Stay at home mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

???

If DH asks me to not water the garden on Tuesday because he’s fertilizing the lawn. I just say OK and don’t water that day. I don’t keep track of his weird fertilize the lawn schedule, but I’m grateful that he has one and I cooperate with him on his plan. That’s being a partner too!

Okay. But he’s in charge of the lawn, and you are occasionally helping out. You aren’t doing half.

Are we expecting 50/50 in EVERYTHING? That certainly is a choice…[to make yourself miserable]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

DP. I think a lot of couples butt heads on this stuff because women tend to have higher standards for meals, kid enrichment, cleanliness of home, fostering community ties... all of it.

I cannot be the only woman in the whole world married to a man who has higher standards than I do on all of this AND expects me to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

???

If DH asks me to not water the garden on Tuesday because he’s fertilizing the lawn. I just say OK and don’t water that day. I don’t keep track of his weird fertilize the lawn schedule, but I’m grateful that he has one and I cooperate with him on his plan. That’s being a partner too!

Okay. But he’s in charge of the lawn, and you are occasionally helping out. You aren’t doing half.

Are we expecting 50/50 in EVERYTHING? That certainly is a choice…[to make yourself miserable]

The answer to all of this is to not have kids. Many young women are choosing this option. They understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

Organized people create actual written lists on paper or digitally...Your mental list is your OCD rumination about how oppressed and victimized you are as you are constantly keeping score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

Organized people create actual written lists on paper or digitally...Your mental list is your OCD rumination about how oppressed and victimized you are as you are constantly keeping score.

That’s fine. Paper works too.

The point is for both parties to own the entirety of their jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

???

If DH asks me to not water the garden on Tuesday because he’s fertilizing the lawn. I just say OK and don’t water that day.

I don’t keep track of his weird fertilize the lawn schedule, but I’m grateful that he has one and I cooperate with him on his plan. That’s being a partner too!

Gasp! Ur husband proactively decided to fertilize the lawn on a particular day, got the supplies and informed you of the prep!?

Holy moly, a keeper!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

My guess is your DH doesn’t earn a lot of money which is why he’s up for all of this.

Nope, try again.

+1

My husband earns a lot of money, as do I, so that's not why he's "up for all of this." It's because they are his kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

My guess is your DH doesn’t earn a lot of money which is why he’s up for all of this.

I'm not the PP and my husband only has a masters but he does earn a lot of money and is still a present and involved dad, as much as I am a present and involved mom. He wanted kids so now he actively parents them.

I'm the PP, my spouse's PhD is in engineering. He does very well. He's never pushed me to go partner track at a law firm, I've never pushed him to go to the crazy consulting firms or startups, so we both can be involved parents.

Too funny, I'm the PP and my husband's masters is in EE and I'm also a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

. You went to college, right? You work in a professional career, right? Did you ever learn about the economies of labor specialization? Did you ever actually sit down and analyze what family division of labor not just child care but everything else that needs to be done, optimizes your family's overall utility function? Of course not because Ms. Magazine told your Mom and maw maw that god dammit child care needs to be split exactly 50/50 right down the middle or it's misogyny and the patriarchy. It's both absurd and economically illiterate.

You type like a child but you want people to take you seriously? I did go to college, and I have two post-graduate degrees on top of that. We don't split everything 50/50, so you're making a strawman argument. We do take care of our children 50/50, though, and I don't give a shit about your optimization calculations - we're not a business, we're a family, and I don't want to be married to someone who isn't going to parent our kids as much as I do. You're a troll so this will be the last time I'm responding to you. You are all over these threads spewing nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Who identified the need for PT, handled the discussions with the school for the 504 or IEP, vetted options for a physical therapist and chose one to work with?

First of all, it's PT for an injury, so there is no 504 or IEP involved. Second of all, he called around and picked the physical therapist and chose the one to work with that he liked the most and that had the best availability and location. This injury is new to both of us (i.e. it's not something that either one of us has experienced before) but he has absolutely taken the lead on it. I did the first appointment with the ortho because he was out of town, he has done all the PT appointments, he has done the follow-up with the ortho, and he is taking her for the MRI next week. Sher has PT twice a week at the location and then has to do the work every day - he is the one who follows up with her on that and does it with her.

I don't understand why you are looking for ways to try to prove that my husband isn't an involved father but please tell me why. I have literally never taken my kids to an eye doctor appointment, he has done them all. One of our daughters just got contacts and he has handled the ordering of them, driving to school when one of them came out in the middle of the day to help her get it back in when the nurse couldn't help, scheduling the follow-ups, etc. He is the one who planned the dad and daughter weekend get away this summer (with his dad friends) - he used our joint calendar to plan it and then he scheduled boarding for our dogs (he will drop them off and pick them up) so that I can have a true vacation at home with no other living creatures in the house. He's the one who got new tennis shoes for all the kids when he noticed that one of the pairs was looking ratty. He's the one who handled all the school paperwork for end-of-the-year stuff. He's also the one who did all the school supply ordering at the end of last summer. He's the one who attended the parent-teacher conferences this year, not me (normally we both do it but this year I was pretty busy and he said not to worry, he would absolutely do them himself). Do you want me to keep going?

We both work from home, both of our jobs are flexible, we both make about the same (it has flip flopped over the years). One difference is that I tend to have more video calls whereas his are mostly over the phone, which means that my schedule can be slightly more demanding because it's more difficult for me to take a call away from my computer. We take turns getting up with the kids and dogs in the morning and have done that for years. If on his morning they have a field trip and need to have a lunch packed then he'll make sure the day before we have whatever each kid needs for their lunch. The men he is friends with are also very involved dads. We are all highly educated and had kids in our 30's so we intentionally and carefully chose our partners and had kids because we were all on board and wanted to do so. I don't really know what else to tell you. I'm not the only one posting on here that my husband does as much as I do, and there's no way we're all lying (and for what purpose?). So I suggest you make peace with the fact that there are great dads out there. And again, explain to us why you're so determined to argue against this idea.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I both work, he's doing more of the chores and childcare right now because I'm 8 months pregnant with our second and I've reached the uncomfortable and always tired stage. With our first I handled the vast majority of night wake ups because I chose to breastfeed.

I of course handled all the house stuff when his mom got sick and he was with her for her surgeries and chemo.

It's not a constant bean counting thing, you have to be a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

We both have it in mind, although certain things will be more at the forefront of one of our minds, hence why we discuss things. For example, he is more involved in one of their summer activities because it is something he did and is more interested in and I am more involved in the other activity because it's something I do. I handle annual checkups with the pediatrician because we have middle school girls and are therefore discussing puberty-related items now. He handles sick visits and the dentist. I couldn't tell you the last time our kids went to the dentist or the next time they are going because that's all on him and in his head. They are getting braces soon and he had to coordinate the dentist appointments to fit with the orthodontist appointments and I have no idea what is when because he's doing it. We discuss things and decide who is doing what and we know that everything is being taken care of by someone and some things don't require a committee so one person can handle them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

The operative question is whether both partners have the proverbial list/ticker tape going through their minds about what needs to be done, or whether only one partner maintains that ongoing mental list and tasks the other partner with handling certain items from it.

The very maintenance of the ongoing list and initiating whatever it is that is necessary to get things done is work that most men do not do.

It just seems so inefficient to have two people running two ticker tapes about all the same things at the same time. Having two different “lists” doesn’t make things inequitable. Surely a division of labor, clear ownership, and delegation of tasks on each list as required makes the most sense.

If your partner has to tell you what to do, then you are not really a partner.

It's not inefficient to have multiple people running ticker tapes about what needs to be done. The mental lists do not need to overlap and indeed should probably not overlap. But an adult in a partnership who is responsible for a family needs to have their own list of responsibilities, with ownership from conception.

???

If DH asks me to not water the garden on Tuesday because he’s fertilizing the lawn. I just say OK and don’t water that day.

I don’t keep track of his weird fertilize the lawn schedule, but I’m grateful that he has one and I cooperate with him on his plan. That’s being a partner too!

Gasp! Ur husband proactively decided to fertilize the lawn on a particular day, got the supplies and informed you of the prep!?

Holy moly, a keeper!

The bar is literally on the floor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Most men I know take kids to appointments. The problem is you have to manage the appointments. They won’t make annual appointments or think to take the kid to the dentist. They don’t submit forms to schools. You’re not mentioning the planning and invisible labor. Your spouse is doing the visible stuff like most men.

+1

The real work lies in the conception and planning. The execution of tasks is the least of it.

Well, sorry to break it to you but my husband does the conception and planning as well. It's not like I'm scheduling everything and then telling him what to do. He's not my employee, FFS, he's the parent of our kids.

Also, the execution of tasks shouldn't be discounted. I have no problem being the one who schedules something if he takes the kids and vice versa. It all takes time, so you sound like one of those women who is just determined to be unhappy. Why do you think the time you spent on the phone scheduling the dentist appointment isn't as valuable as the time spent taking the kid to the dentist?

[Anonymous]

50/50 or men doing an equal share is the new "women can have it all"

Ultimately, when the system breaks down, it's the woman's fault.