Hobart William Smith

[Anonymous]

My DS took a hard look at it.

This was in 2017.

As some previous posters have mentioned it is a small liberal arts college that historically catered to the private school set. Their student body was not filled with the academic superstars that go to Williams.

There student body is athletic and preppy.

There are actually two schools I believe Hobart is the boy’s school and William Smith is the girls.

Beautiful campus and quad.

Geneva is a little rough but the surrounding area is beautiful.

For those parents that understand the value of a liberal arts school they will understand the value.

They offered my son a nice merit aid package that made the school competitive.

Continue to do your homework on the school to see if it is a fit.

My DS chose Denison instead - mainly because of his over night experiences at both schools and Denison had a major that he wanted to pursue.

If you are looking at HWS I would also suggest you look at Denison btw. Very similar schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen it’s a school for a certain set. If you’re not familiar, there’s no convincing you, and it’ll probably piss you off

Kids are from NE affluent suburbs mostly private or boarding
Dads are Wall Street types
They weren’t superstars on high school but they did fine, partied, well liked, probably played a sport
They summer on Block Island, Vineyard etc
They know what scotch their dad likes best and will but it got a visit
Preppy with a NE bent (Patagonia, Birks)
Liberal

What will piss yiu iff is they will put in some effort and have done great teachers, graduate, and end up living pretty much their parents’ life in Rye, or Wellesley, or similar.

Reason: affluent , connected background, strong soft skills, play the right sports, smart enough, etc. you can hate it but this is still the reality for a certain population

I only visited but this sounds like what I overheard and observed. One guy mentioned his stock broker dad. Miss Preppy was visiting as a new student. All seemed liberal and rich. Money wasn’t an issue.

Completely spot on - I attended

[Anonymous]

It’s strange how there are some pig-headed DCUM commenters with obviously little or no person knowledge of a given college who will nonetheless insist that their ignorance (far from being something they should remedy) is compelling evidence that the school is undistinguished or inevitably destined for closure.

Hobart/WS is a well-regarded long-established SLAC that attracts a lot of kids from comfortably off northeastern families. It’s never been a peer of Williams or Amherst or Swarthmore - very few SLACs are - but not long ago it was seen as equal to or better than SLACs like Skidmore or Denison (which isn’t to denigrate them but to point out the Hobart isn’t - uniformed comments on this site notwithstanding - a no-name school). Per USNWR, today HWS is a peer of fairly well known SLACs like Reed and St Lawrence and ahead of SLACs like Wheaton (MA) and Lewis and Clark and most of the Virginia SLACs.

HWS hasn’t done as effective a job of marketing itself to students in recent years as some other SLACs, but given the college’s strengths that shouldn’t be irreversible. It’s hard to define buzz (especially for a smaller school where minor shifts can move the needle significantly). Geneva NY might not be Paris (or Aspen) but nor is Waterville ME or Granville OH, and those backwater locations haven’t prevented Colby or Denison from increasing in popularity. There will always be some students who are interested in a well-regarded SLAC in a pretty rural setting where students are mostly interested in preparing for a successful future. Not every kid wants to remake society, and not every applicant prioritizes access to shopping …

As for the prospect of bankruptcy, be serious. USNWR ranks HWS as one of the top 75 SLACs in the country, and WSJ ranks it as the #160 college or university of the nearly 4000 in the country. A number of private (and public) colleges will face serious financial challenges in the future, but that culling process is probably going to affect colleges in the ‘bottom 95%’ of American colleges a lot more than those ranked in the top 5%. Looking specifically at Hobart, HWS is better positioned than most SLACs to withstand those financial pressures because: HWS has a good sized endowment that is ranked as the 167th per-student in the country (again, of 4000 colleges and universities); HWS will potentially be strengthened by the exit of weaker SLACs from the scene; and HWS has alumni who are more prosperous than those from many peer schools and are more likely than those at many other schools to help it through any rough patch.

A pretty small, pretty rural SLAC isn’t for everyone, and if an applicant’s idea of college bliss is writing poetry and making ceramics, HWS probably isn’t the natural choice. But if an applicant’s stats align with Hobart’s, it could be a great place to spend four years and get a strong, well-regarded education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s strange how there are some pig-headed DCUM commenters with obviously little or no person knowledge of a given college who will nonetheless insist that their ignorance (far from being something they should remedy) is compelling evidence that the school is undistinguished or inevitably destined for closure.

Hobart/WS is a well-regarded long-established SLAC that attracts a lot of kids from comfortably off northeastern families. It’s never been a peer of Williams or Amherst or Swarthmore - very few SLACs are - but not long ago it was seen as equal to or better than SLACs like Skidmore or Denison (which isn’t to denigrate them but to point out the Hobart isn’t - uniformed comments on this site notwithstanding - a no-name school). Per USNWR, today HWS is a peer of fairly well known SLACs like Reed and St Lawrence and ahead of SLACs like Wheaton (MA) and Lewis and Clark and most of the Virginia SLACs.

HWS hasn’t done as effective a job of marketing itself to students in recent years as some other SLACs, but given the college’s strengths that shouldn’t be irreversible. It’s hard to define buzz (especially for a smaller school where minor shifts can move the needle significantly). Geneva NY might not be Paris (or Aspen) but nor is Waterville ME or Granville OH, and those backwater locations haven’t prevented Colby or Denison from increasing in popularity. There will always be some students who are interested in a well-regarded SLAC in a pretty rural setting where students are mostly interested in preparing for a successful future. Not every kid wants to remake society, and not every applicant prioritizes access to shopping …

As for the prospect of bankruptcy, be serious. USNWR ranks HWS as one of the top 75 SLACs in the country, and WSJ ranks it as the #160 college or university of the nearly 4000 in the country. A number of private (and public) colleges will face serious financial challenges in the future, but that culling process is probably going to affect colleges in the ‘bottom 95%’ of American colleges a lot more than those ranked in the top 5%. Looking specifically at Hobart, HWS is better positioned than most SLACs to withstand those financial pressures because: HWS has a good sized endowment that is ranked as the 167th per-student in the country (again, of 4000 colleges and universities); HWS will potentially be strengthened by the exit of weaker SLACs from the scene; and HWS has alumni who are more prosperous than those from many peer schools and are more likely than those at many other schools to help it through any rough patch.

A pretty small, pretty rural SLAC isn’t for everyone, and if an applicant’s idea of college bliss is writing poetry and making ceramics, HWS probably isn’t the natural choice. But if an applicant’s stats align with Hobart’s, it could be a great place to spend four years and get a strong, well-regarded education.

I agree with part of what you're saying but this is a school that has built up such a reputation for attracting rich private school kids who do lots of drugs over the past 10-15 years that it's going to be difficult to hang with the types of schools it would like to consider its peers. I know several kids who started at HWS and whose parents were hell-bent on their attending an expensive SLAC; each transferred within two years to less isolated schools.

[Anonymous]

People keep pretending it's some blue-blooded school attended by the elite. It just isn't, period. Very strange boosterism.

[Anonymous]

Back in the 70s and 80s it was super popular among nice kids at my public high school. The lax team won national championships and those men moved on to tight friendships and successful careers.

My older D had a good visit there but ultimately chose a D1 program at a Patriot League school.

For us, in Northern VA, it was also a difficult drive.

I’d classify it as similar to Gettysburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s strange how there are some pig-headed DCUM commenters with obviously little or no person knowledge of a given college who will nonetheless insist that their ignorance (far from being something they should remedy) is compelling evidence that the school is undistinguished or inevitably destined for closure.

Hobart/WS is a well-regarded long-established SLAC that attracts a lot of kids from comfortably off northeastern families. It’s never been a peer of Williams or Amherst or Swarthmore - very few SLACs are - but not long ago it was seen as equal to or better than SLACs like Skidmore or Denison (which isn’t to denigrate them but to point out the Hobart isn’t - uniformed comments on this site notwithstanding - a no-name school). Per USNWR, today HWS is a peer of fairly well known SLACs like Reed and St Lawrence and ahead of SLACs like Wheaton (MA) and Lewis and Clark and most of the Virginia SLACs.

HWS hasn’t done as effective a job of marketing itself to students in recent years as some other SLACs, but given the college’s strengths that shouldn’t be irreversible. It’s hard to define buzz (especially for a smaller school where minor shifts can move the needle significantly). Geneva NY might not be Paris (or Aspen) but nor is Waterville ME or Granville OH, and those backwater locations haven’t prevented Colby or Denison from increasing in popularity. There will always be some students who are interested in a well-regarded SLAC in a pretty rural setting where students are mostly interested in preparing for a successful future. Not every kid wants to remake society, and not every applicant prioritizes access to shopping …

As for the prospect of bankruptcy, be serious. USNWR ranks HWS as one of the top 75 SLACs in the country, and WSJ ranks it as the #160 college or university of the nearly 4000 in the country. A number of private (and public) colleges will face serious financial challenges in the future, but that culling process is probably going to affect colleges in the ‘bottom 95%’ of American colleges a lot more than those ranked in the top 5%. Looking specifically at Hobart, HWS is better positioned than most SLACs to withstand those financial pressures because: HWS has a good sized endowment that is ranked as the 167th per-student in the country (again, of 4000 colleges and universities); HWS will potentially be strengthened by the exit of weaker SLACs from the scene; and HWS has alumni who are more prosperous than those from many peer schools and are more likely than those at many other schools to help it through any rough patch.

A pretty small, pretty rural SLAC isn’t for everyone, and if an applicant’s idea of college bliss is writing poetry and making ceramics, HWS probably isn’t the natural choice. But if an applicant’s stats align with Hobart’s, it could be a great place to spend four years and get a strong, well-regarded education.

I’m the PP whose DS took a hard look at HWS and chose Denison instead. My family had very positive interactions with HWS for both my DS and a DD that applied. They did a lot of things right and their admissions folks were polished and professional.

I cannot speak to Colby but I think you miss the mark regarding Granville, OH. Given our experiences it is an asset to Denison as is their proximity to Columbus. And given that the new Intel chip plant is being built in Licking County between Granville and Columbus I believe the area will continue to help Denison.

Granville is a cute town that reminded my son of his hometown in Fairfield County, Connecticut. We had a lovely stay in the Granville Inn while we overnighted. It was picture perfect.

It is not my intent to oversell Denison. I understand it’s strength and weaknesses pretty well but Granville makes Denison an easy sell and Columbus is the 14th largest metro area in the country.

That all said as parents we believe in the SLAC approach to education. I found having gone through the process that the trick is to find the right fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is great all around. Smith is a top women's college but on the decline. Never heard of Hobart.

It’s a nice, respectable liberal arts college in a cute suburb of Rochester, New York. It’s a lot close to Toronto than to New York City. It gives out a lot of merit aid.
No one who has no idea what Williams will have heard about it will have heard of it, and no one goes around hating various colleges will respect it, but most people who’ve gone through college guides will say, “Oh; that’s one of those great little colleges that was too far away for us to visit.” But I think that whole Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Albany area is now a good place to look for nice, undervalued colleges.

Hobart and William Smith good for a rich student who wants a small, beautiful school and likes that area or can’t get into Williams-type schools, or for middle-income students who want a small, classy liberal arts school, get good merit aid, and have someone who understands college financial statements verify that the school will stay solvent.

My suspicion is that a lot of those schools are where they are partly because of efforts to protect the students from infectious illness. In the long run, those schools might have an easier time than big urban schools at keeping COVID under control and offering in-person classes.

Re: COVID, this school will not even admit whether it is still mandating vax and booster. Admissions office gives different responses to different people. School deleted the COVID info from its website. For pete's sake, if you're going to mandate, then state that. Anything less is obfuscation.

The idea that a small rural school can "control" COVID any differently than a large school is not reality. It is not "controllable," as most schools in other parts of the country have long understood. But sure, low-ranked schools should go ahead and mandate, and see how enrollment is next fall.

[Anonymous]

. Granville makes Denison an easy sell and Columbus is the 14th largest metro area in the country.

No, Columbus is the 32nd largest metro area in the country. It’s also the 14th largest ‘city’ in the country because Columbus city absorbed surrounding areas that are separately incorporated suburbs in other metro areas, but the former stat matters a lot more than the latter stat unless you happen to work for the Columbus city govt.

Geneva NY is twice the size of Granville, it’s right on one of the Finger Lakes, and it’s about as close to Rochester as Denison is to Columbus. The fundamental point isn’t that Granville is hell but that Geneva isn’t either. DMV pseudo-sophisticates are too quick to write off areas outside their comfort zone (and Ohio falls in that description just like upstate NY) that can actually be fun places to spend perhaps not a lifetime but four years of college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s strange how there are some pig-headed DCUM commenters with obviously little or no person knowledge of a given college who will nonetheless insist that their ignorance (far from being something they should remedy) is compelling evidence that the school is undistinguished or inevitably destined for closure.

Hobart/WS is a well-regarded long-established SLAC that attracts a lot of kids from comfortably off northeastern families. It’s never been a peer of Williams or Amherst or Swarthmore - very few SLACs are - but not long ago it was seen as equal to or better than SLACs like Skidmore or Denison (which isn’t to denigrate them but to point out the Hobart isn’t - uniformed comments on this site notwithstanding - a no-name school). Per USNWR, today HWS is a peer of fairly well known SLACs like Reed and St Lawrence and ahead of SLACs like Wheaton (MA) and Lewis and Clark and most of the Virginia SLACs.

HWS hasn’t done as effective a job of marketing itself to students in recent years as some other SLACs, but given the college’s strengths that shouldn’t be irreversible. It’s hard to define buzz (especially for a smaller school where minor shifts can move the needle significantly). Geneva NY might not be Paris (or Aspen) but nor is Waterville ME or Granville OH, and those backwater locations haven’t prevented Colby or Denison from increasing in popularity. There will always be some students who are interested in a well-regarded SLAC in a pretty rural setting where students are mostly interested in preparing for a successful future. Not every kid wants to remake society, and not every applicant prioritizes access to shopping …

As for the prospect of bankruptcy, be serious. USNWR ranks HWS as one of the top 75 SLACs in the country, and WSJ ranks it as the #160 college or university of the nearly 4000 in the country. A number of private (and public) colleges will face serious financial challenges in the future, but that culling process is probably going to affect colleges in the ‘bottom 95%’ of American colleges a lot more than those ranked in the top 5%. Looking specifically at Hobart, HWS is better positioned than most SLACs to withstand those financial pressures because: HWS has a good sized endowment that is ranked as the 167th per-student in the country (again, of 4000 colleges and universities); HWS will potentially be strengthened by the exit of weaker SLACs from the scene; and HWS has alumni who are more prosperous than those from many peer schools and are more likely than those at many other schools to help it through any rough patch.

A pretty small, pretty rural SLAC isn’t for everyone, and if an applicant’s idea of college bliss is writing poetry and making ceramics, HWS probably isn’t the natural choice. But if an applicant’s stats align with Hobart’s, it could be a great place to spend four years and get a strong, well-regarded education.

I mostly agree with this except you are dead wrong about Lewis & Clark. No way is HWS ahead of L&C, which had a very solid academic reputation (better than HWS). It is a little weird that you group L&C with Wheaton, actually. But otherwise, I think your post makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

I mostly agree with this except you are dead wrong about Lewis & Clark. No way is HWS ahead of L&C, which had a very solid academic reputation (better than HWS). It is a little weird that you group L&C with Wheaton, actually.

Lewis and Clark is indeed a good college with a very solid reputation. USNWR ranks it as #94 ‘national liberal arts college’ in the country, and ranks Wheaton (MA) as #89, and ranks Hobart & William Smith as #72 (tied with Oregon’s Reed, fwiw).

[Anonymous]

Trust fund college. IYKYK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I mostly agree with this except you are dead wrong about Lewis & Clark. No way is HWS ahead of L&C, which had a very solid academic reputation (better than HWS). It is a little weird that you group L&C with Wheaton, actually.

Lewis and Clark is indeed a good college with a very solid reputation. USNWR ranks it as #94 ‘national liberal arts college’ in the country, and ranks Wheaton (MA) as #89, and ranks Hobart & William Smith as #72 (tied with Oregon’s Reed, fwiw).

The USNWR rankings are fine, but I’m speaking from the perspective of grad school admissions, and as someone who did grad school admissions for a T20, I trust the academics at L&C more as far as being prepared for grad school. I don’t dislike HWS, I just don’t think it’s seen as rigorous in my world as L&C. It is a great SLAC though, and I am biased towards the quality of education kids get at SLACs in general.

[Anonymous]

. The USNWR rankings are fine, but I’m speaking from the perspective of grad school admissions,

Ok that’s your personal perspective, and is a good contribution to this thread. But given that USNWR is regarded both generally and on this site as one of the most widely cited college ranking benchmarks, it honestly seems a little strange for you to be calling PP ‘dead wrong’ or ‘weird’ for their citing the USNWR rankings (and not as authoritative assessments but explicitly stating they’re from USNWR, nothing more). If you want to talk about ‘reputation’ which almost by definition is a kind of collective assessment, you might not personally agree with USNWR but you can’t ignore it, or call someone ‘dead wrong’ for considering its findings to be germane to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

. The USNWR rankings are fine, but I’m speaking from the perspective of grad school admissions,

Ok that’s your personal perspective, and is a good contribution to this thread. But given that USNWR is regarded both generally and on this site as one of the most widely cited college ranking benchmarks, it honestly seems a little strange for you to be calling PP ‘dead wrong’ or ‘weird’ for their citing the USNWR rankings (and not as authoritative assessments but explicitly stating they’re from USNWR, nothing more). If you want to talk about ‘reputation’ which almost by definition is a kind of collective assessment, you might not personally agree with USNWR but you can’t ignore it, or call someone ‘dead wrong’ for considering its findings to be germane to the discussion.

Look, I had no idea about the USNWR rankings, honestly they are a bit surprising to me because they seem to be quite off. I don’t think anyone I know would rank those two that way. I’ve heard USNWR is heavily biased to the east coast so maybe that explains it, but in any event it is a surprise.

But really it doesn’t matter — I think HWS and L&C do an excellent job with undergrad education and kids from both are very well-prepared for graduate school.