University of Virginia suspends tours that had come under fire for mentioning Thomas Jefferson's ties to slavery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

People aren’t touring UVA in order to fight racism.

Where should people fight racism?

At a college as a guide, you have about an hour to sell your school. Prospective students want to see the libraries, dorms, learn about the research opportunities and clubs. Learn what makes that school special and more details about the application process.

So you support the “woke agenda” but just not on college tours?

Or when I'm buying a house, or discussing my retirement with my financial advisor, or when I am discussing chemotherapy with my oncologist, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Ours required a moment of silence. People in the tour looked so confused.

Sounds like a few rogue student guides. Not our experience at all.

[Anonymous]

Being a University Guide used to be big deal.

Sounds like it's a bunch of woke malcontents now.

Good riddance.

[Anonymous]

They need to get a little away from Thomas Jefferson. Sure his vision for the school but it will actually be less racist if they start focusing on things that have happened recently. People who won awards for their work who teach or went there. Great facilities etc. Spending so much time talking about the past makes the school seem old fashioned actually

[Anonymous]

I was a Guide in the early 90s. As was my husband. His brother. His brother's wife. The Guardians of our children should anything happen to us. We've helped fund a scholarship at UVA to honor our Guide friend who past away. I could go on and on. The University Guide Service has meant a lot to me -- and still does.

This is a change a long time coming and while I am sad it came to this, it had to be done. This isn't some antiwokeness or whatever. I cannot stand Youngkin, but it isn't his fault. The UGS lost their way. They needed a change. I'm hopeful that there will be something better to come.

Most recently, the Admissions office has been training Guides to do the Admissions tours. We took our DS this spring and it was a good tour - I would have liked more history and such - but there's a lot to cram in and we thought she did a great job and I even got teary at the end (full disclosure, although we were randomly assigned a Guide after the admissions session, turns out we knew her. Her Dad had been a Guide with us, her Aunt was a Guide, her Uncle...you get the idea).

We were very hesitant to allow our kid to even go on a tour because the stories for years had been horrible - from both former Guide parents to friends with no previous ties to UVA. I've been following along some of the many issues on a Facebook site for Guide alums and have been so disheartened to see what had become of a very special (to me) organization. As one alum put it -- it used to be a group of students who were very interested in telling the stories of the University, and had a lot of fun along the way too. Now it's more of a social club which takes out their angst on unsuspecting tourists and perspective students.

It pains me to see what has happened but they needed to be stopped. Perhaps Admissions should be in charge of Admissions tours, but hopefuly the UGS will pull it together and be allowed once more to give Historical tours of the amazing UNESCO World Heritage side that I got to know and love.

[Anonymous]

We also had a really bad experience on the tour. Save the Thomas Jefferson Part for a movie about the history and spend the tour actually seeing and learning about the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a Guide in the early 90s. As was my husband. His brother. His brother's wife. The Guardians of our children should anything happen to us. We've helped fund a scholarship at UVA to honor our Guide friend who past away. I could go on and on. The University Guide Service has meant a lot to me -- and still does.

This is a change a long time coming and while I am sad it came to this, it had to be done. This isn't some antiwokeness or whatever. I cannot stand Youngkin, but it isn't his fault. The UGS lost their way. They needed a change. I'm hopeful that there will be something better to come.

Most recently, the Admissions office has been training Guides to do the Admissions tours. We took our DS this spring and it was a good tour - I would have liked more history and such - but there's a lot to cram in and we thought she did a great job and I even got teary at the end (full disclosure, although we were randomly assigned a Guide after the admissions session, turns out we knew her. Her Dad had been a Guide with us, her Aunt was a Guide, her Uncle...you get the idea).

We were very hesitant to allow our kid to even go on a tour because the stories for years had been horrible - from both former Guide parents to friends with no previous ties to UVA. I've been following along some of the many issues on a Facebook site for Guide alums and have been so disheartened to see what had become of a very special (to me) organization. As one alum put it -- it used to be a group of students who were very interested in telling the stories of the University, and had a lot of fun along the way too. Now it's more of a social club which takes out their angst on unsuspecting tourists and perspective students.

It pains me to see what has happened but they needed to be stopped. Perhaps Admissions should be in charge of Admissions tours, but hopefuly the UGS will pull it together and be allowed once more to give Historical tours of the amazing UNESCO World Heritage side that I got to know and love.

Isn't this one of the current criticisms? That it's become an exclusive club to be accepted, where "who you know" is more important than "what you know?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a Guide in the early 90s. As was my husband. His brother. His brother's wife. The Guardians of our children should anything happen to us. We've helped fund a scholarship at UVA to honor our Guide friend who past away. I could go on and on. The University Guide Service has meant a lot to me -- and still does.

This is a change a long time coming and while I am sad it came to this, it had to be done. This isn't some antiwokeness or whatever. I cannot stand Youngkin, but it isn't his fault. The UGS lost their way. They needed a change. I'm hopeful that there will be something better to come.

Most recently, the Admissions office has been training Guides to do the Admissions tours. We took our DS this spring and it was a good tour - I would have liked more history and such - but there's a lot to cram in and we thought she did a great job and I even got teary at the end (full disclosure, although we were randomly assigned a Guide after the admissions session, turns out we knew her. Her Dad had been a Guide with us, her Aunt was a Guide, her Uncle...you get the idea).

We were very hesitant to allow our kid to even go on a tour because the stories for years had been horrible - from both former Guide parents to friends with no previous ties to UVA. I've been following along some of the many issues on a Facebook site for Guide alums and have been so disheartened to see what had become of a very special (to me) organization. As one alum put it -- it used to be a group of students who were very interested in telling the stories of the University, and had a lot of fun along the way too. Now it's more of a social club which takes out their angst on unsuspecting tourists and perspective students.

It pains me to see what has happened but they needed to be stopped. Perhaps Admissions should be in charge of Admissions tours, but hopefuly the UGS will pull it together and be allowed once more to give Historical tours of the amazing UNESCO World Heritage side that I got to know and love.

Isn't this one of the current criticisms? That it's become an exclusive club to be accepted, where "who you know" is more important than "what you know?"

I was at UVA in the mid 90s and the Guides had an exclusive club vibe then too. In the 90s the school didn’t spend much time acknowledging the complicated nature of TJ owning slaves and Sally Hemmings in particular. I feel like much of the current climate is a direct result of people at The University (cough, cough) refusing to acknowledge any historical unpleasantness for so long. Maybe it’s tipped too far in one direction but this comes after decades and decades of being too far in the other direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Have you been an a UVa tour or gone to UVa? The entire place absolutely basks in its history. Like swims in it, like almost no other place. So for many it feels absolutely fake to talk about Jefferson and Edgar Allen Poe and all the hospital stuff and not mention slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought our UVA tour was awkward. We walked by one set of dorms, saw the inside of one building, then spent the rest of the time standing on the Lawn while the guide talked about how racist the community was. Learned very little about the school. The strangest tour we had.

You forgot the part where we had to acknowledge the indigenous people whose land we were trodding upon.

Why didn’t you want to acknowledge the land?

Because it’s meaningless, performative BS.

It’s triggering you to have a conversation.

Not PP but there was no conversation. We were all told to be silent.

Liberal democrat here and thinks this stuff is performative BS as well. Not just conservatives, FWIW.

+10000

[Anonymous]

The tours were awful. Every other comment was about slavery even when it didn’t have to be. Come back with a better tour.

For comparison, my DC and friend - both UVA caliber students enjoyed the JMU tour and info session significantly more bc they were joyful and hosted by happy people. There was a notable difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Jefferson Council and Youngkin’s appointees on the governing board are doing gar more damage than just this issue.

Yep this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not “mention,” it’s “entire focus” of the tour.

Big difference. I am sure the kinds of tours provided at Mount Vernon, which are comprehensive but not agenda- driven woke, will still be given at uva

The “agenda” of acknowledging slavery and fighting racism?

Right. Neither should appear on the agenda when one adult shows another adult the present-day features of a school.

Perseverating on Sally Hemmings 400 years ago does not "fight racism" today. And like PP said, "acknowledging" something from 400 years ago is performative bullshit, because there isn't a high school student in the northern hemisphere who is unaware that slavery occurred.

Have you been an a UVa tour or gone to UVa? The entire place absolutely basks in its history. Like swims in it, like almost no other place. So for many it feels absolutely fake to talk about Jefferson and Edgar Allen Poe and all the hospital stuff and not mention slavery.

"Mention" ?? and integrate the topic logically and succintly into a broader discussion of history? Sounds great. Focus on this subject during the limited tour hour to the exclusion of pragmatic topics that parents/teens actually need to know in order to select a college? No. Not the forum.

I posted above about Mount Vernon, which has similar history to contend with. IMO they get it just right, in a respectful and appropriately-sized way.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I are both alums getting ready to take our oldest kid on college tours this fall. She’s not super excited by the idea of UVA so far, but I think the woke version of the tour might actually make her more interested.