MCPS Teachers Quitting? Who is replacing them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has had a long term sub the entire year so far in physics.
The school has not been able to find anyone

This is going to become a huge problem.

We can’t find teachers at our school willing to take on AP classes. When everybody is already swamped and exhausted, who will agree to piling on that much more work? Strong teachers used to campaign for those classes. Not anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is a major problem across the country. How many of us know someone in their 20s that went into teaching in the last three years. Anyone?
I don’t know why Biden hasn’t announced a federal program to pay the student loans of any public school teacher. That would make sense than the loan forgiveness he did. And districts need to immediately raise pay significantly. Who is going to take 40K a year to work round the clock on their feet most of the day with kids disrespecting you (and sometimes actually assaulting you). when you can get an office job for double that where you work 3 days at home and roll into the office at 9:30 on the other days?
At this point the schools that do have teachers are just robbing Peter to pay Paul — there aren’t actually new teachers coming into the system to replace the quits and retirements.

+1 AMEN!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would strongly recommend teachers and parents make a very big fuss about how starting salaries have not been remotely keeping up with inflation. And yes I get inflation lately has been crazy and a lot of salaries have not kept up. So let's compare FY12 to FY20 so we are looking at a relatively low inflation period:

FY13 starting salary for MA/MEQ: $51,128
FY20 starting salary for MA/MEQ: $55,537

That is a little less than a 9% increase over 7 years while the CPI shows a 12% increase over this period. Even before the recent spike in inflation teachers were making less in real dollars than they were before. Now let's look at current salaries:

FY23 starting salary for MA/MEQ: $59,424

% change over 10 years: 16%
CPI change: 30%

As teachers leave the remaining teachers have a harder job. More work for significantly less pay in real dollars. This is a horrifically viscious cycle that is harming our children.

This is even more so for those of us who work in the private sector. Meanwhile, Elrich is hiking property taxes by 10% so teachers get a big pay boost. The only way I can keep up is to find a new job to renegotiate my pay.

As I acknowledged in my above post, "And yes I get inflation lately has been crazy and a lot of salaries have not kept up."

But pre pandemic, overall wages were keeping up with inflation. MCPS was not, so they were already behind and now it is much worse. Maybe you don't have kids so don't care if there are teachers to teach. Many of us have a vested interest in this. When you were growing up, the adults paid taxes so you could have teachers to educate you. Now you want to pull up the ladder behind you. Taxes are no fun to pay but a 10% increase in your taxes is not a 10% increase in your monthly housing costs, since taxes are only a part of your costs, and you know it.

You are kidding yourself if you think pre-pandemic wages were keeping up. Wage stagnation over the last 50 years is well studied and reported on. Some specific sectors like Tech have had abundant wages, but that was offset but the really high cost of living in most areas where the companies are located. Other industries not so much. Most private sectors workers have been lucky if they got a 2-3% increase. And those who see the most increase in their salary over time have changed companies every few years or jobs. Professional development to keep up with the frequent changes is the market and technology is paid out of pocket but required if you want to stayed employed and moved up. Contractors could actually make more than the staff. Human Resources is a joke. And now most are requiring previously remote employees to come into office 3-4 days per week. We may not have the bad behaviors of kids, but trust we end our days and weeks exhausted. Oh, and we have the joy of having performance review season.

I mean if you are just going to pretend your anecdotes reflect the data, then I can't help you. The median wage has absolutely kept up with inflation. Have there been people left behind? Yes, and teachers are one of those groups.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/schrager-wage-stagnation-rethinking-safety-net

But somehow this is just my anecdotal view

You should read the links you posted which show wages have kept up with inflation. If your point is that real wages should be going up to reflect increased productivity, then I completely agree with you, but that's beside the point that teachers' went down in the pre-pandemic years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

How much screen time do kids get in school?

I am a different poster than the one you are responding to but I am also a teacher. Please understand that chromebooks or the such is a requirement, beyond our control. I would much rather have students write their essays by hand instead of on the chromebooks.

This is so depressing on so many levels

As a layperson I feel like teachers used to have a lot more freedom. I'm sure it could be more work but also more freeing and motivating. It seems like so much micromanaging from the central office and purchased curricula these days ; I would be depressed if my job were run that way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

This sounds amazing and also frankly like common sense. Isn't a lot of this what private schools do?

[Anonymous]

In the image below from Pew you can clearly see that the median wage, relative to inflation, went up just a little between 2014 and 2018. Not so for MCPS teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

This sounds amazing and also frankly like common sense. Isn't a lot of this what private schools do?

They have workbooks for some subjects and they don’t use them. They need textbooks for upper math and science snd paper books for English.

Teachers have loan forgiveness and starting salary is that for a ten month employee. They get paid better than other equals in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

This sounds amazing and also frankly like common sense. Isn't a lot of this what private schools do?

They have workbooks for some subjects and they don’t use them. They need textbooks for upper math and science snd paper books for English.

Teachers have loan forgiveness and starting salary is that for a ten month employee. They get paid better than other equals in the county.

A police officer with an associate's degree who gets overtime pay is not an equal to a teacher with a master's degree who does not get any overtime.

Firefighters have the best deal in the county. No degree required, lots of OT, great schedule.

[Anonymous]

But I definitely agree about loan forgiveness. If you are a teacher and aren't aware of loan forgiveness programs, look them up. You can get loan forgiveness after 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty ridiculous that a police recruit with an associate's degree makes more than an entry-level teacher with a master's degree.

The jobs may both be stressful, but police risk their lives. I know teachers are subject to abuse, but day to day there is no comparison with the risks police offers take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty ridiculous that a police recruit with an associate's degree makes more than an entry-level teacher with a master's degree.

The jobs may both be stressful, but police risk their lives. I know teachers are subject to abuse, but day to day there is no comparison with the risks police offers take.

There are TONS of jobs where people do not risk their lives and make much more than police officers. How do you justify them making more than police officers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

This sounds amazing and also frankly like common sense. Isn't a lot of this what private schools do?

They have workbooks for some subjects and they don’t use them. They need textbooks for upper math and science snd paper books for English.

Teachers have loan forgiveness and starting salary is that for a ten month employee. They get paid better than other equals in the county.

A police officer with an associate's degree who gets overtime pay is not an equal to a teacher with a master's degree who does not get any overtime.

Firefighters have the best deal in the county. No degree required, lots of OT, great schedule.

Don't you...don't you understand that police officers and fire fighters risk their lives to protect people? There is no college course which will teach you to be brave, so stop harping about degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

This sounds amazing and also frankly like common sense. Isn't a lot of this what private schools do?

They have workbooks for some subjects and they don’t use them. They need textbooks for upper math and science snd paper books for English.

Teachers have loan forgiveness and starting salary is that for a ten month employee. They get paid better than other equals in the county.

A police officer with an associate's degree who gets overtime pay is not an equal to a teacher with a master's degree who does not get any overtime.

Firefighters have the best deal in the county. No degree required, lots of OT, great schedule.

Don't you...don't you understand that police officers and fire fighters risk their lives to protect people? There is no college course which will teach you to be brave, so stop harping about degrees.

Lots of people make more than police and firefighters and do not risk their lives. Teachers should not be making LESS than them when they need so much more education. At a minimum the pay should be similar and teachers should get OT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty ridiculous that a police recruit with an associate's degree makes more than an entry-level teacher with a master's degree.

The jobs may both be stressful, but police risk their lives. I know teachers are subject to abuse, but day to day there is no comparison with the risks police offers take.

There are TONS of jobs where people do not risk their lives and make much more than police officers. How do you justify them making more than police officers?

I honestly dgaf what people are paid. Every worker should have at least a living wage. I'm sick of the comparisons between police/fire fighters and teachers. It's apples and oranges. The apt question is why aren't teachers valued and respected in our society?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty ridiculous that a police recruit with an associate's degree makes more than an entry-level teacher with a master's degree.

The jobs may both be stressful, but police risk their lives. I know teachers are subject to abuse, but day to day there is no comparison with the risks police offers take.

There are TONS of jobs where people do not risk their lives and make much more than police officers. How do you justify them making more than police officers?

I honestly dgaf what people are paid. Every worker should have at least a living wage. I'm sick of the comparisons between police/fire fighters and teachers. It's apples and oranges. The apt question is why aren't teachers valued and respected in our society?

Why does this bother you so much?

Teacher pay is shameful in Montgomery County, no wonder teachers are leaving.

A decent entry level salary for a person with a master's degree in a high cost area is no less than $70k. If you aren't paying that much and you aren't attracting or retaining people, you should really not be surprised.