Donut family: Pay for T10 or go to state for almost free

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I'm not. I went to VT undergrad. I live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in DMV and I have some very noteworthy (famous) neighbors. Most of my neighbors graduated from a T10 school/Ivy. Our social circle is the same. We go to the same parties, galas, etc. My co-workers are a mix of state school grads and ivy grads. Once you land your first job, it really doesn't matter. Again, our President went to Univ. of Delaware and didn't come from wealth.


So the takeaway...if you went to a Top 10 school/Ivy you have a much higher chance of making it to the "most expensive neighborhoods in the DMV". You just said most of your neighbors went to those schools.

I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make...but it would resonate with the masses if you said few of your neighbors went to Top 10/Ivy.

dp.. hard to tell... how many of them have legacy or family wealth, as well? That plays into them ending up in a pricey neighborhood.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
DC was accepted to a T10, her dream school, but we ended up with little financial aid. We would have to pay about 60k per year. DC can go to UMD CP for at least a third of that and will likely have other lower cost options at less competitive schools. DC is in the arts but otherwise undecided. She may pursue arts or museum work down the line.

We are in our early fifties with relatively low retirement savings (300k). We have a down payment saved up for a house (about 250k). No other debt or money. We live in the DC area. We rent a small house.

HHI is now about 200k, in public service careers. It took us a while to get to this level. No inheritances or major increases in salary expected.

She is our only. We want to set her up as well as possible, especially since she is leaning towards a soft major. We want her to have the benefits of a strong degree down the line. We are struggling with whether to pay for the T10. We don’t want her taking on the debt. But we know retirement needs to be our priority.



Prioritize retirement and cashflow her instate tuition. Saddling your teenager with stupid amount of debt to get an arts degree is a terrible ROI. The best gift you can give your daughter is for them to not graduate with crippling debt, and for you not to ask her to take care of you in the future because you paid for her school.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I'm not. I went to VT undergrad. I live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in DMV and I have some very noteworthy (famous) neighbors. Most of my neighbors graduated from a T10 school/Ivy. Our social circle is the same. We go to the same parties, galas, etc. My co-workers are a mix of state school grads and ivy grads. Once you land your first job, it really doesn't matter. Again, our President went to Univ. of Delaware and didn't come from wealth.


So the takeaway...if you went to a Top 10 school/Ivy you have a much higher chance of making it to the "most expensive neighborhoods in the DMV". You just said most of your neighbors went to those schools.

I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make...but it would resonate with the masses if you said few of your neighbors went to Top 10/Ivy.

dp.. hard to tell... how many of them have legacy or family wealth, as well? That plays into them ending up in a pricey neighborhood.


As well as them having the jobs they have---their connections could easily be family connections, and they'd be in the same job if they went to State U as well. They very likely are connected irrelevant of where they attended college.
Anonymous
We are financially in a better situation than you, OP. We sent our kid to UMD over a T-10 college he got admitted to for his STEM major. We would rather that the money has been saved for our retirement.

Who will ever give my son $200K ever in life for free? That is the amount that we have saved by him going to UMD. And even if we just give him a car and 10-20K as seed money, it is going to be a huge leg up for him.

+ no student debt.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I'm not. I went to VT undergrad. I live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in DMV and I have some very noteworthy (famous) neighbors. Most of my neighbors graduated from a T10 school/Ivy. Our social circle is the same. We go to the same parties, galas, etc. My co-workers are a mix of state school grads and ivy grads. Once you land your first job, it really doesn't matter. Again, our President went to Univ. of Delaware and didn't come from wealth.


So the takeaway...if you went to a Top 10 school/Ivy you have a much higher chance of making it to the "most expensive neighborhoods in the DMV". You just said most of your neighbors went to those schools.

I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make...but it would resonate with the masses if you said few of your neighbors went to Top 10/Ivy.

dp.. hard to tell... how many of them have legacy or family wealth, as well? That plays into them ending up in a pricey neighborhood.


Legacy / family wealth is a misleading red herring. Many with "family wealthy" end up pissing away the money in substances. Your typical resident of an upscale DC neighborhood is mostly self-made or came from a UMC background that provided the stability to do well in life, which isn't the same as "family wealth." It does exist but not to the degree or level you might think. Family wealth doesn't tend to flock to DC. In DC it's corporate law partners, owners of successful small businesses, senior consultants married to other senior consultants. The gravy train is real.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:We are financially in a better situation than you, OP. We sent our kid to UMD over a T-10 college he got admitted to for his STEM major. We would rather that the money has been saved for our retirement.

Who will ever give my son $200K ever in life for free? That is the amount that we have saved by him going to UMD. And even if we just give him a car and 10-20K as seed money, it is going to be a huge leg up for him.

+ no student debt.

That's my kid, too, at UMD with merit.

If OP's DC goes to an expensive school for a low ROI degree, that is a very expensive emotional choice, rather than a logical one. And it will hurt both the child and parent in the long run. Parents will not have as much in their retirement fund, and the adult child will be saddled with debt. But hey, at least they have a pricey T10 degree.
Anonymous
Posters seem to be forgetting that OP’s DD applied ED and got in. She’s committed regardless of whether that’s best choice financially.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP easy solution have your daughter get married. Once married it will be based off her and her husband’s income.

Have her marry another 18 year old and he will also have zero income or assets.

The T10 will be free basically


Brilliant!


Do people do this? It's not a bad idea.
Anonymous
You cannot afford the top 10
Anonymous
Have you met with a financial advisor? Start there. Not just about the college question but about the retirement versus buying a house question and maybe others.
Anonymous
I'm not asking this in a mean way, but an actual honest question:

There seems to be a few PP's (and OP) who's kids "got into a T10 school but choose to go to state school due to funds".

My questions: Why did your child apply to schools you couldn't afford? How painful was turning that T10/dream school spot down? Why the mental and emotional gymnastics when you could've had your child apply to schools in your price range?

Seriously. That must've hurt. Its *so* hard to get into one of these schools as evidenced by the hundreds of threads saying so - your kids actually won the college lottery and you had to walk away. What a heartbreaker.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I went to T-10 for undergrad and grad. There was no shortage of grad students at the T-10 who'd gone to instate flagships for their undergrad.

If you are a bright kid from a nice UMC professional family, so many of the "insider knowledge" of a Ivy/T-10 education is going to be available to regardless of where you go to college. Because you come from that background where the information is effectively absorbed from your parents and your peers as you grow up. When I was in high school I even knew that PhDs were often funded by the colleges because I picked up that knowledge from my parents, their friends, and the older siblings of my own friends. And that was 20 years ago!

Being out in the real world I am surrounded by people who went to a wide range of schools and who have done extremely well. I'm not particularly impressed by a fancy college degree any more, especially not after the last few years. I do think there's been a real decline in grads from the elite schools. Not all of them, but their capabilities are not a given the way it was 20 or even 10 years ago.


PP here. I was a bright student from an UMC professional family. Dad is a lawyer. Mom is a physician.
I am a physician and work with a lot of people with PhD’s. I am aware that they are mostly funded by grants. What I wasn’t aware of is people paying tuition to get a PhD. I have never heard of that.
The previous poster who said she got a scholarship for her PhD thought of it as completely normal.

It turns out that this is something that happens only at elite schools. Her circle where it’s normal to pay for your PhD and my circle where it’s unheard of to pay for your PhD have very little overlap.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I'm not. I went to VT undergrad. I live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in DMV and I have some very noteworthy (famous) neighbors. Most of my neighbors graduated from a T10 school/Ivy. Our social circle is the same. We go to the same parties, galas, etc. My co-workers are a mix of state school grads and ivy grads. Once you land your first job, it really doesn't matter. Again, our President went to Univ. of Delaware and didn't come from wealth.


So the takeaway...if you went to a Top 10 school/Ivy you have a much higher chance of making it to the "most expensive neighborhoods in the DMV". You just said most of your neighbors went to those schools.

I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make...but it would resonate with the masses if you said few of your neighbors went to Top 10/Ivy.


The pp I was responding to said she went to state schools and couldn’t break into the circles of the T10 crowd. I’m saying that’s ridiculous. Plenty of state grads are high rollers in the big circles. Look at Forbes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Posters seem to be forgetting that OP’s DD applied ED and got in. She’s committed regardless of whether that’s best choice financially.


Yeah. I think people should start a new thread to make this debate (although it has been hashed out many times here).

OP 's title makes it seem like that is what her post is about, but it is duplicitous. She was masking trying to hold on to an ED acceptance (with financial aid which was in line with expected amount) with the hopes to leverage it as if it were RD. Hopes because kid wasn't even accepted to UMD when she posted. Just all sorts of trying to mask underhanded behavior.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Which T10 school?



+1 It matters, especially in the arts. Had I not attended a T-10 Ivy, I would not have received a full merit scholarship for the PhD (T-10 school), which resulted in exceptional training and led to highly quality research then a tenured professorship. A state school would not have positioned me well for success in a challenging and highly competitive field, which unfortunately often depends heavily on both prestige and quality of training.



I think a lot of this is true. I went to a state school for undergrad and medical school. I have a great job that I love, but I am in completely different circles from people who went to T10 schools.

For example, I didn’t know that there was such a thing as paying tuition to get a PhD. I had to google it just now. I have colleagues from all around the world, but people who go to these elite universities are in a completely different circle.


I'm not. I went to VT undergrad. I live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in DMV and I have some very noteworthy (famous) neighbors. Most of my neighbors graduated from a T10 school/Ivy. Our social circle is the same. We go to the same parties, galas, etc. My co-workers are a mix of state school grads and ivy grads. Once you land your first job, it really doesn't matter. Again, our President went to Univ. of Delaware and didn't come from wealth.


So the takeaway...if you went to a Top 10 school/Ivy you have a much higher chance of making it to the "most expensive neighborhoods in the DMV". You just said most of your neighbors went to those schools.

I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make...but it would resonate with the masses if you said few of your neighbors went to Top 10/Ivy.


The pp I was responding to said she went to state schools and couldn’t break into the circles of the T10 crowd. I’m saying that’s ridiculous. Plenty of state grads are high rollers in the big circles. Look at Forbes.


You indicated the price of admission is lots of wealth and then you said most of the people with whom you mix went to top 10/Ivy schools.

So, the inverse must be true…that fewer of the people with whom you mix at these high society functions went to state schools. They are also likely spread across many different state school vs a small number.

Considering the student population at 5 of these top 10 schools combined = 1 state flagship…again, that is a a backhanded endorsement of top 10 schools.

Also, the Forbes list also very much supports top schools as well. I mean the top 10 richest Americans is dominated by top 10 schools, and graduates of top 10 schools are massively over represented compared to the absolute number of graduates.

So, yes there are many on the Forbes 500 list outside of this group, but there are literally 1000x the number of total graduates from outside this group.
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