lawyer for C IEP?
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Anonymous
| We have a C.I.E.P coming up in a few weeks and someone suggested we lawyer up. I'm not really sure I understand why that would be necessary. |
Anonymous
| What is a C.I.E.P.? |
Anonymous
| Because that's what people like to do in this town. And that is why there is such high turn over for people that work in special education. If you have an issue with your IEP team or with the service you are getting, then you can lawyer up. Some people like to hire an advocate (rather than a lawyer) because they feel it helps them to have someone who is looking out for their child's interests during the meeting. |
Anonymous
PP, do you work in special education? If so, I'm sorry you have this attitude. The IEP process is a legal one. It is a parent's right under IDEA law to invite whomever they want to an IEP meeting, including an advocate and/or an attorney as well as other family members, other professionals, therapists, doctors, etc. Many parents feel intimidated by an IEP team that often consists of at least half a dozen school staff members. Many parents (myself included) have had the experience at these meetings of being told that something they are asking for is "not available" or their child "doesn't qualify" or "can't be done" when in fact it is available, the child does qualify and the request can be done. Surprisingly, when we attend an IEP meeting that is audio-recorded and with our lawyer present, many things can be done that previously weren't options. I wish that IEP team members would understand this and not take the hiring of a lawyer so personally. The IEP is a legal process, it's a parent's right to bring a lawyer. Just like you probably wouldn't choose to represent yourself in court without a lawyer, many parents choose to be represented in the IEP with a lawyer who is familiar with the legal rights of the child and the legal obligations of the school system. When I want my toilet fixed, I hire a plumber. When I want to ensure my child is receiving the education to which he is legally entitled, I hire a lawyer. I would venture a different guess for why there is such high turnover in special education -- many of the special education teachers do not actually have any formal training in the issues of the kids that they have to teach. It's hard to teach an autistic child when you don't know what autism is. It's hard to teach a dyslexic child when you have never heard of dyslexia and your school system has provided no teacher training on reading/decoding and your system has no pre-packaged instructional curriculum to deal with these issues. As a result, special education teachers burn out because they are not able to get their kids to make meaningful progress (and then their parents get mad and hire lawyers….) |
Anonymous
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OP, I attended a free session last night by Brian Gruber, a special ed lawyer and hosted by MCCPTA. It was my first time attending a session like this, as we're at the very beginning of the process.
I was very impressed by his approach and did not think it was at all adversarial - in fact, it was the opposite. His info is below. There are some other threads on this too that are older you may want to search. The next MCCPTA Special Education Committee meeting will be held on Monday, Feb. 3, at 7 p.m. in the cafeteria at the Carver Educational Services Center (Board of Education offices). There will be a free presentation on IEPs by Brian K. Gruber, Esq. Mr. Gruber will be sharing his unique perspective and expertize with the group. ~ ~ ~ Brief Bio Brian K. Gruber heads up the Law Office of Brian K. Gruber, P.C., a Bethesda-based law firm whose entire practice is dedicated to school law. Mr. Gruber has been representing children with special needs and their parents since 1997. Mr. Gruber is well known in special education circles as a persuasive advocate who often is able to obtain the desired outcome for his clients without having to resort to adversarial, and costly litigation. Mr. Gruber has participated in well over 1000 IEP meetings, and more than 300 special education meditations and due process hearings in four states. Mr. Gruber , has argued special education cases before the 4 Circuit Court of Appeals, and the United States District Courts for Maryland and the District of Columbia. In 2003, Mr. Gruber was admitted to the bar of the United States Supreme Court. Mr. Gruber is a frequent speaker in professional and academic circles including the 2013 LDA conference. In February, 2014, Mr. Gruber will be one of the speakers on the opening day of the LDA conference in Anaheim, California. Mr. Gruber has conducted trainings for the Bar Association of the District of Columbia, Montgomery County, and the Maryland Public Defenders Service, and has been a guest lecturer in graduate level special education programs at the George Washington University. Mr. Gruber is a member of the American Bar Association, LDAMC, WISER, and COPAA. Mr. Gruber is married to a third-grade teacher and lives in Montgomery County, Maryland. Mr. Gruber’s children all attend public schools. |
Anonymous
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For what it's worth...I had my first IEP meeting yesterday. I found the people from MCPS to be very receptive to my concerns and ideas. In the end, both myself and the school staff/admin had identified the same goals and objectives for my child. I really left like all of us around the table were there in support of my child.
I left the meeting feeling glad that I had these people on my childs side. It remains to be seen how well the IEP will be implemented or what the actual outcome will be; but for now, I'm very pleased. |
Anonymous
County IEP meeting. I had to put the periods in because autocorrect changed it about ten times. |
Anonymous
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Our school has been really good and they have been following PGC protocol but it's become a very long and arduous process. We have all been on the same page, the IEP in place isn't working, and it's taken more than half of the school year now to get the CEIP. My child needs to be transferred out and put into an autism program but those programs aren't in College Park or Greenbelt, no, they're in Temple Hills and other rough neighborhoods. It's also difficult because he's brilliant. While he refused to complete any portion of his IQ test, what he did complete, resulted in a 118, and everyone is sure it's much higher than that but he gets bored and refuses to continue.
I've done well advocating for him and so has our school but I wondered if our friend was right and we should have an attorney. So far the responses in the thread really have me torn. |
Anonymous
| I am on a team that screens for IEPs. I have no problem with parents bringing advocates or lawyers or tape recording or whatever they want to do. I will say this, though. The team is acting in the best interests of the child. Truly. It might be worth giving the group a chance to review the data without lawyers present. The conversation will be open and free-flowing, maybe more than it would be if there is a perception that the parents think the group won't be making decisions for the good of the child. I have not found that there are different outcomes because, for instance, Brian Gruber or any lawyer was there. The partnership between parents and school can be really healthy and helpful. Just come prepared and understand your child's rights. And if you have reason to not trust, then by all means lawyer up if you want. Just one opinion here though... |
Anonymous
| I've been at this a while as a parent and I've also attended IEP meetings as a teacher. We have never hired a lawyer-yet. DH and I handled it and the team was good until one year it wasn't. We had many concerns and gave the school the chance to handle it and they didn't so we hired an advocate. (This was in Pennsylvania and last I heard he retired). It helped. If it hadn't then we would have gotten a lawyer. |
Anonymous
| 12:54 I respect that you, when you are on the team, act in the best interest of the child. Unfortunately you cannot say the same for the rest of the folks. Sometimes there is an "acting" principal who knows that MCPS won't be happy if she allows an IEP to go through. Or maybe it's a principal who is worried about her school's test scores and wants a low functioning kid transferred OUT to another program. or maybe the principal has already asked for extra staff for a child and been rebuffed, so he feels like he has to justify not providing supportive services. So thank you for acting in the best interest of the child, but remember, you don't know the motivations of the rest of your colleagues. You might be surprised. |
Anonymous
Agree. I have been doing IEP meetings for 9 years. Sometimes, there is someone on the team who is passionate, cares SO much about the child, and is truly working for the best interest of the child. I can think of several in our past. More often in my experience, the members of the team "know the drill", understand current budget limitations and what they are supposed to say "no" to, and go into the meetings as a matter of routine and looking to provide the least amount of services they possibly can, (knowing full well that the less the parents know, the better position they are in). I hate to be so pessimistic, but I've been around the block. OP--my suggestion, get at least an advocate, if you aren't familiar with the IEP drill as well as federal laws around FAPE. |
Anonymous
OP here. We had that problem with our last principal and I was talked into dropping our previous IEP to a 504 and it took years to be able to the IEP reinstated. I know that everyone at DC's school has been great and really working hard with him. The Spec Ed coordinator, DS's therapist and I will all be there as well as myself and DH. If DH can't go then a family friend, who knows my child well, will go with me. My mother is a retired social worker and has been to many IEP meetings. She seemed to agree with the thought that I hold off on an attorney for now and that I should get one if I don't feel we were not happy with the outcome or felt intimidated and forced into a decision. |
Anonymous
Sounds like you have a good plan! |
Anonymous
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Interesting thread, as we've been weighing whether we need an advocate as our DS transitions to middle school. On the one hand, our IEP discussions as a team really are pretty free-wheeling and there is a lot of good collaboration that's taken place. Whenever we've suggested accommodations, they've almost always been granted.
On the other hand...DS is still way behind in some areas and has met few goals, although he's made progress. The team is rarely proactive. I often have the feeling that there are various interventions/approaches that could be tried but that we don't know about and that they keep in reserve. I also worry that engaging an advocate will make things go much more "by the book" than they currently are. We have pretty free, honest communication with the team and DS's teachers. Part of me fears that hiring an advocate will put a stop to that and actually be detrimental. |