Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

We all know the answer to this... A September kid moving 'down' to play with their actual grade will always make more sense than trying to play up. Especially, as you note, teams are going to start to shift to load up on the oldest kids they can. Just like they do now with Q1s.

My kid is a September U16 at an MLSN team, starts almost every game, but he is the only fall birthday in the squad. Heck, with the biobands in the squad and in the teams he plays against he is often at an almost 2 year disadvantage. He wants to play HS and is sort of burned out by MLSN so we will be changing in the fall. Not sure where he will end up but, being able, for once, to actually get to play with and against kids in his own grade will be a breath of fresh air.

Your kid might find better options to get away the heavy travel grind and more fun. When my kids were starting out in u-littles, one of the dad had an older son that MLSN but he and his u-little teammates came back to the local club just to play for the old USYS state championship (and also do HS) -- which they ended up enjoying far more than the endless car rides and plane trips.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

We all know the answer to this... A September kid moving 'down' to play with their actual grade will always make more sense than trying to play up. Especially, as you note, teams are going to start to shift to load up on the oldest kids they can. Just like they do now with Q1s.

My kid is a September U16 at an MLSN team, starts almost every game, but he is the only fall birthday in the squad. Heck, with the biobands in the squad and in the teams he plays against he is often at an almost 2 year disadvantage. He wants to play HS and is sort of burned out by MLSN so we will be changing in the fall. Not sure where he will end up but, being able, for once, to actually get to play with and against kids in his own grade will be a breath of fresh air.

Your kid might find better options to get away the heavy travel grind and more fun. When my kids were starting out in u-littles, one of the dad had an older son that MLSN but he and his u-little teammates came back to the local club just to play for the old USYS state championship (and also do HS) -- which they ended up enjoying far more than the endless car rides and plane trips.

Yeah I hear you. I have an older one who is playing at an excellent D3 (and did not play MLSN or anything like that), so I already know he can easily play D3 or D2 without the grind (he has been to a ton of College IDs with his brother and the coaches already know him). The question was, could he play D1 and, at least where we are, MLSN1 is the only way in. I'm fine if he wants to move on from that but I also don't want him kicking himself further down the line (like in a year or two) when no D1s come knocking.

The other issue is all of local USYS options will want him to play up at least one or two years next year lol (if he plays for them).

[Anonymous]

Its fun reading the "its ok to play at a lower level" parents get slapped in the face with reality by parents that know you cant expect to play at the highest level in college when you play in the 2nd tier as a youth.

Unfortunately the grind is going to happen no matter what. Some players want it more than others. Which is fine. When this happens you adjust your expectations accordingly.

[Anonymous]

The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its fun reading the "its ok to play at a lower level" parents get slapped in the face with reality by parents that know you cant expect to play at the highest level in college when you play in the 2nd tier as a youth.

Unfortunately the grind is going to happen no matter what. Some players want it more than others. Which is fine. When this happens you adjust your expectations accordingly.

It helps if you talk about specific age groups here. The argument is very different at U15 vs U9. If you can't see that, then I can't help you. "Grind and want at more at U9 LOL"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

8/1 - 7/31. Birthday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

Are you asking if allowing players to play up is at the discretion of the club??? This is what happens today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

The way it worked pre 2017 (went clubs switched to BY) was the "better" higher level of competition clubs would always roster younger than the eligibility window players with their grade in school team. Other not as competitive clubs would let players play down a grade but everyone knew that if this player wanted to get recruited and play in college that they'd have to play up with their grade eventually. When this happens its usually easiest to switch clubs. So in the end it just makes more sense to roster young grade up players on the A or B team thats their grade in school.

One other thing, ten years ago there wasnt such a push by parents to redshirt and play down. In fact it was the opposite everyone wanted to play up which is sonehting US Soccer exploited to implement BY.

This isn’t true, absolutely not what was done pre 2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Do clubs group players by grades now to help being recruited? Not that I am aware of...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

So you are saying it is a soft rule (ie at the discretion of each club) vs hard. Does anyone know that for fact? I think this has a big part in the spirit of the conversation you are having with your kid.

We dont know yet if theres going to be an official rule or not. I hope there is because it will make things so much easier if everyone is on the same page. Even if its just a "recommendation" that clubs roster younger players than the eligibility window with their grade in school team it will solve so many issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my August 2012 8th grader doesn’t play ‘up’ with her current team next year, she’s switching to volleyball and crew. It’s her call. If she played ‘down’ next year she’d miss a lot of practices because she’d also be playing on her high school team.

I’ve been honest with her since the podcast last year. I have no preference, just want her to be happy.

Back to update that our club is going by grade for the August kids. So my August 8th grader is happy but the 2 August 7th graders on her team are not. The club reviewed all ages and essentially all teams will remain at the same level of competitiveness (ECNL and ECRL) after the shifts except one of our 2010 teams, which will have a pretty significant talent hole they will need to fill.

And it begins....

This is exactly what I said would occur. Clubs will make young Aug/Sept players play on an A or B team thats their grade in school.

Looks like SY+30 guy was right all along.

That's fine, he's wrong about the rule part, tho!

What part is he wrong? If clubs make young Aug players play on a team thats their grade in school its the same thing as SY+30 with a 9/1 cutoff. Actually its better because all Aug and younger players (Sept, Oct, Nov. etc) have to play with their grade.

Just read the Arlington FAQ. Some clubs will just do it. Others won't. It's not a league rule. Flexibility is given. That's what he/you are wrong about.

Ahhh.... So the hill you've chosen to die on is that its not a written rule. But, you dont know this because the 2026/27 season rulebook hasn't been released yet.

Nevermind that clubs are grouping young Aug/Sept birthdays by grade.

But you were the one going on and on and on and on about how it was going to be and had to be a rule.

There might be a rule we dont know yet. But either way it doesn't matter. Clubs will group young Aug/Sept players by grade.

This is your main problem. You take 1 anonymous post and assume that's how it'll be everywhere whereas we have a major club saying it'll be case-by-case and you don't believe it. Confirmation bias at it's finest. That said, I'm willing to admit some or many clubs might generally force players up more as a wink and a nod. You seem not be able to handle such nuance just because you want to argue. That's why so many people find these back-and-forths not helpful.

Im not trying to argue Im explaining what WILL happen at the most competitive clubs. You might see smaller less competitive clubs try to cut corners by playing players down a grade for wins but everyone knows eventually those players will need to play with their grade if they want to get recruited to play in college. Top clubs will want to invest in players that will stay with the club and their team. Also they dont want to deal with the drama that comes with grade older players playing down. Its just more trouble than its worth. If you have 5-10 potential players for each position theres no need to allow playing down a grade. Once a couple of top clubs ban playing down. Other clubs will adopt the same policies.

It's also drama forcing players to play up an age group. Neither situation is ideal. It's lesser known reason why people didn't like SY in the first place and welcomed BY (beyond the whole it's for the national team thing). You chide people for not looking at what happened before but you also have rose-colored glasses.

This is what B teams are for. Eventually if they're good enough they'll find their way to an A team.

With this line of thinking, you might as well have the kid just repeat a grade in school (which they shouldn't have to do).

Many will choose to do this even if they're a starter on a grade up team. Unfortunately SY allows this one edge case

Like others have relevantly asked: Will those Aug-Dec starters still be starters if they stay as the Aug-Dec olders join? Parents shouldn't be so entitled.

Do players start now in BY based on their birth month or based on their performance and the coach's needs?

Birth month from the teams I have seen. Q4 mostly on bench now should switch to Q2 on bench under SY.

Causation vs Correlation

No coach looks at their roster and select players by birth month
They select by performance

If the best 9 or 11 are born in Q1 because of the team make-up selection process, then that's the illusion

They select on size, aka birth month, not performance.

This really depends on the team/coach. A team with younger players in the age group who start on average right now (there are exceptions of course) are more apt to try to play possession and defense to compete. The question remains, when the age group shifts, does it make more sense for those kids to move to the younger age group OR stay on their current team and likely be at a greater disadvantage from teams who load up on the bigger, older more athletic types.

You can't just choose a younger age group now. So how can you just choose a younger age group with SY?

If you're October 2013 and a U14 next year, how can you just choose to play U13 when you're a U14?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one part I am not sure how it will plan out are kid who are young for their team but a grade older than the other Q4s. For example, a September birthday who is in 6th grade. Do they stay with the 6th graders or have an option to play with 5th graders? If the intent is for school year alignment then it seems that there is two cascading criteria, but I am not sure if this is a hard or soft rule. Birthday and then school year or is really only based on your birthday.

Clubs that want to set their players up for being recruited and playing in college will put young Aug/Sept birthday players on the team thats their grade in school.

Which clubs prioritize putting individual kids in college?

So there's young Aug/Sept kids and old Aug/Sept kids?