Does everyone on here with kids applying to top 50 schools really have the $80K per year to spend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I get that $90K is a rounding error for some on here and two weeks' salaries for others.

But I bet that for most of us, $360K is not an insignificant amount.
And yet we're fighting each other for the privilege of paying it.

We are truly idiots for playing into this. Excuse my insult as I include myself in that group.

OP, you had many chances to get there with so little money. When Netflix raised their DVD monthly rental from $7 to $11, it was time to buy Netflix stock. When Apple came out with Iphone, you still had several years to buy the stock to get to $360k. When you were shopping on Amazon, you should have been buying the stock. All in all, ca $30k in any one of them, would have taken you there.
There are so many other companies that were clearly going to do well.
I started really late like in 2020 because of work and visa problems.Almost 20 years down the drain, and I still made it. My older one doesn't want me pay that much for college and wants to go to community college. Younger one is about to get $300k, but outside of 529 ofcourse. Younger DC has 10 years til college. We were never high earners. We had to make money work for us even if we knew nothing about it. Well, almost nothing. It's extremely good time to be in the market and/or enter the market now to forever. Not a financial advice.

First of all, not everyone is a savvy investor. And I'll go further than not many people know much about investing at all. So good for you? But you're expected a tremendous amount of financial know-all for most people. I grew up pretty poor and I can tell you I didn't have any sort of "investing" until I was nearly 30. Partly due to my debt (school) to income ratio and partly due to just not knowing.

Second, you imply that people should give up any sort of luxury, however small, to fund college. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Colleges are overpriced. Loans are predatory. And yet, despite what we say about "you can do well at any college" there aer many that will only hire from ivies, top tiers, etc. I saw that first hand in my own line of work. So people have valid reasons to want those schools.

Where did you work that would only hire from "ivies, top tiers, etc"? Because there really are not many areas that are like that. People do NOT have valid reasons to want those schools. There are literally only ~50-60K freshman matriculating at T25 schools each year. Yet millions of people are happy, succesful in their careers. Do the math, majority of them did not attend T25 schools.

At my aged agency- my incoming class I had 6 Ivy alum and me and two others with state university degrees. We all came in sane grade/step and all make the same 25 years later.

Do they still hire mostly from Ivies/T25 currently? Were those 6 Ivy alums hired because they had actual connections at your aged agency or just because they were Ivy Alums? Because it's very likely many Ivy alums have parent/family connections already and might have gotten that same job even if they went to State U

Ironically, you proved the point that you all make the same are at the same grade now, so really it doesn't matter where you went---quality workers come from any college.

[Anonymous]

“I understand what you are trying to say, but your example is that you need to be the superstar at Oklahoma just to get to the same place as the average Harvard kid. “

The optimistic point is that you make the most of what you’ve got, & that even if you end up at a place that doesn’t look great on a rear window decal, that doesn’t mean the game is over, you lose, & you’ll be working at the Gap forever.

The “duh” point is if you think these lower-ranked schools are so pathetic, then it should be easier for your little Einstein to stick out. Just don’t be surprised if the students at South Alabama aren’t quite as stupid as you think they will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Any kid who can get into a "T10" school is likeliest going to succeed no matter where they go. Even to a state school that is not within the artificial list of T50 schools that a newspaper creates every year.”

This might be one of the most important things in this discussion…if your kid is Ivy material but somehow ends up at U of Oklahoma, make the most of it.

If kid is that special, get a high GPA, get in an honors program, get name on some research, get super recommendations from professors, take advantage of professors’ and dean’s’ connections around the world, win awards for academic excellence, get ahead of the game credit-wise so u can undertake some master’s program they might let super achievers into. On and on.

Even mediocre big public universities get their share of really smart students & have ways of keeping them entertained & challenged. Be resourceful in letting it be known that you are happy to be there but would happier if you could explore special opportunities.

+10000

Where you go does not matter, it's what you do while you are there.

90-95% of the kids at T25 schools would have similar outcomes after college no matter where they go. It's their drive, motivation and desire to learn and achieve great things that got them there and that will also get them far in life. Plenty of really smart kids go to their state U and join the honors program or go to a private university "1 step down" that gives them a debt free/extremely affordable college education. Don't kid yourself---the differences between a school ranked 30 and one ranked 80 are not that big.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools love full pay suckers.

People who pay little or nothing love them, also!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is an athlete and it ended up being about $40K/year after scholarships.

If he is athlete, why did he pay? What sport? What Division?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I understand what you are trying to say, but your example is that you need to be the superstar at Oklahoma just to get to the same place as the average Harvard kid. “

The optimistic point is that you make the most of what you’ve got, & that even if you end up at a place that doesn’t look great on a rear window decal, that doesn’t mean the game is over, you lose, & you’ll be working at the Gap forever.

The “duh” point is if you think these lower-ranked schools are so pathetic, then it should be easier for your little Einstein to stick out. Just don’t be surprised if the students at South Alabama aren’t quite as stupid as you think they will be.

You missed what I was saying. The PP was saying you can graduate from Oklahoma and end up doing well in life…however, their example basically said you have to be the absolute tops in the class just to get to the place as the average Harvard kid.

I don’t think that is true and detracted from what they were trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I get that $90K is a rounding error for some on here and two weeks' salaries for others.

But I bet that for most of us, $360K is not an insignificant amount.
And yet we're fighting each other for the privilege of paying it.

We are truly idiots for playing into this. Excuse my insult as I include myself in that group.

OP, you had many chances to get there with so little money. When Netflix raised their DVD monthly rental from $7 to $11, it was time to buy Netflix stock. When Apple came out with Iphone, you still had several years to buy the stock to get to $360k. When you were shopping on Amazon, you should have been buying the stock. All in all, ca $30k in any one of them, would have taken you there.
There are so many other companies that were clearly going to do well.
I started really late like in 2020 because of work and visa problems.Almost 20 years down the drain, and I still made it. My older one doesn't want me pay that much for college and wants to go to community college. Younger one is about to get $300k, but outside of 529 ofcourse. Younger DC has 10 years til college. We were never high earners. We had to make money work for us even if we knew nothing about it. Well, almost nothing. It's extremely good time to be in the market and/or enter the market now to forever. Not a financial advice.

First of all, not everyone is a savvy investor. And I'll go further than not many people know much about investing at all. So good for you? But you're expected a tremendous amount of financial know-all for most people. I grew up pretty poor and I can tell you I didn't have any sort of "investing" until I was nearly 30. Partly due to my debt (school) to income ratio and partly due to just not knowing.

Second, you imply that people should give up any sort of luxury, however small, to fund college. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Colleges are overpriced. Loans are predatory. And yet, despite what we say about "you can do well at any college" there aer many that will only hire from ivies, top tiers, etc. I saw that first hand in my own line of work. So people have valid reasons to want those schools.

Where did you work that would only hire from "ivies, top tiers, etc"? Because there really are not many areas that are like that. People do NOT have valid reasons to want those schools. There are literally only ~50-60K freshman matriculating at T25 schools each year. Yet millions of people are happy, succesful in their careers. Do the math, majority of them did not attend T25 schools.

At my aged agency- my incoming class I had 6 Ivy alum and me and two others with state university degrees. We all came in sane grade/step and all make the same 25 years later.

Do they still hire mostly from Ivies/T25 currently? Were those 6 Ivy alums hired because they had actual connections at your aged agency or just because they were Ivy Alums? Because it's very likely many Ivy alums have parent/family connections already and might have gotten that same job even if they went to State U

Ironically, you proved the point that you all make the same are at the same grade now, so really it doesn't matter where you went---quality workers come from any college.

That was my point!! They hire from everywhere. In my field, most have a graduate degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These schools may not offer merit aid, but they all offer need based aid and many are need blind. What's the issue?

Because donut hole families in high cost areas are screwed!!

Their kid can get into Ivies, Hopkins, etc., but will have to be full pay at $85-90k because at $175k HHI they aren’t considered in need. $360k for each kids’ undergrad is not doable without major loans even with $150k in each 529. In fact, the asserts and 529 count against them too.

Someone making $175k will receive significant aid at an Ivy. Not sure why folks continue to spread this myth.

This. Our HHI was around 190k and our kid got substantial aid. We live very, very frugally and had saved most of the ~55k/year that was our contribution. The top schools give aid packages that don't include loans, so while we still live very simply, our child received a fantastic education with no debt.

you'll receive aid as long as you have "typical assets" which for most ivy league schools is about 200k outside retirement. we maybe 150k HHI and got zero aid from Princeton, one of the more generous schools.

Sorry you had too much wealth in assets?

Yeah, I guess. No home equity and my retirement accounts are just okay, but I had about 350k in my investment account. I should have bought a place and "hid" my money in a house, I guess. DC didn't take Princeton and the debt that came along w it.

I thought some schools took home value into account. We were told what we have in 529s abs our home equity (just not retirement savings) would be a mark against us for aid.

My kids didn't apply to those super-selective schools but my close friend's kid did. She said they were offered very little aid and when she discussed it with the financial aid offices they told her they should just take out a home equity loan to pay for it. We're in an area where we paid pretty low prices for our homes 20 years ago and now they are worth $1M+.

+1 we worked our butts off to be able to afford a large down payment on our house so that our PITI could be smaller. That means we have a lot of equity in the house. Taking out the equity means refi, and that means higher loan amount. This is no different than the college telling you to take out student loans. You also end up losing that equity you built up for your retirement.

so yea, donut hole families don't get anything.

With today's interest rates---no frickin' way!! And even without them, there is no way in h*ll I'd take out a home equity loan to pay for college. Ridiculous that is the expectation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These schools may not offer merit aid, but they all offer need based aid and many are need blind. What's the issue?

Because donut hole families in high cost areas are screwed!!

Their kid can get into Ivies, Hopkins, etc., but will have to be full pay at $85-90k because at $175k HHI they aren’t considered in need. $360k for each kids’ undergrad is not doable without major loans even with $150k in each 529. In fact, the asserts and 529 count against them too.

Someone making $175k will receive significant aid at an Ivy. Not sure why folks continue to spread this myth.

This. Our HHI was around 190k and our kid got substantial aid. We live very, very frugally and had saved most of the ~55k/year that was our contribution. The top schools give aid packages that don't include loans, so while we still live very simply, our child received a fantastic education with no debt.

The aid packages say no loans, but that plenty still have to take them. We have a similar HHI and two kids, so they will be taking loans if they want to go to a school that costs more than our EFC. I would love to meet the person who managed to save twice their current hhi in addition to funding retirement

You're responding to me. Granted that I don't think we could have done it with two kids. Our limited resources were the reason we stopped at one. For my family, being able to pay for a superior undergraduate education even though we're government/non-profit types was part of a large plan with many moving parts.

Really you just need to have a plan. If T25 schools are your goal (assuming your kid has the resume), then you need to plan and save. It's also just fine to only save for state schools and tell your kid "you have $35-40K/year for college. Lets find the best fit for you at or below that price" Because there are plenty of excellent schools out there and if you step down just a level you will get great merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I get that $90K is a rounding error for some on here and two weeks' salaries for others.

But I bet that for most of us, $360K is not an insignificant amount.
And yet we're fighting each other for the privilege of paying it.

We are truly idiots for playing into this. Excuse my insult as I include myself in that group.

OP, you had many chances to get there with so little money. When Netflix raised their DVD monthly rental from $7 to $11, it was time to buy Netflix stock. When Apple came out with Iphone, you still had several years to buy the stock to get to $360k. When you were shopping on Amazon, you should have been buying the stock. All in all, ca $30k in any one of them, would have taken you there.
There are so many other companies that were clearly going to do well.
I started really late like in 2020 because of work and visa problems.Almost 20 years down the drain, and I still made it. My older one doesn't want me pay that much for college and wants to go to community college. Younger one is about to get $300k, but outside of 529 ofcourse. Younger DC has 10 years til college. We were never high earners. We had to make money work for us even if we knew nothing about it. Well, almost nothing. It's extremely good time to be in the market and/or enter the market now to forever. Not a financial advice.

First of all, not everyone is a savvy investor. And I'll go further than not many people know much about investing at all. So good for you? But you're expected a tremendous amount of financial know-all for most people. I grew up pretty poor and I can tell you I didn't have any sort of "investing" until I was nearly 30. Partly due to my debt (school) to income ratio and partly due to just not knowing.

Second, you imply that people should give up any sort of luxury, however small, to fund college. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Colleges are overpriced. Loans are predatory. And yet, despite what we say about "you can do well at any college" there aer many that will only hire from ivies, top tiers, etc. I saw that first hand in my own line of work. So people have valid reasons to want those schools.

Where did you work that would only hire from "ivies, top tiers, etc"? Because there really are not many areas that are like that. People do NOT have valid reasons to want those schools. There are literally only ~50-60K freshman matriculating at T25 schools each year. Yet millions of people are happy, succesful in their careers. Do the math, majority of them did not attend T25 schools.

At my aged agency- my incoming class I had 6 Ivy alum and me and two others with state university degrees. We all came in sane grade/step and all make the same 25 years later.

Do they still hire mostly from Ivies/T25 currently? Were those 6 Ivy alums hired because they had actual connections at your aged agency or just because they were Ivy Alums? Because it's very likely many Ivy alums have parent/family connections already and might have gotten that same job even if they went to State U

Ironically, you proved the point that you all make the same are at the same grade now, so really it doesn't matter where you went---quality workers come from any college.

That was my point!! They hire from everywhere. In my field, most have a graduate degree.

Except your example implied your odds were far greater to get the job from the start if you went to an Ivy League school.

No company pays their hires different salaries for the exact same job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These schools may not offer merit aid, but they all offer need based aid and many are need blind. What's the issue?

Because donut hole families in high cost areas are screwed!!

Their kid can get into Ivies, Hopkins, etc., but will have to be full pay at $85-90k because at $175k HHI they aren’t considered in need. $360k for each kids’ undergrad is not doable without major loans even with $150k in each 529. In fact, the asserts and 529 count against them too.

Someone making $175k will receive significant aid at an Ivy. Not sure why folks continue to spread this myth.

This. Our HHI was around 190k and our kid got substantial aid. We live very, very frugally and had saved most of the ~55k/year that was our contribution. The top schools give aid packages that don't include loans, so while we still live very simply, our child received a fantastic education with no debt.

you'll receive aid as long as you have "typical assets" which for most ivy league schools is about 200k outside retirement. we maybe 150k HHI and got zero aid from Princeton, one of the more generous schools.

Sorry you had too much wealth in assets?

Yeah, I guess. No home equity and my retirement accounts are just okay, but I had about 350k in my investment account. I should have bought a place and "hid" my money in a house, I guess. DC didn't take Princeton and the debt that came along w it.

I thought some schools took home value into account. We were told what we have in 529s abs our home equity (just not retirement savings) would be a mark against us for aid.

This depends on school. Georgetown takes home equity into account. Which is why they thought we could pay full price for two kids.

Yeah. And that is my kid's top choice. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is an athlete and it ended up being about $40K/year after scholarships.

If he is athlete, why did he pay? What sport? What Division?

Only money sports (mainly football and basketball…depends on the school) give full scholarships. Most sports provide full scholarship to only 10% of the team and partial scholarships to the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I understand what you are trying to say, but your example is that you need to be the superstar at Oklahoma just to get to the same place as the average Harvard kid. “

The optimistic point is that you make the most of what you’ve got, & that even if you end up at a place that doesn’t look great on a rear window decal, that doesn’t mean the game is over, you lose, & you’ll be working at the Gap forever.

The “duh” point is if you think these lower-ranked schools are so pathetic, then it should be easier for your little Einstein to stick out. Just don’t be surprised if the students at South Alabama aren’t quite as stupid as you think they will be.

+1

There are plenty of really smart kids at most schools, especially any school in the T200 or so. Majority of kids do not attend a T25 school. They attend a state school or a private a tier below where they can get excellent merit. And shockingly, most go on to excel at life (sarcasm note)

[Anonymous]

“however, their example basically said you have to be the absolute tops in the class just to get to the place as the average Harvard kid. “

That wasn’t the point at all. PP listed a bunch of ways to make lemonade out of lemons if you find yourself at a sub-optimal school. If you think being an ordinary Oklahoma grad doesn’t offer enough bounce to catapult you into a corner office, then rise above the pack via things LIKE honors, research, connections etc. Nobody said you have to do EVERYTHING on that list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These schools may not offer merit aid, but they all offer need based aid and many are need blind. What's the issue?

Because donut hole families in high cost areas are screwed!!

Their kid can get into Ivies, Hopkins, etc., but will have to be full pay at $85-90k because at $175k HHI they aren’t considered in need. $360k for each kids’ undergrad is not doable without major loans even with $150k in each 529. In fact, the asserts and 529 count against them too.

Someone making $175k will receive significant aid at an Ivy. Not sure why folks continue to spread this myth.

This. Our HHI was around 190k and our kid got substantial aid. We live very, very frugally and had saved most of the ~55k/year that was our contribution. The top schools give aid packages that don't include loans, so while we still live very simply, our child received a fantastic education with no debt.

you'll receive aid as long as you have "typical assets" which for most ivy league schools is about 200k outside retirement. we maybe 150k HHI and got zero aid from Princeton, one of the more generous schools.

Sorry you had too much wealth in assets?

Yeah, I guess. No home equity and my retirement accounts are just okay, but I had about 350k in my investment account. I should have bought a place and "hid" my money in a house, I guess. DC didn't take Princeton and the debt that came along w it.

I thought some schools took home value into account. We were told what we have in 529s abs our home equity (just not retirement savings) would be a mark against us for aid.

This depends on school. Georgetown takes home equity into account. Which is why they thought we could pay full price for two kids.

Yeah. And that is my kid's top choice. Ugh.

Same. And it was the only school I wouldn't let him apply to. Since he and I both knew this early, it was fine. But I feel for kids who tour and fall in love, apply and get in and then this is dropped on them.