How do I bring this up diplomatically without accusing coach of having racial biases?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

Every kid swimming all stars has a divisional time because only divisional times count for all stars and teams choose their own divisional rosters. Theoretically, a kid could swim 1 B meet and make divisional (unless the team itself has a rule barring it) and then swim all stars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Swim always goes by times,[/b] so this isn't racism. Sure, its not necessarily "fair" but the other kid could be swimming with a year round group.

Nope. My sons swam at Chesterbrook in McLean for a number of years, and when I pointed this out to a coach once (son wasn't sent to an A meet in spite of faster times) he made up some BS about effort, and blah blah. THe team reps are notoriously useless.

DP. Same story different team. Our team has a rule that meets are seeded based on maximum points—but coach diverges from this and the reps don’t seem to care. I don’t think most parents notice it because they aren’t hunting down seed times on the NVSL site. The coach seems to favor certain kids and we aren’t sure what the reasons are to be honest. It doesn’t seem racially motivated at our pool, but it could be anything—innocent or not so innocent.

Most summer coaches are also winter coaches. If one parent is paying you thousands of dollars a year and another isn't, then the former is going to get the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Swim always goes by times,[/b] so this isn't racism. Sure, its not necessarily "fair" but the other kid could be swimming with a year round group.

Nope. My sons swam at Chesterbrook in McLean for a number of years, and when I pointed this out to a coach once (son wasn't sent to an A meet in spite of faster times) he made up some BS about effort, and blah blah. THe team reps are notoriously useless.

DP. Same story different team. Our team has a rule that meets are seeded based on maximum points—but coach diverges from this and the reps don’t seem to care. I don’t think most parents notice it because they aren’t hunting down seed times on the NVSL site. The coach seems to favor certain kids and we aren’t sure what the reasons are to be honest. It doesn’t seem racially motivated at our pool, but it could be anything—innocent or not so innocent.

Most summer coaches are also winter coaches. If one parent is paying you thousands of dollars a year and another isn't, then the former is going to get the benefit of the doubt.

That’s one theory. But it doesn’t seem to fit every situation. More likely the coach is just picking without really examining the matchups closely. You’d think reps would care but they don’t. I get that there is strategy behind seeding but it shouldn’t be a secret in my opinion. If you’re asking an athlete to step up or step back for a strategic reason, I get that, but be open about it. Otherwise it definitely calls into question the ethics of the coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

Every kid swimming all stars has a divisional time because only divisional times count for all stars and teams choose their own divisional rosters. Theoretically, a kid could swim 1 B meet and make divisional (unless the team itself has a rule barring it) and then swim all stars

NVSL requires that the swimmers at Divisionals have an A meet time (not necessarily in the stroke, but any stroke). Not getting picked for A meets can definitely hold a would-be all-star back.

It did for our kid one year—kid had all star times in one stroke but never really got to race it at A meets, and didn’t want to pick it at Divisionals (our team lets kids pick strokes based on priority position on the ladder ) because they hadn’t been racing it all season.

It was weird that the coach didn’t pick them for A meets in that stroke, but we were so used to not questioning anything and had a lot of stuff going on at home that year. Making all-stars is a big deal for young swimmers and a slower swimmer from our team made it, which bugged our kid a lot. Obviously we should have paid more attention—it made me really look more closely in subsequent years.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I just thought of another thing OP may not know about. Our team only uses the ladder. BUT we also take attendance. So if the coach knows you’re out of town - they select the next person. Does OP know for sure the people did say they were out of town?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

Every kid swimming all stars has a divisional time because only divisional times count for all stars and teams choose their own divisional rosters. Theoretically, a kid could swim 1 B meet and make divisional (unless the team itself has a rule barring it) and then swim all stars

NVSL requires that the swimmers at Divisionals have an A meet time (not necessarily in the stroke, but any stroke). Not getting picked for A meets can definitely hold a would-be all-star back.

It did for our kid one year—kid had all star times in one stroke but never really got to race it at A meets, and didn’t want to pick it at Divisionals (our team lets kids pick strokes based on priority position on the ladder ) because they hadn’t been racing it all season.

It was weird that the coach didn’t pick them for A meets in that stroke, but we were so used to not questioning anything and had a lot of stuff going on at home that year. Making all-stars is a big deal for young swimmers and a slower swimmer from our team made it, which bugged our kid a lot. Obviously we should have paid more attention—it made me really look more closely in subsequent years.

My now 11 year old for sure went to divisionals for fly at age 7 without ever swimming in an A meet. He had a fast time at the last B meet before the season ended. Idk if under 8 has special rules where sometimes teams can’t even field two legal swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

Every kid swimming all stars has a divisional time because only divisional times count for all stars and teams choose their own divisional rosters. Theoretically, a kid could swim 1 B meet and make divisional (unless the team itself has a rule barring it) and then swim all stars

NVSL requires that the swimmers at Divisionals have an A meet time (not necessarily in the stroke, but any stroke). Not getting picked for A meets can definitely hold a would-be all-star back.

It did for our kid one year—kid had all star times in one stroke but never really got to race it at A meets, and didn’t want to pick it at Divisionals (our team lets kids pick strokes based on priority position on the ladder ) because they hadn’t been racing it all season.

It was weird that the coach didn’t pick them for A meets in that stroke, but we were so used to not questioning anything and had a lot of stuff going on at home that year. Making all-stars is a big deal for young swimmers and a slower swimmer from our team made it, which bugged our kid a lot. Obviously we should have paid more attention—it made me really look more closely in subsequent years.

My now 11 year old for sure went to divisionals for fly at age 7 without ever swimming in an A meet. He had a fast time at the last B meet before the season ended. Idk if under 8 has special rules where sometimes teams can’t even field two legal swimmers.

I thought it was a rule but maybe I am mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Usually it is about times and DQ. If a family is out of town/not able to go to the meet, then they go to the next in line. My kid never picks what he swims in. He does what he's told to where he's needed even if its his hated stroke.

[Anonymous]

Send an anonymous note to the club complaining that there are too many black swimmers and they should have only white kids at A level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does this matter?

The only difference between A and B is when the meet is. You swim your race and get a time.

One important difference is that B meets oroduce times that coaches can use to arrange A meet rosters - but those B times aren't official for things like All Stars. The atmospheres and experiences at the two meet types are also different. Both can be very fun and very supportive of the kids, but they are distinct from one another. Different times of day, too.

Only divisionals count for all stars and teams choose their divisional swimmers

Majority of kids don’t go to all stars as it’s not just kids at your pool but the league.

Every kid swimming all stars has a divisional time because only divisional times count for all stars and teams choose their own divisional rosters. Theoretically, a kid could swim 1 B meet and make divisional (unless the team itself has a rule barring it) and then swim all stars

NVSL requires that the swimmers at Divisionals have an A meet time (not necessarily in the stroke, but any stroke). Not getting picked for A meets can definitely hold a would-be all-star back.

It did for our kid one year—kid had all star times in one stroke but never really got to race it at A meets, and didn’t want to pick it at Divisionals (our team lets kids pick strokes based on priority position on the ladder ) because they hadn’t been racing it all season.

It was weird that the coach didn’t pick them for A meets in that stroke, but we were so used to not questioning anything and had a lot of stuff going on at home that year. Making all-stars is a big deal for young swimmers and a slower swimmer from our team made it, which bugged our kid a lot. Obviously we should have paid more attention—it made me really look more closely in subsequent years.

My now 11 year old for sure went to divisionals for fly at age 7 without ever swimming in an A meet. He had a fast time at the last B meet before the season ended. Idk if under 8 has special rules where sometimes teams can’t even field two legal swimmers.

I thought it was a rule but maybe I am mistaken.

It's team specific. My kids have been on two teams, one requires availability for 3 a meets (the kid doesn't have to be chosen, just available) and the other has no requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the past our swim team has always used best times to decide who gets to go to A meets or other events. It was very clear cut. This year there is a new coach who usually uses times but has made a few decisions to disregard some kids' times and pick others. When a few parents raised the question he said it's due to the other kids being more consistently fast. I respect that and think that makes sense that sometimes kids have outlier times due to timing irregularities or other reasons.

But the thing I've noticed is that the decision of leaving things up to the discretion of the coach always results in the non-white swimmers not getting picked. The last A meet there was one swimmer who had an outlier time from a B meet who had not been improving, does not go to practices and just happened to get a time that was half a second faster than another swimmer who goes to practices, has been improving and has consistently gotten lower times. If we follow the coach's own stated logic for picking kids the more consistent swimmer should have been picked and not the kid with the outlier time. But the kid with the outlier time is white and the more consistent kid is not white. It's the same every time there are gray area cases and the coach just makes up a reason why the white swimmer is picked.

Would you point this out to someone? Who? I don't think the coach is openly racist but he seems to give white swimmers the benefit of the doubt while non-white swimmers are not given that respect. We are in a majority white area with all white coaches.

What did the coach say when you asked him about it directly?