Williams vs. Wellesley

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't put them in the same league of selectivity. I would compare Williams to the Ivies (HYP alum here). Wellesley has an amazing history but now that women can attend all the colleges they were shut out of before, the # who are interested in a women's college is much lower. If your DD is competitive for Williams, I'd assume she could get into Wellesley RD.

I love how posters think that by identifying themselves as "HYP" that that somehow gives them added credibility and/or college admissions expertise. It doesn't. It just means you're still living off of what you think were your glory years. I don't know when you went to "HYP" but I bet that when you did it was easier to get in any of them than it is Wellesley today.

NP. Also a HYP alum and I'm going to say yes, I do have a perspective on getting into and attending an elite college. For example, I recall a college classmate telling me they didn't get into Williams. I don't recall hearing that about Wellesley or any of the women's colleges. But my first job, which was very snobby and only hired from certain schools, did hire from schools like both Williams and Wellesley.

I absolutely agree that rank is not everything and the women's colleges seem like they have a lot to offer.

Also, I freely admit that HYP would probably not let me in today. The stats are just nuts.

No one said a "HYP" alum can't have a "perspective" on college admissions -- just that it doesn't give you any added credibility or expertise. And that a classmate once told you they didn't get into Williams but you never heard that said about Wellesley actually means something to you? Really? That's really silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine w/ all women's. Just wants to be around smart, curious, engaged students regardless of gender.

Williams seems to be much higher regarded by her classmates even though they aren't too far off in the rankings. So that's her concern about doing ED

You can't just be "fine" with an all-women's college. You have to really want that experience and be sure you won't miss having men as classmates and friends. Ask me how I know.

How do you know ?

I'm a Wellesley alumna. Wellesley offers excellent teaching and a great alum network, but if you enjoy having men as friends, you're out of luck. I love my Wellesley friends, but having had lots of guy friends in HS and later in law school, I missed that at Wellesley. It felt artificial and weird.

In your experience, did you notice that either you or your classmates lacked a bit regarding development of social skills in a co-ed environment ? TIA

[Anonymous]

I went to Williams, and loved my time there. That said, it is a very small town, and though there are lots of high-ish brow cultural activities both in Williamstown and adjacent North Adams, if your kid's idea of fun is going out to clubs and dances, etc., Williams is likely going to feel very isolated. If your kid is going to be happy with a campus focused social life, I thought it was a great experience and education.

[Anonymous]

NP, but my child has expressed interest in both schools (dc is only a junior). I’m pretty familiar with Wellesley, and we will likely visit both this spring break. But for those who noted the extreme isolation of Williams, is it kind of the same as Middlebury, or more so? We drove through Middlebury’s campus on a summer trip to VT and recollect it being the campus and then basically a one-stop sign town, but the college itself was only an hour-ish from Burlington so the “isolation” didn’t jump out (maybe also because it wasn’t bitterly cold and dark like it is from Nov - April in that region).

Both Williams and Middlebury are excellent colleges located in small similar-sized rural NE towns ... but Middlebury is much more isolated. Middlebury is an hour's drive from fun Burlington (metro area pop 215K) - but that's it. Everything else around Middlebury in western VT is just tiny cow towns of a couple of thousand people plus small struggling Rutland about 45 minutes in the other direction. By comparison, Williams/Williamstown is just a few miles from North Adams (which effectively triples the immediate area's population and offerings) and in the developed Berkshires area with its myriad small cities, associated retail, and the huge array of cultural and dining offerings designed to serve vacationing Bostonians and NYers. From Williams the nearest Walmart is a 15 minute drive, and the nearest Target a 25 minute drive -- compared to nearly an hour from Middlebury to get to either (in Burlington or in the case of Walmart in Rutland too) And if a Williams student needs more than that, Albany NY (which may not be Paris but is a growing metro area with about five times the population of Burlington) is just an hour's drive away. So I'd say, no, Williams isn't really as isolated - in fact or in feeling -- as Middlebury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP, but my child has expressed interest in both schools (dc is only a junior). I’m pretty familiar with Wellesley, and we will likely visit both this spring break. But for those who noted the extreme isolation of Williams, is it kind of the same as Middlebury, or more so? We drove through Middlebury’s campus on a summer trip to VT and recollect it being the campus and then basically a one-stop sign town, but the college itself was only an hour-ish from Burlington so the “isolation” didn’t jump out (maybe also because it wasn’t bitterly cold and dark like it is from Nov - April in that region).

Both Williams and Middlebury are excellent colleges located in small similar-sized rural NE towns ... but Middlebury is much more isolated. Middlebury is an hour's drive from fun Burlington (metro area pop 215K) - but that's it. Everything else around Middlebury in western VT is just tiny cow towns of a couple of thousand people plus small struggling Rutland about 45 minutes in the other direction. By comparison, Williams/Williamstown is just a few miles from North Adams (which effectively triples the immediate area's population and offerings) and in the developed Berkshires area with its myriad small cities, associated retail, and the huge array of cultural and dining offerings designed to serve vacationing Bostonians and NYers. From Williams the nearest Walmart is a 15 minute drive, and the nearest Target a 25 minute drive -- compared to nearly an hour from Middlebury to get to either (in Burlington or in the case of Walmart in Rutland too) And if a Williams student needs more than that, Albany NY (which may not be Paris but is a growing metro area with about five times the population of Burlington) is just an hour's drive away. So I'd say, no, Williams isn't really as isolated - in fact or in feeling -- as Middlebury.

Middlebury College has a significantly larger student population than Williams College. More students/faculty/administrators, etc. can make a school feel less isolated.

[Anonymous]

Williams probably a little better academically but not tremendous difference. Can't go wrong. Does she want single sex school? Rural or suburban? These are the key questions. Are you applying for Aid? Maybe one gives a little more. Right play is ED 1 Williams and ED 2 Wells.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Williams probably a little better academically but not tremendous difference. Can't go wrong. Does she want single sex school? Rural or suburban? These are the key questions. Are you applying for Aid? Maybe one gives a little more. Right play is ED 1 Williams and ED 2 Wells.

Nonsense that Williams is better. Both are top 5 LACs and would be tied if Wellesley were coed.

[Anonymous]

PP not nonsense. Just like there is HYPMS at the top, Amherst and Williams are the top. Next tier are the Pomonas and the Wellesleys of the World. It is like Columbia--elite in every way but just not Harvard Yale Princeton. That's the analogy. I am unbiased. Don't have a dog in this fight. That being said, if it were coed...it is not coed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP not nonsense. Just like there is HYPMS at the top, Amherst and Williams are the top. Next tier are the Pomonas and the Wellesleys of the World. It is like Columbia--elite in every way but just not Harvard Yale Princeton. That's the analogy. I am unbiased. Don't have a dog in this fight. That being said, if it were coed...it is not coed.

Oh, if YOU say so then it must be true. Bugger off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine w/ all women's. Just wants to be around smart, curious, engaged students regardless of gender.

Williams seems to be much higher regarded by her classmates even though they aren't too far off in the rankings. So that's her concern about doing ED

You can't just be "fine" with an all-women's college. You have to really want that experience and be sure you won't miss having men as classmates and friends. Ask me how I know.

How do you know ?

I'm a Wellesley alumna. Wellesley offers excellent teaching and a great alum network, but if you enjoy having men as friends, you're out of luck. I love my Wellesley friends, but having had lots of guy friends in HS and later in law school, I missed that at Wellesley. It felt artificial and weird.

In your experience, did you notice that either you or your classmates lacked a bit regarding development of social skills in a co-ed environment ? TIA

I wouldn't say that; my point really has less to do with my post-Wellesley experience (as I noted, I had plenty of male friends in law school, one of whom is my husband of nearly 30 years ). I just felt like the social scene of mixers and taking the bus to MIT and Harvard was odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine w/ all women's. Just wants to be around smart, curious, engaged students regardless of gender.

Williams seems to be much higher regarded by her classmates even though they aren't too far off in the rankings. So that's her concern about doing ED

You can't just be "fine" with an all-women's college. You have to really want that experience and be sure you won't miss having men as classmates and friends. Ask me how I know.

How do you know ?

I'm a Wellesley alumna. Wellesley offers excellent teaching and a great alum network, but if you enjoy having men as friends, you're out of luck. I love my Wellesley friends, but having had lots of guy friends in HS and later in law school, I missed that at Wellesley. It felt artificial and weird.

Thank you for your response.

I had an experience very much in line with your comment.

I did too. I got a great eduction at Wellesley, but in no universe would I have described it as "fun". I did my share of going into Boston and Cambridge for parties. Not the same as having the social life on campus.
OTOH, Wellesley was wayyyyy more intense than my T5 law school, so I was damn well prepared, and the Wellesley alum network is truly exceptional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP not nonsense. Just like there is HYPMS at the top, Amherst and Williams are the top. Next tier are the Pomonas and the Wellesleys of the World. It is like Columbia--elite in every way but just not Harvard Yale Princeton. That's the analogy. I am unbiased. Don't have a dog in this fight. That being said, if it were coed...it is not coed.

Pomona and Wellesley consistently rank above Amherst and Williams in several rankings... and according to Parchment, none of them significantly win against the others in cross-admit battles.

This is not true for, say HYP vs Columbia.

So no, they are in fact in the same tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP not nonsense. Just like there is HYPMS at the top, Amherst and Williams are the top. Next tier are the Pomonas and the Wellesleys of the World. It is like Columbia--elite in every way but just not Harvard Yale Princeton. That's the analogy. I am unbiased. Don't have a dog in this fight. That being said, if it were coed...it is not coed.

You are an ass.

[Anonymous]

Middlebury College has a significantly larger student population than Williams College. More students/faculty/administrators, etc. can make a school feel less isolated.

Middlebury may be a little larger, but isolated actually means "not near to other places" - both in the dictionary, and in the context of PP's inquiry. Middlebury is indisputably more geographically isolated than Williams.

Also, the gap in size isn't that significant. It's about 500-600 students (in total, not per year). And Williams, despite having fewer students, in fact has a larger academic staff than Middlebury, per the Common Data Set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams probably a little better academically but not tremendous difference. Can't go wrong. Does she want single sex school? Rural or suburban? These are the key questions. Are you applying for Aid? Maybe one gives a little more. Right play is ED 1 Williams and ED 2 Wells.

Nonsense that Williams is better. Both are top 5 LACs and would be tied if Wellesley were coed.

Now that's nonsense.