Age, Antrals, and Number of Cells You Had

[Anonymous]

I'm curious to know how age is related to the number of antral follicles you had... and especially to the number of cells of our embryos were. Do embryos for women with advanced age divide more slowly?


I'll start - 41, 1st cycle yielded 5 mature antrals, but all were 4 or 5 cell embies on Day 3. 2nd Cycle yielded 4 mature antrals, all were 5 or 6 cell embies on Day 3.

[Anonymous]

39 (40 in April)
16 antral follicles
22 eggs retrieved, 18 mature, 13 fertilized
most of my embryos werre 4 cells on day 2 (yesterday) and some at 5 and two at 2.
today is day 3 and I didn't get a fert report but I can imagine most of them are 8 cells.
My transfer will be on day 5 (Thursday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:39 (40 in April)
16 antral follicles
22 eggs retrieved, 18 mature, 13 fertilized
most of my embryos werre 4 cells on day 2 (yesterday) and some at 5 and two at 2.
today is day 3 and I didn't get a fert report but I can imagine most of them are 8 cells.
My transfer will be on day 5 (Thursday)

PP, wow, this is impressive for 39. Can I ask what meds you were on and which fertility center you went to?

[Anonymous]

pp here. I go to Shady Grove and was on 225iu gonal and 75iu menopur and was on the Lupron/stop protocol. My transfer is tomorrow and I am nervous. I do know that the older you are the slower your embryos divide and I hope my transfer is not pushed back to a day 6. The slower growing embryos are not as successful as the day 5 blasts.

[Anonymous]

Let me know how the embies do. Good luck and hope they divide well!

[Anonymous]

OP - I was just on another board and was reminded of a good study that came out of Stanford last year that found they could predict 70% of an IVF cycle's success by looking at 4 factors (in order of importance):

1) Total # of embryos retrieved (at least 6 is best)
2) Cleavage arrest rate on day 3 (less than 15% is best)
3) # of 8 cell embryos on day 3 (more than 4 is best)
4) Day 3 FSH levels (less than 5 is best)

Basically, the study concludes that these variables are more important predictors than age and diagnosis (other than a male factor diagnosis), and that looking at the group of embryos retrieved is more important than looking just at the quality of the embryos that were transfered. Obviously, age can play a role in a number of these factors, although my recollection (fuzzy on this) is that the study found that age did not play a role in cleavage arrest rate, which is the second most important factor.

Two important variables that the study did not consider (although they will do a follow up study) is use of assisted hatching and 5-day vs. 3 day transfers.

Anyway, I found this was a useful framework for me to use in reacting to the results of my upcoming cycle, so I wanted to share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I was just on another board and was reminded of a good study that came out of Stanford last year that found they could predict 70% of an IVF cycle's success by looking at 4 factors (in order of importance):

1) Total # of embryos retrieved (at least 6 is best)
2) Cleavage arrest rate on day 3 (less than 15% is best)
3) # of 8 cell embryos on day 3 (more than 4 is best)
4) Day 3 FSH levels (less than 5 is best)

Basically, the study concludes that these variables are more important predictors than age and diagnosis (other than a male factor diagnosis), and that looking at the group of embryos retrieved is more important than looking just at the quality of the embryos that were transfered. Obviously, age can play a role in a number of these factors, although my recollection (fuzzy on this) is that the study found that age did not play a role in cleavage arrest rate, which is the second most important factor.

Two important variables that the study did not consider (although they will do a follow up study) is use of assisted hatching and 5-day vs. 3 day transfers.

Anyway, I found this was a useful framework for me to use in reacting to the results of my upcoming cycle, so I wanted to share.

This is excellent information. Thanks for passing it on.
But do they know what else may affect these factors other than age? At 42, I have fewer than than 6 mature follicles each cycle, my FSH generally hovers around 8 (though this past cycle it was higher), and my embies have never been more than 6 cell on day 3.

[Anonymous]

No, essentially the study says that there are many factors regarding embryo development that are unknown - and that IVF success can be improved once scientists figure it out. For you, I would say that age correlates to your low mature follicle count (no offense - mine will probably be low, too). I always thought day 3 cell count was related to age, but the study doesn't support that.