New school start times survey

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only that, but the studies that show the need for later start times for middle schoolers include 6th grade. 5th graders have almost the same effects seen.

Basically moving the elementary to the early start times would still be “harming” 2 grade levels, along with the other issues of starting elementary so early.

Thank you for finally saying this! I keep thinking, these changes just “solve” the sleep problem for grades 7 and 8 while shifting the same problem to grades 5 and 6! So dumb.

So then option 2 really is the best one. No one is harmed sleep wise. The only issue is before care for working parents?

Every parent who is claiming option 2 is better should go visit a late ES at 3:15. It is hard enough getting them to learn anything between 3:00-4:00. Add in an extra 30 mins? The hardest hour of my day is the last hour because my kids need to be doing benchmark and they are done. Neither option is acceptable.

So maybe schools can get creative with the last hour of the day. Put specials, recess, homework time, read aloud etc. then kids are dismissed and have no homework. I actually think it could work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only that, but the studies that show the need for later start times for middle schoolers include 6th grade. 5th graders have almost the same effects seen.

Basically moving the elementary to the early start times would still be “harming” 2 grade levels, along with the other issues of starting elementary so early.

Thank you for finally saying this! I keep thinking, these changes just “solve” the sleep problem for grades 7 and 8 while shifting the same problem to grades 5 and 6! So dumb.

So then option 2 really is the best one. No one is harmed sleep wise. The only issue is before care for working parents?

Every parent who is claiming option 2 is better should go visit a late ES at 3:15. It is hard enough getting them to learn anything between 3:00-4:00. Add in an extra 30 mins? The hardest hour of my day is the last hour because my kids need to be doing benchmark and they are done. Neither option is acceptable.

So maybe schools can get creative with the last hour of the day. Put specials, recess, homework time, read aloud etc. then kids are dismissed and have no homework. I actually think it could work.


No it would not. Kids are required to have certain hours of each subject. Specials are all day and so is recess. Spaces are shared. So one grade level has specials each hour of the day. Grade levels have different recess times because you can’t have 700 kids sharing a playground space. You clearly have no idea what scheduling is like in an ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not only that, but the studies that show the need for later start times for middle schoolers include 6th grade. 5th graders have almost the same effects seen.

Basically moving the elementary to the early start times would still be “harming” 2 grade levels, along with the other issues of starting elementary so early.

Thank you for finally saying this! I keep thinking, these changes just “solve” the sleep problem for grades 7 and 8 while shifting the same problem to grades 5 and 6! So dumb.

So then option 2 really is the best one. No one is harmed sleep wise. The only issue is before care for working parents?

Well, no.

Morning sleep needs to be balanced with kids ability to learn AND be active. The afternoons would be absolutely useless. Nothing but behavior management. It’s too late. Plus leaves so little time for activities and outdoors/ unstructured play after school. Especially in winter. The last thing we need to to get rid of young kids sliver of outside and activity time.

Young kids lives are not supposed to be get read for school, school, dinner, bed for 5 days a week. It’s cruel and would have enormous repercussions.

And no, the extra time in the morning isn’t a time where they can have that same kind of time.

[Anonymous]

Reid stated in the STAC (employee grievance meeting) that start time changes are likely off the table for next year because there is too much that is changing.

Employee: “ There was no place in the survey for us to give additional feedback - only scales were available. It would be nice to have a comment field.”

Dr. Reid - “only budget neutral options that our model could actually work. A couple were presented as almost budget neutral, but didn’t work when they tested them. 9th of October we will be looking at this again and we will bring it to the board Oct. 25. I don’t want to recommend that this is something we should budget for while we are in such a tight budget. I am proposing that we should take more time on this. We started the boundary process, bought a process, thought about adding AAP to every MS and doing new routing software for 1600 buses and 4500 stops. I think the more responsible thing to do right now is to pause and then approach it again down the road.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reid stated in the STAC (employee grievance meeting) that start time changes are likely off the table for next year because there is too much that is changing.

Employee: “ There was no place in the survey for us to give additional feedback - only scales were available. It would be nice to have a comment field.”

Dr. Reid - “only budget neutral options that our model could actually work. A couple were presented as almost budget neutral, but didn’t work when they tested them. 9th of October we will be looking at this again and we will bring it to the board Oct. 25. I don’t want to recommend that this is something we should budget for while we are in such a tight budget. I am proposing that we should take more time on this. We started the boundary process, bought a process, thought about adding AAP to every MS and doing new routing software for 1600 buses and 4500 stops. I think the more responsible thing to do right now is to pause and then approach it again down the road.”

FWIW this was 10/1 that she stated this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reid stated in the STAC (employee grievance meeting) that start time changes are likely off the table for next year because there is too much that is changing.

Employee: “ There was no place in the survey for us to give additional feedback - only scales were available. It would be nice to have a comment field.”

Dr. Reid - “only budget neutral options that our model could actually work. A couple were presented as almost budget neutral, but didn’t work when they tested them. 9th of October we will be looking at this again and we will bring it to the board Oct. 25. I don’t want to recommend that this is something we should budget for while we are in such a tight budget. I am proposing that we should take more time on this. We started the boundary process, bought a process, thought about adding AAP to every MS and doing new routing software for 1600 buses and 4500 stops. I think the more responsible thing to do right now is to pause and then approach it again down the road.”

Yup! I think every thing will stay status quo as it should until EVERYBODY can get to school within the hours between 8:00-4:00.

[Anonymous]

Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reid stated in the STAC (employee grievance meeting) that start time changes are likely off the table for next year because there is too much that is changing.

Employee: “ There was no place in the survey for us to give additional feedback - only scales were available. It would be nice to have a comment field.”

Dr. Reid - “only budget neutral options that our model could actually work. A couple were presented as almost budget neutral, but didn’t work when they tested them. 9th of October we will be looking at this again and we will bring it to the board Oct. 25. I don’t want to recommend that this is something we should budget for while we are in such a tight budget. I am proposing that we should take more time on this. We started the boundary process, bought a process, thought about adding AAP to every MS and doing new routing software for 1600 buses and 4500 stops. I think the more responsible thing to do right now is to pause and then approach it again down the road.”

Yup! I think every thing will stay status quo as it should until EVERYBODY can get to school within the hours between 8:00-4:00.

I'm fine with ES starting before 8a (as are sleep scientists) and wish they'd stop kicking the can down the road and get both MS/HS start times aligned with the science and starting no earlier than 830a.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Hold on…they extended the survey through 10/6. How can they have results already???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Doesn’t matter. Surveys are for show. Reid will do what Reid wants to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Doesn’t matter. Surveys are for show. Reid will do what Reid wants to do.

Well she will do nothing and this is something I can actually agree with her on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Doesn’t matter. Surveys are for show. Reid will do what Reid wants to do.

Well she will do nothing and this is something I can actually agree with her on.

+1. Doing nothing on this one will be a win for Reid. But - they still shouldn’t make results public before the survey has closed. Tell me my input doesn’t matter without telling me my input doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are going with option 2, as it only shifts everyone by 30 minutes.

That 30 minutes takes late start elementary schools (9:20 am right now) from late but reasonably doable to a completely unreasonable 9:50-4:35. There's no way that lower elementary kids are going to be functionally learning until 4:35 pm, especially if a lot of them are up early to be dropped at before care so their parents can make it to work.

The only reasonable option is leaving things as is.

This was brought up at our community conversation and they agreed a 9:50 start time is not good for ES, so don’t think it will be happening.

But yet a 7:30 am start time isn’t good for middle school.

No one is disagreeing, but middle school is 2 years while ES ranges from preschool to grade 6. There are 141 ES and only and 25 middle schools. The 9:20-4:05 schedule already sucks with young kids. There are no schools in the US that have ES kids starting school at 9:50 (almost 10:00). They should choose neither plan.

Not only that, but the studies that show the need for later start times for middle schoolers include 6th grade. 5th graders have almost the same effects seen.

Basically moving the elementary to the early start times would still be “harming” 2 grade levels, along with the other issues of starting elementary so early.

Please quote all these studies that say 10 turning 11 year olds (fifth graders) cannot handle an early start time and that they would be harmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Doesn’t matter. Surveys are for show. Reid will do what Reid wants to do.

+1. You will learn to ignore the surveys. Both of mine are in HS. They have been giving surveys and ignoring results since the beginning of time. I don’t participate or look at results now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Survey results here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/DM4TY27994F1/$file/K-12%20School%20Start%20Times%20Project%20Update%20_.pdf

Hold on…they extended the survey through 10/6. How can they have results already???

These top-line glances are very easy to pull. Nothing here is deep analysis.