Test Optional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some kids who are great students but have terrible test anxiety and TO is a good option. I still don't think it helps much for the top schools though, unless you are submitting APs. Best advice is to put the time into prepping for SATs and APs. Don't rely on TO.

This isn’t true. Our school doesn’t have APs and kids got in TO to Northwestern, Yale and Vanderbilt this fall alone. Another got into Princeton submitting a 1420, which according to this board is a trade school level score. Don’t get DCUM brainwashed, OP.

Where are you located??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

Hmm.
Disagree if your high school has a rigorous rep.
At our private lots of kids ED to certain schools TO (Vanderbilt; UChicago; Wash U)…and they are successful

From what area of the country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some kids who are great students but have terrible test anxiety and TO is a good option. I still don't think it helps much for the top schools though, unless you are submitting APs. Best advice is to put the time into prepping for SATs and APs. Don't rely on TO.

This isn’t true. Our school doesn’t have APs and kids got in TO to Northwestern, Yale and Vanderbilt this fall alone. Another got into Princeton submitting a 1420, which according to this board is a trade school level score. Don’t get DCUM brainwashed, OP.

💯
Schools with a high number of TO admitted students below.

UChicago
WashU
Vanderbilt
USC
Cornell
Claremont McKenna
NYU
BU
UMiami
Northeastern
Villanova
Middlebury
BC
Lehigh
Pomona
Wake
Tufts
Tulane

Even assuming 50% of the kids across all colleges in the US are TO, how do you know that your kid qualifies to be in that bucket and for some reason not categorized in the other bucket where scores would have helped?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

+1 With his stats, TO will look like his test scores are not 1500+, especially with 4/5 on all his AP tests. So yes, it will look "fishy" to the AO. So unless you are form a Low income zip code, it will be assumed he didn't do well on the SAT/ACT.

That's the thing, TO is not really TO at most schools. If you are from a zipcode where everyone can easily take the tests, then you should take it and submit

What is your support for this? I would agree if school says "test recommended," but most who say TO are explicit that nothing will be assumed by not submitting, it's just 1 data point.

Some of the “tiger mom” posters here are wrong.
Listen to what college AO are saying… they don’t infer a low Test score. But it’s one less data point. So the rest of the data points must be extremely strong.

There is a ton of information out there on this topic. Educate yourself and don’t listen to these crazy parents pushing testing as the end, all be all.

Just because you get a 35 or 36 does not entitle you to admission to a top-tier college. It actually is irrelevant after the first 30 seconds of looking at the application.

Grades and test scores are not treated equally. One is definitely more important than the other.

I’m a big fan of getting data and information directly from college counselors and the admissions offices.
Listen to podcasts. There are some really good ones.

More and more schools are being informally test aware, and are in fact making negative inferences when no scores are submitted.

If you4 child is aiming for a T50 and your family is affluent, its worth it to work on getting scores higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

+1 With his stats, TO will look like his test scores are not 1500+, especially with 4/5 on all his AP tests. So yes, it will look "fishy" to the AO. So unless you are form a Low income zip code, it will be assumed he didn't do well on the SAT/ACT.

That's the thing, TO is not really TO at most schools. If you are from a zipcode where everyone can easily take the tests, then you should take it and submit

What is your support for this? I would agree if school says "test recommended," but most who say TO are explicit that nothing will be assumed by not submitting, it's just 1 data point.

wrong. human nature assumes the kid is a poor test taker and is hiding something. What is college? Four years of testing. So colleges only want the kids that fit the profile they are seeking (URM, first generation, etc.) for test optional slots. This is obvious. Your public high school counselor might be embarrassed to admit this but ask any private counselor and they will tell you - especially if you are in a tony private - to submit test scores if you can. If you can't, it will be assumed that they are poor and you will not get into top schools

[Anonymous]

My DS22 and DS24 both applied test optional and were admitted to several schools in T30-100, some with extensive merit. Both white males coming from DCPS with high GPAs and high rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some kids who are great students but have terrible test anxiety and TO is a good option. I still don't think it helps much for the top schools though, unless you are submitting APs. Best advice is to put the time into prepping for SATs and APs. Don't rely on TO.

How does the "test anxiety" brigade manage to do well on AP exams but not the SAT?

Because AP exams are held in your school, during the regular school day, possibly in your actual class you've been in the whole year, with your friends all around you and possibly your teacher as the proctor. Calms you down if you have anxiety. SAT is on a Saturday, sometimes at your school but in the cafeteria or other lecture hall, sometimes at a different school or testing center, with strangers sitting around you, a proctor you just met, room could be too cold, too hot, sun in your eyes, proctor refuses to draw down shades, etc... etc.... amps up the anxiety and hence the propensity to make silly mistakes, run out of time etc... My DS who notices every small thing around them came out of a sitting talking about how frustrating and distracting it was for testers in the room to be audibly cursing regularly during the sitting.

I hate to break it to you, but college exams are often in a different place and at a different time than class. So perhaps the SAT score is more predictive of future success than the AP exam score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some kids who are great students but have terrible test anxiety and TO is a good option. I still don't think it helps much for the top schools though, unless you are submitting APs. Best advice is to put the time into prepping for SATs and APs. Don't rely on TO.

How does the "test anxiety" brigade manage to do well on AP exams but not the SAT?

Because AP exams are held in your school, during the regular school day, possibly in your actual class you've been in the whole year, with your friends all around you and possibly your teacher as the proctor. Calms you down if you have anxiety. SAT is on a Saturday, sometimes at your school but in the cafeteria or other lecture hall, sometimes at a different school or testing center, with strangers sitting around you, a proctor you just met, room could be too cold, too hot, sun in your eyes, proctor refuses to draw down shades, etc... etc.... amps up the anxiety and hence the propensity to make silly mistakes, run out of time etc... My DS who notices every small thing around them came out of a sitting talking about how frustrating and distracting it was for testers in the room to be audibly cursing regularly during the sitting.

THIS^^^ The 8am, arrive by 7:15/7:30am at a testing site that might be 1 hour from home is a huge thing. My kid would likely have gotten 40-60 points higher if they'd been able to take the SAT at noontime---they simply are not a morning person (prefer to sleep at 2am and get up at noon).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

+1 With his stats, TO will look like his test scores are not 1500+, especially with 4/5 on all his AP tests. So yes, it will look "fishy" to the AO. So unless you are form a Low income zip code, it will be assumed he didn't do well on the SAT/ACT.

That's the thing, TO is not really TO at most schools. If you are from a zipcode where everyone can easily take the tests, then you should take it and submit

What is your support for this? I would agree if school says "test recommended," but most who say TO are explicit that nothing will be assumed by not submitting, it's just 1 data point.

wrong. human nature assumes the kid is a poor test taker and is hiding something. What is college? Four years of testing. So colleges only want the kids that fit the profile they are seeking (URM, first generation, etc.) for test optional slots. This is obvious. Your public high school counselor might be embarrassed to admit this but ask any private counselor and they will tell you - especially if you are in a tony private - to submit test scores if you can. If you can't, it will be assumed that they are poor and you will not get into top schools

https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2024/01/26/ycbk-399-how-do-admission-officers-read-an-admissions-file/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

+1 With his stats, TO will look like his test scores are not 1500+, especially with 4/5 on all his AP tests. So yes, it will look "fishy" to the AO. So unless you are form a Low income zip code, it will be assumed he didn't do well on the SAT/ACT.

That's the thing, TO is not really TO at most schools. If you are from a zipcode where everyone can easily take the tests, then you should take it and submit

What is your support for this? I would agree if school says "test recommended," but most who say TO are explicit that nothing will be assumed by not submitting, it's just 1 data point.

wrong. human nature assumes the kid is a poor test taker and is hiding something. What is college? Four years of testing. So colleges only want the kids that fit the profile they are seeking (URM, first generation, etc.) for test optional slots. This is obvious. Your public high school counselor might be embarrassed to admit this but ask any private counselor and they will tell you - especially if you are in a tony private - to submit test scores if you can. If you can't, it will be assumed that they are poor and you will not get into top schools

Great episode.

YCBK 398: Are colleges secretly factoring test scores into decisions for test-optional applicants

https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2024/01/22/ycbk-398-are-colleges-secretly-factoring-test-scores-into-decisions-for-test-optional-applicants/

[Anonymous]

I think TO works much better in the T30-T100 range than in the T1-T30 range

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TO will not be a great look for a someone w your DCs stats. Not too hard to bump up sat. I would have him work on that. Superscoring to at least 1500 will be straightforward. Good luck.

+1 With his stats, TO will look like his test scores are not 1500+, especially with 4/5 on all his AP tests. So yes, it will look "fishy" to the AO. So unless you are form a Low income zip code, it will be assumed he didn't do well on the SAT/ACT.

That's the thing, TO is not really TO at most schools. If you are from a zipcode where everyone can easily take the tests, then you should take it and submit

What is your support for this? I would agree if school says "test recommended," but most who say TO are explicit that nothing will be assumed by not submitting, it's just 1 data point.

Some of the “tiger mom” posters here are wrong.
Listen to what college AO are saying… they don’t infer a low Test score. But it’s one less data point. So the rest of the data points must be extremely strong.

There is a ton of information out there on this topic. Educate yourself and don’t listen to these crazy parents pushing testing as the end, all be all.

Just because you get a 35 or 36 does not entitle you to admission to a top-tier college. It actually is irrelevant after the first 30 seconds of looking at the application.

Grades and test scores are not treated equally. One is definitely more important than the other.

I’m a big fan of getting data and information directly from college counselors and the admissions offices.
Listen to podcasts. There are some really good ones.

More and more schools are being informally test aware, and are in fact making negative inferences when no scores are submitted.

If you4 child is aiming for a T50 and your family is affluent, its worth it to work on getting scores higher.

This. And the shift now is to ask for tests or be test aware. It is a negative if you are unhooked and applying test optional.

[Anonymous]

ACT is quicker paced- but questions are a bit more straightforward

SAT - longer time allowed for each question but they have trickier wording / make you really read each question twice to make sure you are not missing a “trick”.

My niece did significantly better on practice SAT than ACT and nephew was the reverse.

[Anonymous]

wrong. human nature assumes the kid is a poor test taker and is hiding something. What is college? Four years of testing. So colleges only want the kids that fit the profile they are seeking (URM, first generation, etc.) for test optional slots. This is obvious. Your public high school counselor might be embarrassed to admit this but ask any private counselor and they will tell you - especially if you are in a tony private - to submit test scores if you can. If you can't, it will be assumed that they are poor and you will not get into top schools

This doesn't match the results we've seen in this cycle. High stat white kids from DMV private and public schools admitted TO to a number of T30 schools and I won't be surprised to see many more TO acceptances on Ivy Day. Our private counselor said since current reported test scores are skewed to the higher end of the range, close to 50% of kids are successfully going TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some kids who are great students but have terrible test anxiety and TO is a good option. I still don't think it helps much for the top schools though, unless you are submitting APs. Best advice is to put the time into prepping for SATs and APs. Don't rely on TO.

How does the "test anxiety" brigade manage to do well on AP exams but not the SAT?

Because AP exams are held in your school, during the regular school day, possibly in your actual class you've been in the whole year, with your friends all around you and possibly your teacher as the proctor. Calms you down if you have anxiety. SAT is on a Saturday, sometimes at your school but in the cafeteria or other lecture hall, sometimes at a different school or testing center, with strangers sitting around you, a proctor you just met, room could be too cold, too hot, sun in your eyes, proctor refuses to draw down shades, etc... etc.... amps up the anxiety and hence the propensity to make silly mistakes, run out of time etc... My DS who notices every small thing around them came out of a sitting talking about how frustrating and distracting it was for testers in the room to be audibly cursing regularly during the sitting.

THIS^^^ The 8am, arrive by 7:15/7:30am at a testing site that might be 1 hour from home is a huge thing. My kid would likely have gotten 40-60 points higher if they'd been able to take the SAT at noontime---they simply are not a morning person (prefer to sleep at 2am and get up at noon).

Would have got 1160 but got 1100 OR would have got 1580 but got 1520?