WashPost: one US college closing per week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

I agree HPU will probably decline at some point in the near future. My point is that many different schools have trouble on the horizon. State U's in population declining states. Low status privates like HPU definitely will have decreased enrollment even though it is in a growing part of the country.

Union has encountered some problems with enrollment: https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/union-college-given-negative-outlook-credit-18684810.php

This isn't surprising given that it is a part of the country that has declining population and isn't considered elite. A lot of NE and Midwest schools are going to run into this problem even slightly more prestigious ones like Colgate or Hamilton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Notice nearly all the colleges listed in the article no one has ever heard off. Also, the majority of schools closing are for-profit universities, which in general are unsavory.

Yes, a few small colleges are closing due to low enrollment.

Meanwhile, other schools have opened up, like UC Merced with over 8,000 students, Nevada State College with 4,000 students, Georgia Gwinnett College with over 10,000 students.

All those gains in new student spaces nearly make up (if no totally make up) for all the spaces lost when these tiny colleges shut down.

18 years old. PRimarily for students in the San Joquin Valley. It's a state school. We're talking (and the article is talking about) LACs that are financially insolvent. Merced will be kept afloat by the Cal taxpayers. In fact, it was the passage of Prop 230 that allowed for it to be built because its construction was financed by state bonds. Privates don't have that luxury of falling back onto the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
University of Arizona has a quarter-billion dollar shortfall.

This was a unique case -- the CFO messed up on some calculations (quite a big mess-up), not quite a systemic issue.

https://apnews.com/article/tucson-embattled-university-president-financial-crisis-8e707f491cf80abdfc25a4f1e34cff1b

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Honestly, that's not very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Not at all with the way they are expanding. Not to mention they overspend on poorly targeted expensive mailers.
Signed mom of kid with no interest in HPU but bins full of duplicate glossy brochures.

Honestly, that's not very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

For a school with that many students, High Point's endowment is next to nothing. It should be at least five times that size, preferably ten times that size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
University of Arizona has a quarter-billion dollar shortfall.

This was a unique case -- the CFO messed up on some calculations (quite a big mess-up), not quite a systemic issue.

https://apnews.com/article/tucson-embattled-university-president-financial-crisis-8e707f491cf80abdfc25a4f1e34cff1b

Not sure what you mean, but the article you attach pegs the budget shortfall as 177 million. That works out to a $3,000 per student deficit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because liberal arts degrees are not as popular anymore. The market has shifted.

I don’t think that’s the case. I think it’s simply that the cost of higher education has risen way beyond the rise in the cost of living. It’s simply unaffordable now, regardless of major.

[Anonymous]

Those of us with academic ties have been aware of this for a decade.

Some schools will define their niche and survive.

Juniata is a good example so far. If you want to study environmental science, they have an excellent program with excellent placement.

The school offers unique resources that other schools don’t.

No, it’s not for your future Yale kid but this school fits a need in the market and I’ll be surprised if it closes.

Other schools will have poor leadership or be too religious and will shut down.



They just INCREASED their freshman class so they know what they are doing.

No, I am not a booster. I did not attend Juniata and do not have any children who attended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of us with academic ties have been aware of this for a decade.

Some schools will define their niche and survive.

Juniata is a good example so far. If you want to study environmental science, they have an excellent program with excellent placement.

The school offers unique resources that other schools don’t.

No, it’s not for your future Yale kid but this school fits a need in the market and I’ll be surprised if it closes.

Other schools will have poor leadership or be too religious and will shut down.



They just INCREASED their freshman class so they know what they are doing.

No, I am not a booster. I did not attend Juniata and do not have any children who attended.

Juniata seems like future roadkill. Sorry.

It already has to accept almost everyone who applies. What happens when, over the next 5 years, the population of 18 year olds in its region drops by 15 %? Colleges like Dickinson or F&M will grab the kids who currently would be Juniata material.

And its endowment is too small to compete. And its affiliated religion is very small and supports a handful of other colleges in the same region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of us with academic ties have been aware of this for a decade.

Some schools will define their niche and survive.

Juniata is a good example so far. If you want to study environmental science, they have an excellent program with excellent placement.

The school offers unique resources that other schools don’t.

No, it’s not for your future Yale kid but this school fits a need in the market and I’ll be surprised if it closes.

Other schools will have poor leadership or be too religious and will shut down.



They just INCREASED their freshman class so they know what they are doing.

No, I am not a booster. I did not attend Juniata and do not have any children who attended.

Juniata seems like future roadkill. Sorry.

It already has to accept almost everyone who applies. What happens when, over the next 5 years, the population of 18 year olds in its region drops by 15 %? Colleges like Dickinson or F&M will grab the kids who currently would be Juniata material.

And its endowment is too small to compete. And its affiliated religion is very small and supports a handful of other colleges in the same region.

Does Juniata offer merit aid to everyone? Can’t imagine many families would be willing to pay the rack rate vs an in-state option, even if starting at a PSU satellite campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because liberal arts degrees are not as popular anymore. The market has shifted.

I don’t think that’s the case. I think it’s simply that the cost of higher education has risen way beyond the rise in the cost of living. It’s simply unaffordable now, regardless of major.

This is why merit aid has become increasingly important at liberal arts schools.

My kids are 5 years apart — my younger currently a senior in HS. Comparing their respective classmates (and parents of classmates), I’ve observed a huge shift in attitudes about “second tier” LACs. Five years ago very few families we knew were discussing schools like Denison, St. Olaf, etc. It is completely different this time around. It’s been really fascinating (and gratifying) to see that change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of us with academic ties have been aware of this for a decade.

Some schools will define their niche and survive.

Juniata is a good example so far. If you want to study environmental science, they have an excellent program with excellent placement.

The school offers unique resources that other schools don’t.

No, it’s not for your future Yale kid but this school fits a need in the market and I’ll be surprised if it closes.

Other schools will have poor leadership or be too religious and will shut down.



They just INCREASED their freshman class so they know what they are doing.

No, I am not a booster. I did not attend Juniata and do not have any children who attended.

Juniata seems like future roadkill. Sorry.

It already has to accept almost everyone who applies. What happens when, over the next 5 years, the population of 18 year olds in its region drops by 15 %? Colleges like Dickinson or F&M will grab the kids who currently would be Juniata material.

And its endowment is too small to compete. And its affiliated religion is very small and supports a handful of other colleges in the same region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of us with academic ties have been aware of this for a decade.

Some schools will define their niche and survive.

Juniata is a good example so far. If you want to study environmental science, they have an excellent program with excellent placement.

The school offers unique resources that other schools don’t.

No, it’s not for your future Yale kid but this school fits a need in the market and I’ll be surprised if it closes.

Other schools will have poor leadership or be too religious and will shut down.



They just INCREASED their freshman class so they know what they are doing.

No, I am not a booster. I did not attend Juniata and do not have any children who attended.

Juniata seems like future roadkill. Sorry.

It already has to accept almost everyone who applies. What happens when, over the next 5 years, the population of 18 year olds in its region drops by 15 %? Colleges like Dickinson or F&M will grab the kids who currently would be Juniata material.

And its endowment is too small to compete. And its affiliated religion is very small and supports a handful of other colleges in the same region.

Here's another one that's going down. Sarah Lawrence. Takes half of applicants already, a zillion better SLACs within 100 miles, and a very small endowment.