Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

They sure don't

I have no idea why people keep mentioning school grades for travel soccer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

We dont know yet if theres going to be an official rule or not. I hope there is because it will make things so much easier if everyone is on the same page. Even if its just a "recommendation" that clubs roster younger players than the eligibility window with their grade in school team it will solve so many issues.

An 'official rule' or recommendation by who? Who is going to be making any 'official rules' on this lol?

Nothing has changed or will change except for the eligibility window. If that isn't clear by now then I'm not sure what to tell you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

If you are Aug-Dec, you can. That's the shift about to happen. Many players will be joining teams with players currently younger than them -- although likely the same grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

They sure don't

I have no idea why people keep mentioning school grades for travel soccer

It's pretty much one poster who brings up the idea every chance possible to argue about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

yes. They want to get their 2026s recruited by now. Then they work on the 2027s and follow with the 2028s. There will be an overlap, but generally they are looking at graduation year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

Here's what 1 top club is doing ... Taking grade into consideration but not as the driving factor ... https://arlingtonsoccer.com/programs/travel/age-group-transition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

yes. They want to get their 2026s recruited by now. Then they work on the 2027s and follow with the 2028s. There will be an overlap, but generally they are looking at graduation year.

And depending on their age, that might mean different teams. Two grades on a team are pretty common now -- likely less common with the switch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

yes. They want to get their 2026s recruited by now. Then they work on the 2027s and follow with the 2028s. There will be an overlap, but generally they are looking at graduation year.

Well great! Problem solved! Since the clubs have all agreed to group players by grade (now somehow even though I have never seen a team do this) we can move on from the question. Since this already happening you can forget about this thread and move on to something else!

[Anonymous]

It’s such a strange thing to get hung up on. If it impacts your kid, talk to your club. If they won’t play your kid with the correct grade, I’m sure there is a club out there at some level that will give you what you want. If it doesn’t impact your kid, stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s such a strange thing to get hung up on. If it impacts your kid, talk to your club. If they won’t play your kid with the correct grade, I’m sure there is a club out there at some level that will give you what you want. If it doesn’t impact your kid, stay out of it.

It is the same guy who wrecked the ECNL age change thread. It is a bummer because this thread could be useful to share what clubs are legitimately planning and when.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s such a strange thing to get hung up on. If it impacts your kid, talk to your club. If they won’t play your kid with the correct grade, I’m sure there is a club out there at some level that will give you what you want. If it doesn’t impact your kid, stay out of it.

It is the same guy who wrecked the ECNL age change thread. It is a bummer because this thread could be useful to share what clubs are legitimately planning and when.

Confirming again there is one poster derailing this thread.

My daughter is U13 at a very competitive ECNL club (not MA). There hasn't been a single world stated about the age change yet. I'm sure it's coming *soon* , but just another data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s such a strange thing to get hung up on. If it impacts your kid, talk to your club. If they won’t play your kid with the correct grade, I’m sure there is a club out there at some level that will give you what you want. If it doesn’t impact your kid, stay out of it.

It is the same guy who wrecked the ECNL age change thread. It is a bummer because this thread could be useful to share what clubs are legitimately planning and when.

Nope, I only posted on time and I didnt ask the question. I think theres probably 3-4 trying to get you to face reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s such a strange thing to get hung up on. If it impacts your kid, talk to your club. If they won’t play your kid with the correct grade, I’m sure there is a club out there at some level that will give you what you want. If it doesn’t impact your kid, stay out of it.

It is the same guy who wrecked the ECNL age change thread. It is a bummer because this thread could be useful to share what clubs are legitimately planning and when.

Nope, I only posted on time and I didnt ask the question. I think theres probably 3-4 trying to get you to face reality.

Well at least he’s self aware enough to know we are talking about him!

[Anonymous]

Did the McClean meeting happen yet? I’m curious as to what information they presented.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

If you are Aug-Dec, you can. That's the shift about to happen. Many players will be joining teams with players currently younger than them -- although likely the same grade.

The age groups are currently a 12 month period.
There are kids 11 months younger than others in their age group today

Why is 1-11 months age difference to be any different in Aug to July SY than Jan to Dec?