Are public schools everywhere in the US getting bad post-pandemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

You still aren’t getting vouchers. You want private, you pay for it. Simple,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

You still aren’t getting vouchers. You want private, you pay for it. Simple,

I do pay for it- full pay- at one of the most expensive schools in the area. I would love it if more families could have the choice to apply to that school or other schools. And the schools would love it too. Many schools genuinely want to provide more opportunities (within their budget) for other students. As much as people complain, they aren’t just out there raising tuition for no reason. I have to wonder why people would send their kids to these schools if that’s what they think of the Board and budget process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

Umm, because private schools are private businesses whose primarily goal is maximizing profits? Put another way, I don't see why they wouldn't raise tuition in that scenario. Maybe not by the full $10k, and maybe not as a 1-year step, but a couple grand a year for a few years straight? No doubt.

I broadly don’t agree because families will still have to come up with the rest of the tuition. And it would depend on how the program is implemented. If the program is geared towards families in certain income brackets or families assigned to failing schools, then not all schools will be a real option for people using vouchers due to the balance of the tuition (although perhaps FA could fill the gap for a few more families in this situation).

These aren’t easy questions but I wouldn’t expect a legit, well-run independent school to raise tuition strictly due to the availability of vouchers. Many schools could raise tuition right now- today- and people would still pay. They aren’t raising tuition for no reason.

[Anonymous]

No, not everywhere, OP.
Around here, states in the south get demeaned for their public schools. Mississippi seems to be doing something right.


https://www.realcleareducation.com/articles/2023/06/26/mississippi_celebrates_major_educational_victory_110879.html#:~:text=According%20to%20the%202022%20National,reading%20and%20second%20in%20math.

It’s rare to see a comeback story as strong as that of Mississippi students.

According to the 2022 National Assessment of Educational Progress, Mississippi fourth-graders, when adjusted for demographics, are ranked as the nation’s top performers in reading and second in math. Mississippi’s dead-last ranking in the United States in overall education was once a familiar statistic, but recent test scores reveal the incredible new reality of academic prosperity for students in the state. Graduation rates have skyrocketed to about 10% higher than the national average. Most students, including those in poverty, have moved from being ranked at the bottom to placing somewhere near the middle.

Progress began after the 2013 passage of the Literacy-Based Promotion Act (LBPA), legislation that included provisions for the third-grade “reading gate,” requiring students to demonstrate reading proficiency in order to be promoted to the next grade. LBPA also included provisions for school choice, early childhood education, scholarships for dyslexic students, and teacher-education reforms. The genius behind this law comes from its ability to reach students when it counts and identifies K–3 students who need additional reading help as early as possible. Students not proficient in reading by the end of third grade are four times more likely to drop out of high school – and high school dropouts are not eligible for 90% of jobs in the U.S. economy.

The act’s implementation was a long march, which included hiring regional coordinators and school-based literacy coaches in the lowest-performing schools and prioritizing quality over quantity in hiring highly competent professionals. A Literacy Coaching Handbook was developed for coaches, K–3 teachers, administrators, and university faculty teaching early literacy. Coaches were required to train and pass an exam that equipped them with a core understanding of language structure and helped them gain instructional information to complement their teaching practices. Coaches followed up with teachers after the training to ensure the transfer of knowledge to practice. More than 14,000 teachers, principals, and higher education staff have since completed the literacy-foundation training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

Umm, because private schools are private businesses whose primarily goal is maximizing profits? Put another way, I don't see why they wouldn't raise tuition in that scenario. Maybe not by the full $10k, and maybe not as a 1-year step, but a couple grand a year for a few years straight? No doubt.

I broadly don’t agree because families will still have to come up with the rest of the tuition. And it would depend on how the program is implemented. If the program is geared towards families in certain income brackets or families assigned to failing schools, then not all schools will be a real option for people using vouchers due to the balance of the tuition (although perhaps FA could fill the gap for a few more families in this situation).

These aren’t easy questions but I wouldn’t expect a legit, well-run independent school to raise tuition strictly due to the availability of vouchers. Many schools could raise tuition right now- today- and people would still pay. They aren’t raising tuition for no reason.

I absolutely believe they will raise tuition “for no reason”. Why? Because they will always find a reason. The point of private is to keep the masses out. And raising tuition may allow them to grant more money to the students deemed worthy. You pay a premium for the perfect cohort for your child. Ethnically diverse and just enough lower SES kids to keep the class grounded. It costs a fortune to have that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

Umm, because private schools are private businesses whose primarily goal is maximizing profits? Put another way, I don't see why they wouldn't raise tuition in that scenario. Maybe not by the full $10k, and maybe not as a 1-year step, but a couple grand a year for a few years straight? No doubt.

I broadly don’t agree because families will still have to come up with the rest of the tuition. And it would depend on how the program is implemented. If the program is geared towards families in certain income brackets or families assigned to failing schools, then not all schools will be a real option for people using vouchers due to the balance of the tuition (although perhaps FA could fill the gap for a few more families in this situation).

These aren’t easy questions but I wouldn’t expect a legit, well-run independent school to raise tuition strictly due to the availability of vouchers. Many schools could raise tuition right now- today- and people would still pay. They aren’t raising tuition for no reason.

I absolutely believe they will raise tuition “for no reason”. Why? Because they will always find a reason. The point of private is to keep the masses out. And raising tuition may allow them to grant more money to the students deemed worthy. You pay a premium for the perfect cohort for your child. Ethnically diverse and just enough lower SES kids to keep the class grounded. It costs a fortune to have that.

They could arbitrarily raise tuition right now- today- if they wanted to. I don’t see how vouchers would change that dynamic. If anything vouchers would allow them to reallocate their financial aid budget, or award larger amounts of aid. I’m not following your logic at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

Umm, because private schools are private businesses whose primarily goal is maximizing profits? Put another way, I don't see why they wouldn't raise tuition in that scenario. Maybe not by the full $10k, and maybe not as a 1-year step, but a couple grand a year for a few years straight? No doubt.

I broadly don’t agree because families will still have to come up with the rest of the tuition. And it would depend on how the program is implemented. If the program is geared towards families in certain income brackets or families assigned to failing schools, then not all schools will be a real option for people using vouchers due to the balance of the tuition (although perhaps FA could fill the gap for a few more families in this situation).

These aren’t easy questions but I wouldn’t expect a legit, well-run independent school to raise tuition strictly due to the availability of vouchers. Many schools could raise tuition right now- today- and people would still pay. They aren’t raising tuition for no reason.

I absolutely believe they will raise tuition “for no reason”. Why? Because they will always find a reason. The point of private is to keep the masses out. And raising tuition may allow them to grant more money to the students deemed worthy. You pay a premium for the perfect cohort for your child. Ethnically diverse and just enough lower SES kids to keep the class grounded. It costs a fortune to have that.

They could arbitrarily raise tuition right now- today- if they wanted to. I don’t see how vouchers would change that dynamic. If anything vouchers would allow them to reallocate their financial aid budget, or award larger amounts of aid. I’m not following your logic at all.

Vouchers would definitely make it easier for private schools to charge more. They would experience the same increases colleges have had to deal with.

A lot of private schools maintain use their exclusivity to keep prices higher. They are not interested in expanding to the masses.

[Anonymous]

Kids also don’t seem care anymore either!!!

[Anonymous]

Kids seem apathetic now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids seem apathetic now

+1

[Anonymous]

People who feel like the world is getting worse generally don’t have a good sense of the way the world actually was in the past. Nostalgia warps people’s perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in NOVA and the school situation is depressing. The biggest problem I see is that teachers can't control the behavioral problems of kids (not blaming teachers btw) so not a lot of learning is happening and the whole school environment is just really stressful for kids. I was honestly thinking about moving but I hear complaints about this from people in many different places. Are there any places in the US where this isn't the trend?

Ban cell phones in school (not just in class) and behavior will improve considerably.

Agree, and go back to one set of laptops which are occassionally pulled out for special projects. They need to be off screens at school, all
Scree s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things are ruining schools: “equity” nonsense that drives down standards for leaning and discipline, and electronic devices including student cell phones along with the increased reliance of teachers on iPads/chromebooks/apps for teaching. Let’s go back to the days where kids read physical books in school and miscreants who throw chairs in the classroom get suspended.

Public schools legally do not have the same ability to expel students that repeatedly exhibit disruptive behaviors. In the past these students could be sent to alternative schools however due to 'equity' they are now generally expected to remain with students who do not exhibit these behaviors.

Its not due to equity, thats just lip service. Its cheapness.
Separate SN schools cost a fortune to run.

[Anonymous]

Public schools legally do not have the same ability to expel students that repeatedly exhibit disruptive behaviors. In the past these students could be sent to alternative schools however due to 'equity' they are now generally expected to remain with students who do not exhibit these behaviors.



Its not due to equity, thats just lip service. Its cheapness.
Separate SN schools cost a fortune to run.

Interesting that PP assumes the only disruptive behaviors are from special needs kids. There are plenty of kids without any specific special need that disrupt classes with attention-getting behavior or disrespectful language.

Overall, parents need to do their part if they want schools to get better. Stop expecting teachers to do all the parenting. Teach your kids to respect teachers--this is learned at home. Stop assuming the teacher is in the wrong--it is often your kid. Stop putting travel, sports and ECs first--when you do this, you send a signal to your kids that academics are not important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in NOVA and the school situation is depressing. The biggest problem I see is that teachers can't control the behavioral problems of kids (not blaming teachers btw) so not a lot of learning is happening and the whole school environment is just really stressful for kids. I was honestly thinking about moving but I hear complaints about this from people in many different places. Are there any places in the US where this isn't the trend?

My kids are doing amazing but I think it's because I made sure they didn't slack off during remote. In the end this was mostly about parenting not schools, but that's always been true.

Your kids can be doing absolutely amazing, but they’re still in a class within a school where many kids aren’t. These kids are disruptive and impact the experience for everyone. School standards have also slacked so the fact that your kids are doing amazing doesn’t really depict the whole picture.