 AAAA and more than a full meet worth of events that were at least AAA. A growth spurt (although my kid is not really tall), more intense training and coaching were the biggest contributors to that. On the coaching, I my swimmer had a much better coach when they moved to the next group at 11, and there is also a great coach for the next group at 13. The coaching abilities are not even amongst the groups. The better more experienced coaches are with the older/high level swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at NCAP-Burke, and your child would have the same coaches the other “high achieving” coaches have until Gold I, which is the national team. All of the coaches are equally good and spread throughout the different practice groups. Also, NCAP-Burke is an automatic 1 year contract, which includes 4 days of long course during June-first week in August. Some kids don’t do LC, but the family pays regardless. Finally, our kids get a Burke Racquet and Swim Club membership with our dues. It’s not a super nice gym, but it does the trick for the older kids who want to work out. The 12Us can also go up and reserve a swim lane to practice turns, technique, etc.

NCAP-Burke may be an outlier because it is the only club that uses BRSC. For our swimmers, we were sold on NCAP-Burke because
— the practice times were at a reasonable time in the evening and not early in the morning unless the family wanted early in the morning (also, kids can combine, eg, one morning and two evenings if needed to do other activities at night),
— the coaches were the same regardless if the child is AAA or BB until Gold I (the practice groups are different depending on the level, but the coaches are spread out),
— they have a full year program with the same coaches in summer,
— they don’t push kids into swimming a lot of hours per week before age 11 (despite what others may think, NCAP-Burke’s high performing 10Us practice only 3 total hours per week, which is less than other clubs nearby, eg, Makos (over an hour per practice) and Machine (over an hour per practice and 4 days per week))
— It is 5 minutes from our house
— my kids can go to the same place at a very similar time
— my kids get to swim with other kids from school/neighborhood/summer league

Anonymous wrote:That's hard to believe

It’s true though. At NCAP-Burke, Bronze II (ages 9-12) practice M/W/F 5:30-6:30 pm or M/W/F 6:30-7:30 am. And only a very small handful (like 6-10 kids total) move to Bronze I (4-5 days/week, 1.25 hours each) at 11-12. The rest of the 9-12 year olds stay in M/W/F 3 hours/week until 13. And 8Us (Bronze III) are only allowed to swim T/Th 5:30-6:30 pm. No exceptions.

This really isn’t that much different than most of the other NCAP sites for the 10Us. My kid swam 3 days a week for 1 hour at age 9, and added a 4th day most weeks when they turned 10 (4 wasn’t required though). Some of the other sites do have options for the fast 11-12s to swim more though, and probably not coincidentally also have some very fast kids in that age group.

It’s surprising that people think NCAP swims their 10Us so many hours. We’ve found that our swimmers are in the water far less (3 hours/week) than other clubs. Maybe some NCAP sites require more?

In my experience, it is RMSC and York that encourage/require their top 10U swimmers to be in the water 4-5 days/week for 1.25-1.5 hours per practice. To that end, there is little surprise at how talented/fast the 10Us are from those programs. OCCS also has a 4 day option. That option isn’t even available for 10Us at several NCAP sites, as discussed above.

Machine has tremendous coaches and, all things being equal, I would have gone there if it worked for us. Machine offered a 4 day per week program to our swimmer, but we could not commit to that many days and hours at the time of day and location they were offering. So we went with NCAP. (Unrelated to this thread, but I wonder if the NCAP and other club swimmers who jump from 3 hours/week to 5-8 hours per week at age 11/12 make big improvements, especially since this occurs in conjunction with female puberty.)

All said, OP has a BB swimmer, so I would imagine there are practice groups even at these “more serious” clubs that allow less serious swimmers to go fewer days. It is a misnomer, however, to draw a blanket conclusion that the BB swimmers get less experienced/worse coaches than the A+ swimmers.

There is only one practice site at York that encourages this and it’s the group that will leave for Hydra. The rest of us at York very highly value their flexibility and light practice requirements for 12 and unders. My 10 year old swam 2 hours a week for York at first and at 13 is doing 3 x 90 minute workouts a week. They really let you decide how serious you want to be about swim.

[Anonymous]

For comparison,

https://www.swimhydra.com/page/groups--schedules/2025-2026-schedule--fees

[Anonymous]

York does not have a 5 day per week option for 10&U. Maximum is 4 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For comparison,

https://www.swimhydra.com/page/groups--schedules/2025-2026-schedule--fees

Wow. That's super pricey for a team with no meet schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For comparison,

https://www.swimhydra.com/page/groups--schedules/2025-2026-schedule--fees

Wow. That's super pricey for a team with no meet schedule.

I had the same thought about the pricing. We are at a well regarded NCAP site and the group my high performing 13 year old is in, which offers 6 practices a week plus dry land, costs less than Hydra’s equivalent group. I also found it weird that the Senior groups are 11-18, that is a ridiculous spread of ages. The oldest swimmers my DC trains with are 15. An 11/12 year old shouldn’t be training with 17/18 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For comparison,

https://www.swimhydra.com/page/groups--schedules/2025-2026-schedule--fees

Wow. That's super pricey for a team with no meet schedule.

No it’s not. I’m not going to compare every practice apples to apples, but a representative example is:

The M/W/F 1.5 hours/practice group he used to coach was $3,160. The comparable Hydra group is M/W/F for 1.75 hours for $3,250. $90 an extra 45 mins of practice every week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:York does not have a 5 day per week option for 10&U. Maximum is 4 days.

This. The 10&u program is 3x per week with the option to add Saturday. The additional day is up to the family/swimmer and not required at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. My RMSC 10yo is in the water 5 days per week for a total of 7 hours. But admittedly probably won't increase practice time again until age 12. There's a meet a month, except for double-ups around December and March.

Yes, RMSC has its 10U swimmers in the water far far more than most (maybe all) of the Virginia NCAP sites.

What PP should’ve mentioned is that the required attendance is lower. They just opt to send their 10 year old 5x/week.