DCI or Deal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, it just isn't true that students can't apply to DCPS application high schools without PARCC scores, not now, not ever.

We've opted out since 3rd grade yet child was admitted to SWW this year. We submitted SAT scores instead of PARCC with Walls application. Child took SAT in fall of 7th grade to submit as required component of Johns Hopkins CTY summer camp and scored high enough (low 600s after some prep) to access the camp. You just explain that you opted out on the Walls application, with supporting documentation (e.g. letter to Deal admins stating that you are opting out, perhaps with a few lines about why).

Students coming in from other public school systems or privates routinely apply to DCPS application high schools WITHOUT PARCC SCORES, along with the small and growing number of applicants whose parents have opted them out of PARCC.

People who opt out of PARCC but pay for test prep are amusing.

[Anonymous]

How do we know PP paid for test prep? Kids can prep for SAT for free on Khan Academy - KA has offered prep in partnership with the College Board for a couple years now.

What's amusing is when DC parents' see value in the PARCC, although every state that tested students with the straight-up PARCC (vs. a state-PARCC hybrid version) a decade back has dropped it by now.

Only DC still uses the original PARCC and this is the last year of the City' 5-year PARCC contract. More than 20 states have ditched the PARCC altogether because, er, it's a badly designed, absurdly long, corporate test. The SAT is both much shorter and more useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do we know PP paid for test prep? Kids can prep for SAT for free on Khan Academy - KA has offered prep in partnership with the College Board for a couple years now.

What's amusing is when DC parents' see value in the PARCC, although every state that tested students with the straight-up PARCC (vs. a state-PARCC hybrid version) a decade back has dropped it by now.

Only DC still uses the original PARCC and this is the last year of the City' 5-year PARCC contract. More than 20 states have ditched the PARCC altogether because, er, it's a badly designed, absurdly long, corporate test. The SAT is both much shorter and more useful.

And DC pays for every student to take the SAT. The SAT could be used to satisfy the high-school achievement requirement in ESSA - which would be a significant step forward. However, you can't give the SAT to 3rd-8th graders.

DC OSSE commissioned its own science standardized test because there isn't a parcc science test, and one is req'd by the Dept of Ed. The first version, which got all the way through year 2 of administration was scrapped at significant expense. So DC had to commission a second one. I don't think most people realize that in conjunction with PARCC students in several grades (not all) have been taking this test to validate and test the test. Results have never been publicly released. ids have been taking it for a couple of years now (not every year; it's an every other year test) but no results have ever been released.

Before that, we had DC CAS, which people complained about the same way as they do about PARCC. I don't think there is a perfect test. Just do something because we have to. I don't want any more $$ wasted on it.

[Anonymous]

How does opting out of PARCC affect the curriculum at DCPS?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Who said there is widespread cheating at Deal? Those comments were about Wilson.

Also, I believe the categories are formatives, homework and summatives.

Don’t forget the 50% policy

What is the 50% policy?

The only one I know of is that "No more than 50% of a summative task may be completed outside of class for seventh and eighth grade students."

It's at HS. A student who makes even a basic attempt at an assignment or test (anything but leaving it blank) receives 50%.

The same policy is in effect in MCPS too; it is a trend in public high schools to reflect effort and attempts. Or, some say, to boost graduation rates.

Terrible policy. Just take it and even if I get only 1 question right, I’ll get a 50%. This is grade inflation. Then Ill cheat and can still pass without knowing anything. Then take that into the equation for DC ranking (graduation rates) from 1-5 for their schools.

That may be the policy in MCPS, but that is absolutely NOT a policy at Deal. My kids have the zeros on assignments to prove it, sadly.

Yest but the gradebook automatically counts zeros as 50%, there is no such thing as a zero. The kids know ask them...

This is inaccurate

+1 Just look at Aspen and you can see that is not true. A zero is a zero.

Doesn't matter, DCPS is letter grades and an f = 63%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No booster wants to hear it, but advanced language classes at DCI aren't very advanced.

The biggest and most obvious problem is that kids can't learn to speak languages via one-way immersion, without native-speaking peers or ethnic communities involved. Few YuYing and Stokes graduates can speak Chinese and French passably let alone decently, and many of the graduates of the Spanish immersion feeders aren't a lot better. Also, so many of the immersion parents don't take the immersion seriously lower down the chain - they land in feeders mainly to avoid crappy DCPS by-right schools. As long as the push factors are stronger than the pull, the parents' collective commitment to immersion can only be so strong. Finally, the DCI feeders aren't well established. Most have only existed for a decade. They're still ironing out many kinks, particularly related to staff retention.

I speak fluent Mandarin, decent French and some Spanish. I recently volunteered at a series of events serving advanced students on all three advanced language tracks.

Sorry DCI parents, but I wasn't remotely impressed. My own bilingual children will go private after JKLM.

Not you again. Why volunteer if your only goal is to criticize and keep your own kids in a bubble?

[Anonymous]

I'm not the poster you're responding to. but I'll respond anyway because this person sounds logical. Telling 'em to go away won't change that.

If the DCI kids cant really speak languages they've been studying half their time in school for a freagin decade, something's broken. Something should be fixed.

To answer OP's Q, DEAL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're responding to. but I'll respond anyway because this person sounds logical. Telling 'em to go away won't change that.

If the DCI kids cant really speak languages they've been studying half their time in school for a freagin decade, something's broken. Something should be fixed.

To answer OP's Q, DEAL.

It’s obvious you don’t have a child in a language immersion school in DC or understand how languages work.

If there is no native speaking parent at home, the chances of that child being truly proficient in the language (vocabulary, reading, writing, etc..) depends not only on the child’s abilities but also the support outside of school. Just learning it in class is rarely enough. Outside support could be native speaking nannies, immersion camps, study abroad, etc...

So kids who start early and have native speaking parents usually do better. Just as kids who start early, don’t have native speaking parents but whose parents do lots of support outside of school tend to do better. Kids who start later (not all kids get in at preK), who are weak in ELA, or don’t have outside support are usually not as strong.

So you have different kids at different abilities and why DCI offers different level classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not the poster you're responding to. but I'll respond anyway because this person sounds logical. Telling 'em to go away won't change that.

If the DCI kids cant really speak languages they've been studying half their time in school for a freagin decade, something's broken. Something should be fixed.

To answer OP's Q, DEAL.

It’s obvious you don’t have a child in a language immersion school in DC or understand how languages work.

If there is no native speaking parent at home, the chances of that child being truly proficient in the language (vocabulary, reading, writing, etc..) depends not only on the child’s abilities but also the support outside of school. Just learning it in class is rarely enough. Outside support could be native speaking nannies, immersion camps, study abroad, etc...

So kids who start early and have native speaking parents usually do better. Just as kids who start early, don’t have native speaking parents but whose parents do lots of support outside of school tend to do better. Kids who start later (not all kids get in at preK), who are weak in ELA, or don’t have outside support are usually not as strong.

So you have different kids at different abilities and why DCI offers different level classes.

Yes the key, if the parents don’t speak the language at home, is parents commitment and providing outside support also. If the parents are not serious in committing their child to the language but putting their child there just to avoid DCPS schools, then the child will likely be weak in the language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do we know PP paid for test prep? Kids can prep for SAT for free on Khan Academy - KA has offered prep in partnership with the College Board for a couple years now.

What's amusing is when DC parents' see value in the PARCC, although every state that tested students with the straight-up PARCC (vs. a state-PARCC hybrid version) a decade back has dropped it by now.

Only DC still uses the original PARCC and this is the last year of the City' 5-year PARCC contract. More than 20 states have ditched the PARCC altogether because, er, it's a badly designed, absurdly long, corporate test. The SAT is both much shorter and more useful.

And DC pays for every student to take the SAT. The SAT could be used to satisfy the high-school achievement requirement in ESSA - which would be a significant step forward. However, you can't give the SAT to 3rd-8th graders.

DC OSSE commissioned its own science standardized test because there isn't a parcc science test, and one is req'd by the Dept of Ed. The first version, which got all the way through year 2 of administration was scrapped at significant expense. So DC had to commission a second one. I don't think most people realize that in conjunction with PARCC students in several grades (not all) have been taking this test to validate and test the test. Results have never been publicly released. ids have been taking it for a couple of years now (not every year; it's an every other year test) but no results have ever been released.

Before that, we had DC CAS, which people complained about the same way as they do about PARCC. I don't think there is a perfect test. Just do something because we have to. I don't want any more $$ wasted on it.

Whatever the test, you need a standardized test to administer from 3rd grade on to get some baseline sense of a student’s competency. We all know how students who are not competent are still passed and pushed thru in DCPS so they can get their graduation stats up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said there is widespread cheating at Deal? Those comments were about Wilson.

Also, I believe the categories are formatives, homework and summatives.

Don’t forget the 50% policy

What is the 50% policy?

The only one I know of is that "No more than 50% of a summative task may be completed outside of class for seventh and eighth grade students."

It's at HS. A student who makes even a basic attempt at an assignment or test (anything but leaving it blank) receives 50%.

The same policy is in effect in MCPS too; it is a trend in public high schools to reflect effort and attempts. Or, some say, to boost graduation rates.

Terrible policy. Just take it and even if I get only 1 question right, I’ll get a 50%. This is grade inflation. Then Ill cheat and can still pass without knowing anything. Then take that into the equation for DC ranking (graduation rates) from 1-5 for their schools.

That may be the policy in MCPS, but that is absolutely NOT a policy at Deal. My kids have the zeros on assignments to prove it, sadly.

Yest but the gradebook automatically counts zeros as 50%, there is no such thing as a zero. The kids know ask them...

This is inaccurate

+1 Just look at Aspen and you can see that is not true. A zero is a zero.

Doesn't matter, DCPS is letter grades and an f = 63%

Which is standard.

[Anonymous]

It’s obvious you don’t have a child in a language immersion school in DC or understand how languages work.

If there is no native speaking parent at home, the chances of that child being truly proficient in the language (vocabulary, reading, writing, etc..) depends not only on the child’s abilities but also the support outside of school. Just learning it in class is rarely enough. Outside support could be native speaking nannies, immersion camps, study abroad, etc...

So kids who start early and have native speaking parents usually do better. Just as kids who start early, don’t have native speaking parents but whose parents do lots of support outside of school tend to do better. Kids who start later (not all kids get in at preK), who are weak in ELA, or don’t have outside support are usually not as strong.

So you have different kids at different abilities and why DCI offers different level classes.

I see some parents at WIS or Rochambeau who value an additional language and enroll their kids there, in some cases the parents do not speak the language at all and not all of them have the resources to hire nannies, camps or study abroad. However their kids end up speaking the language very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s obvious you don’t have a child in a language immersion school in DC or understand how languages work.

If there is no native speaking parent at home, the chances of that child being truly proficient in the language (vocabulary, reading, writing, etc..) depends not only on the child’s abilities but also the support outside of school. Just learning it in class is rarely enough. Outside support could be native speaking nannies, immersion camps, study abroad, etc...

So kids who start early and have native speaking parents usually do better. Just as kids who start early, don’t have native speaking parents but whose parents do lots of support outside of school tend to do better. Kids who start later (not all kids get in at preK), who are weak in ELA, or don’t have outside support are usually not as strong.

So you have different kids at different abilities and why DCI offers different level classes.

I see some parents at WIS or Rochambeau who value an additional language and enroll their kids there, in some cases the parents do not speak the language at all and not all of them have the resources to hire nannies, camps or study abroad. However their kids end up speaking the language very well.

Oh come on. Ridiculous to compare WIS or Rochambeau to DCI. They are established expensive private schools with not only much more resources and smaller class sizes with more individualized instruction but also much higher percentage of high SES kids. Plus all those parents are committed to their child being bilingual and why they chose the school. In addition, a much larger percentage of parents are native speaking.

You want to play that unfair game, then let’s compare DEAL middle school to Sidwell’s or St. Albans then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're missing the crux of the problem. No GT programs in traditional schools in this City, no law on GT education in the District, no focus on challenging the brightest kids.

The only real challenge in a public middle school can be found at BASIS, and their facilities are weak, their curriculum inflexible and their approach fairly brutal.

Outside BASIS, most of us pay to supplement, a lot.

all this talk of supplementing has me wondering:
- how do you know when/if you need to supplement
- are we talking tutors?
- how to find a good tutor that is worth the $$?

I have kids at Deal and supplement. I'm moving one to a Big3 school. Why do we supplement? 1) My kids get As at Deal with very little effort. "Little effort" this past year meaning that they had one standing assignment per week but otherwise did no homework outside of class. They never studied for a test or quiz at home. Rarely (I'd say once a month) did they do a math problem outside of school. 2) They always get 5's on the 2 PARCCs (math and ELA). They score in the 99% of the city and high 90s in their upper NW schools on the PARCC. 3) their writing (as learned in DCPS) is fairly abysmal.
So we supplement at home and during the summer with extra ELA work and writing and they take writing classes outside of school during the year and during the summer.
I know MANY Deal parents who are supplementing heavily this summer. Most don't advertise it (and others look at us like we have two heads) but there is a ton of summer supplementing going on. Many kids taking classes outside of Deal, doing work-books, working with tutors, etc. etc.

This … and then Deal teachers or any teachers at the west of the park schools were much of this goes on get credit, test scores on PARCC etc and the rest of the city (admin) look to copy what they are doing for the other schools, when in reality it is nothing, it is the parents. This is why this whole testing and comparing schools is ridiculous, it means neither low or high students get what they need and in reality it is all a farce, or as DC teachers like to say "smoke and mirrors". The involved parents know the real deal with DCPS.

+1

DCPS is a disaster. The sooner you accept that fact, the easier it is to move forward with what choices you then have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s obvious you don’t have a child in a language immersion school in DC or understand how languages work.

If there is no native speaking parent at home, the chances of that child being truly proficient in the language (vocabulary, reading, writing, etc..) depends not only on the child’s abilities but also the support outside of school. Just learning it in class is rarely enough. Outside support could be native speaking nannies, immersion camps, study abroad, etc...

So kids who start early and have native speaking parents usually do better. Just as kids who start early, don’t have native speaking parents but whose parents do lots of support outside of school tend to do better. Kids who start later (not all kids get in at preK), who are weak in ELA, or don’t have outside support are usually not as strong.

So you have different kids at different abilities and why DCI offers different level classes.

I see some parents at WIS or Rochambeau who value an additional language and enroll their kids there, in some cases the parents do not speak the language at all and not all of them have the resources to hire nannies, camps or study abroad. However their kids end up speaking the language very well.

Oh come on. Ridiculous to compare WIS or Rochambeau to DCI. They are established expensive private schools with not only much more resources and smaller class sizes with more individualized instruction but also much higher percentage of high SES kids. Plus all those parents are committed to their child being bilingual and why they chose the school. In addition, a much larger percentage of parents are native speaking.

You want to play that unfair game, then let’s compare DEAL middle school to Sidwell’s or St. Albans then.

It's not ridiculous or unfair. What's ridiculous and unfair to public school families is the notion that substituting half-baked charter elementary language "immersion" and middle school "partial immersion" programs for popular neighborhood schools, particularly in great swathes of NE, is a smart move in this city.

When most of the families in "immersion" programs lack the resources, and/or the motivation, to support immersion study adequately let alone well, the results can only be poor. Throw in DC's myopic decision to fill each charter school with a single lottery (not the case in many states), which ensures that there are few native-speaking students in "immersion" programs, particularly for languages other than Spanish, and you've got a broad-based formula for weak results.

When PP's post that many DCI students speak the target languages poorly for kids who've spent as many as 8 or 9 years studying them at least 50% of the time they are enrolled in the program, they invariably get called names and told to shut up. This may make the critics feel better, but it doesn't change the boneheaded reality outlined in my first sentence. The arrangement is simply bad ed policy.