Anybody following the Karen Read trial in Boston?

[Anonymous]

There is no doubt she is guilty of hitting him. It is really her defense that leads to what could be over charging. If she had said yes I hit him and it is all a big mistake we would not be where we are.

Cops are bad. But too much here.

Also -- on that google search -- most likely not until later after the body found.

[Anonymous]

Listen to the Kate Casey recaps. This seems like a huge coverup and that he was beat up by other cops in the house.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been listening to the Emily D Baker recaps — I’m inclined to think she didn’t kill him or at least that there’s not good enough evidence to be sure she did. But mostly I feel terrible for those kids. Hope they get tons of therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious how people think things are going this week - such a wild trial. I have been busy so not up to date. What's the mood right now?

After yesterday’s testimony there’s no chance she’s found guilty. The testimony was appalling from a professional and moral perspective.

Until we get into the evidence from the medical examiner, I’m not willing to say if she did or didn’t have anything to do with it. But after yesterday I’d say it’s pretty clear the lead investigator gave ZERO efforts into closing out other possibilities and focused solely and completely on one person he has extreme bias against.

Curious what pp who was the prosecutor, defense attorney thinks after yesterday’s testimony.

DP. I'd like to know what the PP thinks now too.

Sorry I hadn’t seen this thread come back up.

Proctor is gross, but I worked with a lot of gross cops and reading the threads here, it’s obvious gross men like Proctor abound in this society and many women here are married to them or divorced from them so it’s not like he’s anything unusual.

Proctor’s misogyny and unprofessionalism (to be speaking with friends and sister about his open cases) aside, he followed the evidence where probable cause existed and I don’t see any fault in his investigation.

I feel for Adam Lally; it’s bringing up a lot of ugly memories of the bad cops I had to deal with as a prosecutor and on top of the dumbass investigative mistakes they often made- this is typical small town America fare - I had to deal with more than a few misogynistic cops who considered me a royal c*nt and more than a few times said so to my face. Police have a high rate of domestic violence in part because of the stress they experience but more so because it’s a profession that appeals to bullies and misogyny abounds.

I am keen to see what this jury does.

It’s clear to me from my experience and my common sense that Karen was wasted and very angry about the obvious fact that John was trying to break off the relationship and she acted on a terrible impulse while heavily intoxicated and he died from the injuries inflicted by her actions.

It seems logical to assume that some of the jurors will see this clearly, too - despite the smoke and mirrors thrown up by the sickening defense theory.

However given the totality of the evidence it’s more than likely the jury will hang and certainly possible they will acquit in an OJ jury like act of nullification.

There is zero compelling evidence that the defense theory has even a whiff of truth to it, but many unforced errors by the police involved have given it wings for sure.

At Good Samaritan that morning while she was still over the legal limit hours after the incident, Karen repeatedly told her father she had backed into something but couldn’t remember what. What I wonder is what it’s like inside her head, where she knows she is guilty all day long of killing her allegedly beloved boyfriend (who she repeatedly called her husband to first responders) yet she has engaged in this years long sick display of victim hood and wallowed in her fame/infamy and appears to have convinced herself at some level that she is really innocent. I bet she could keep a psychiatrist busy for a very long time working out the hot mess between those ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious how people think things are going this week - such a wild trial. I have been busy so not up to date. What's the mood right now?

After yesterday’s testimony there’s no chance she’s found guilty. The testimony was appalling from a professional and moral perspective.

Until we get into the evidence from the medical examiner, I’m not willing to say if she did or didn’t have anything to do with it. But after yesterday I’d say it’s pretty clear the lead investigator gave ZERO efforts into closing out other possibilities and focused solely and completely on one person he has extreme bias against.

Curious what pp who was the prosecutor, defense attorney thinks after yesterday’s testimony.

DP. I'd like to know what the PP thinks now too.

Sorry I hadn’t seen this thread come back up.

Proctor is gross, but I worked with a lot of gross cops and reading the threads here, it’s obvious gross men like Proctor abound in this society and many women here are married to them or divorced from them so it’s not like he’s anything unusual.

Proctor’s misogyny and unprofessionalism (to be speaking with friends and sister about his open cases) aside, he followed the evidence where probable cause existed and I don’t see any fault in his investigation.

I feel for Adam Lally; it’s bringing up a lot of ugly memories of the bad cops I had to deal with as a prosecutor and on top of the dumbass investigative mistakes they often made- this is typical small town America fare - I had to deal with more than a few misogynistic cops who considered me a royal c*nt and more than a few times said so to my face. Police have a high rate of domestic violence in part because of the stress they experience but more so because it’s a profession that appeals to bullies and misogyny abounds.

I am keen to see what this jury does.

It’s clear to me from my experience and my common sense that Karen was wasted and very angry about the obvious fact that John was trying to break off the relationship and she acted on a terrible impulse while heavily intoxicated and he died from the injuries inflicted by her actions.

It seems logical to assume that some of the jurors will see this clearly, too - despite the smoke and mirrors thrown up by the sickening defense theory.

However given the totality of the evidence it’s more than likely the jury will hang and certainly possible they will acquit in an OJ jury like act of nullification.

There is zero compelling evidence that the defense theory has even a whiff of truth to it, but many unforced errors by the police involved have given it wings for sure.

At Good Samaritan that morning while she was still over the legal limit hours after the incident, Karen repeatedly told her father she had backed into something but couldn’t remember what. What I wonder is what it’s like inside her head, where she knows she is guilty all day long of killing her allegedly beloved boyfriend (who she repeatedly called her husband to first responders) yet she has engaged in this years long sick display of victim hood and wallowed in her fame/infamy and appears to have convinced herself at some level that she is really innocent. I bet she could keep a psychiatrist busy for a very long time working out the hot mess between those ears.

Proctor is that you?

[Anonymous]

She probably hit him accidentally but there is enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through so I think she’ll be found not guilty or the jury will be hung. When are closing arguments scheduled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She probably hit him accidentally but there is enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through so I think she’ll be found not guilty or the jury will be hung. When are closing arguments scheduled?

Likely after the 4th. The judge will likely allow the defense’s dog bit expert/doctor/medical examiner/mass police officer (the woman’s background is amazingly on point) and she gave the state a week to find and prep a rebuttal witness.

[Anonymous]

I think it's likely she hit him accidentally. I don't think there's any evidence at all that she hit him on purpose and certainly not that she intended him to die.

What I wonder is if there's some chance the cops in the house saw him out there lying in the snow and didn't intervene for whatever reason. I don't think it's crazy that they didn't see him for the reasons the PP ex-P/ex-D said, but I also think it's totally possible that they *did*. So they're texting each other, the GF is searching to figure out either if he's already dead or if he'll still be alive in the morning. Maybe because they were high on illicit substances? Maybe because they drove home drunk and thought they'd get in trouble? Any chance they were dealing? Who knows.

I do agree that the smashing their phones could be evidence of unrelated criminal or otherwise embarrassing conduct and isn't evidence per se that they had anything to do with his death. I do wonder about the search though... First, I believe FBI over local cops 10/10 times over when it happened. Second, even if we imagine it happened right after the body was found. Why? If the theory at the time was that he died from trauma, why would she be searching for how long it takes to die from hypothermia? One reason would be if they did see him out there earlier, thought he was already dead and now learned he wasn't... or similar.

I am very curious about the Feds report in COD. If it's just that he died of hypothermia vice a car accident or if they actually say there was an entirely different COD. Is it possible he got into a fight with the cop buddies and then stormed off? Maybe they didn't realize he was out there still? I don't know.

[Anonymous]

^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

Backing up 60 feet at 24 mph is typical for you?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious why the prosecution wanted to enter those angry calls from KR to JO into evidence. Don't they show that she thought he was alive? Doesn't that = not guilty of murder? There has to be intent to leave him for dead for 2nd degree murder vs DUI. To me, those calls show that even IF she knew she hit him, she thought he was alive/fine. What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Also, now we see that KR left at 12:25. That means she hit him when a bunch of witnesses say they were outside/looking NOT 20 minutes later when no one was out there. I still think she probably hit him, but either it seemed like no big deal even to people who were there/watching (maybe he got back up initially?) OR they did see him go down & didn't render aid. It's very odd to think she could have done this big 3 point turn drop off with super fast/long reverse period and none of the people out there at the same time noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, now we see that KR left at 12:25. That means she hit him when a bunch of witnesses say they were outside/looking NOT 20 minutes later when no one was out there. I still think she probably hit him, but either it seemed like no big deal even to people who were there/watching (maybe he got back up initially?) OR they did see him go down & didn't render aid. It's very odd to think she could have done this big 3 point turn drop off with super fast/long reverse period and none of the people out there at the same time noticed.

I bet if she hit him, all of the ring camera from the neighbors wouldn't have conveniently been deleted!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

First, the prosecutor charged murder, not the cops. There is no evidence the DA is biased against Read and in Massachusetts the degree of murder with which she is charged doesn’t require a showing that she intended to kill him. All that is required is to show that she acted with a degree of recklessness that could result in death, and I think (former prosecutor here) that the state is making that case given her BAC and the data from her car that shows she reversed at a high rate of speed into the area where he was standing after existing her vehicle, most likely following a heated argument.

The voicemails show the level of emotional lability Read was exhibiting while driving and afterward with a BAC 2-3x the legal limit. They also show that her anger at O’Keefe, which was exhibited in text messages, Facebook messenger messages, and frantic repeated attempts to call him all day had continued to escalate after their hours out drinking and culminated in this reckless murderous act and her continued raging at him by voicemails and dozens upon dozens of phone calls attempting to reach him so she could scream at him some more.

No, she didn’t premeditate his killing. No, she likely didn’t intend it either. But she acted out of drunken rage and probably thought she was showing him what’s what by knocking him on his ass or even just scaring him with a close drive by as he stood there - maybe after he told her he was DONE with her and maybe flipping her off as she drove away. Her act was extremely reckless and it killed John - second degree murder under Massachusetts law.

It’s not overcharged based on the evidence. If you excised the whole BS defense theory from the equation and just looked at the facts established by the actual evidence, it is outrageous how she acted. She’s a murdering drunken drama queen who probably suffers borderline personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

And honestly, whatever you think of cops - I’ve worked with them as closely as anyone and some of them disgusted me but some of them exhibited great heroism and integrity, so I think they’re like all of the rest of us they just have more power - it’s awful to suggest that the folks in that house, a few cops and mostly a bunch of people who loved John O’Keefe and his kids, would have left him out there to die knowing he was lying in the snow incapacitated.

The ugliness around this case is just sickening to me.