MIT releases post-affirmative action class of 2028 data

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

No, they're going to be respected because people will know they got in on their merits. Funny thing will happen, though. People will start asking what year you're in. They will need to know that in order to form the opinion (i.e. c/o 2028? Respect. c/o 2027? Doubt.) How do I know? I have experience at TJ where Class of 2024 and older gets respect. Anything younger, there's an undercurrent of being less than because the standards were lowered.

No, they're still going to assume they didn't get it on their merits. It's not like you can't just talk about your race in your essay or do the litany of diversity programs for high school students. People are not going to respect these black students.

A lot will depend on the credentials gap between URM and non-URM groups.

Honestly this reduction in URM looks like there is probably not much of a gap left, remember not only did the 5% have much higher average test scores, the 7% increase in asians has a slightly diluted average test scores. The hispanic reduction seems smaller than what I would have expected without racial preferences.

You need to remember that the 2027 cohort was out of 40/110 with a lot of mixed race options, so the number of asians alone is probably more like low 30's % (if it was in line with mixed vs asian alone in the USA).

The 2028 cohort is 47/100. The actual increase in asians is probably closer to 30% than 20%. It's an even bigger dilution of what would otherwise be inflated test scores due to MIT selecting for it.

Anyways yeah, this is pretty vindicating proof to all the asians following this that affirmative action was code for asian quotas. It was wrong when it was applied to jews and it's wrong when applied to asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

The only people who ever think about things like this are racists. I guess that makes you one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

Such a load of crap. Even the weakest admits to MIT have always been top notch students. You can insist that someone who missed 8 questions on the SAT is innately less qualified than someone who only missed 3 questions. Enjoy yourself and your game of Sudoku/Solitaire/Wordle or whatever it is you do to pass time alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the URM students accepted by MIT this year still going to be treated like they don't deserve to be there?

Sentiment won't change overnight.
They need to earn it over time..
Revisit in 10 years.

Why the F would they have to "earn" it??? The whole premise of this discussion is that no affirmative action has been applied.

Because 50 years of affirmative action has taught the institution that URM students are less qualified.
It will take a while for the institution to unlearn that

Accepted across the board this year with the same AP classes, the same AP scores, the same ACT or SAT scores, the same ECs... and still less qualified?

Please point out how and/or where?

They're not less qualified at all but institutions have memories.
After 50 years of admitting underqualified students based on skin color, there is institutional assumption that many of the URM are underqualified.
This was probably less true at MIT than other places because of the nature of the education there.
But these attitudes will not change overnight, it took 50 years of unearned preferences to develop these attitudes and it will probably take at least 4-10 years for these attitudes to adjust to the new reality.

The only people who ever think about things like this are racists. I guess that makes you one!

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So no gain in white seats. All the seats previously occupied by URM went to Asians.

This follows what we are seeing on tours. We toured a dozen top20 schools this summer and the tour groups were 75-95% Asian and South Asian.

My kid (mixed race Asian) was completely turned off and we're left wondering what to do. She wants diversity in college.

Just a quick observation from outside the US, grouping all Asians together as a block is nuts.

60 percent of the world’s population lives in Asia including several of the world’s most and least advanced economies… and everything in between.

I totally agree. At the very least, have a separate statistic for Indian/Pakistani. It's confusing when people say Asian when they mean Indian because they Indians and East/Southeast Asians just don't seem the same at all, other than the fact that there are many smart people in both groups. On the other hand, if I hear of someone who's Japanese and someone who's Thai, they're still very different, but I can understand why they'd be grouped together. I think most people understand what I'm saying on a gut level. I mean countries like Turkey, Armenia, Afghanistan and Cyprus are in Asia, but we don't expect them to check the Asian box, do we?

The term Asian originated during the Civil Rights movement - instead of: Japanese American, Chinese American, etc. The term Asian American we created to unify these groups, on hind-sight this was a bad name. Anyone got a better name?

DP I don't think it's a bad idea for a name, per se. It's just troubling to lump everyone together who checks this ethnic box for the purposes of hiring or college admissions. It should be just as troubling as having an official "Jewish" category for hiring or admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

[Anonymous]

This is getting so unattractive. Even less Blacks and Hispanics will want to join the club.

[Anonymous]

Same with fisher school of engineering. Look at the class pictures. Barely any diversity - just not attractive anylonger to people who value it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

I guess they would argue there are plenty Asian questbridge kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

Mostly because it’s not offered at the high schools they attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be interesting seeing how things develop if black students fall by two thirds across the board at elite schools, which now seems possible to likely, and as DEI internships dry up at white shoe firms in banking, consulting, law.

This is obviously a boon for HBCUs.

What does black politics look like under those circumstances? Will we see the end of Obama type respectability politicians, with more radical figures stepping in? A new dawn for Afropessimism? What happens if black people have no stake in elite institutions?

They need to step up and force their reps to push for education funding at the lower levels as well as encourage their community to work harder/smarter. I think the first fight for Blacks is colleges mis-representing the "Black" number to include African Americans (kids born to recent African immigrants). Fix that first. Work at least as hard as them and see your numbers go up.

Roland fryer has figured out how to get black kids in harlem to academically outperform the white kids on the upper east side.
It's going to sound like common sense but he has a study that proves that studying more and placing greater value on education leads to better academic results.

I mean, that's a no duh moment, which is why the no HW and dumbing down of education isn't going to really help those kids.

This has been a universal change in education. Rich students just have educated enough parents that it doesn’t affect them that their private schools have dumbed down quite a bit. Students, sure, are taking more advanced coursework, but their classes are ridiculously easier than the past. You can’t provide true rigor these days without a line of parents complaining, and in public districts, the admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the article:

For the incoming class of 2028, about 16 percent of students are Black, Hispanic, Native American and Pacific Islander, compared to a baseline of about 25 percent of undergraduate students in recent years, the announcement said.

The comparison to the class of 2027 was even more dramatic. The percentage of Black students enrolled dropped to 5 percent from 15 percent, and the percentage of Hispanic and Latino students dropped to 11 percent from 16 percent. White students made up 37 percent of the new class, compared to 38 percent last year.

The percentage of Asian American students in the class rose to 47 percent from 40 percent.

This is pretty terrible. It seems that black and hispanic students aren't taking higher level math classes in high school. Certainly compared to white and asian students. 5 percent for blacks is very low. But the more notable number is the decline in latino students. Elite colleges are not looking like America going forward. Why aren't blacks and hispanics taking Calculus BC?

How many black and Hispanic students go to top/well-funded high schools to take these courses? The bulk of minorities at these institutions are rich or educationally-privileged, because you need to be. No inner city child really makes it to the gates, even before the end of AA

I guess they would argue there are plenty Asian questbridge kids.

There are plenty of Asian, black, and Hispanic Questbridge kids, and most went to very good schools
-A questbridge product of an Amazing southern magnet school, whose friends went to Stuyvesant, exeter, Lakeside, Bronx Science, Etc. Matching is mostly a game for students who are going to get in anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is not fair to remove programs at MIT that help disadvantaged URMs. Affirmative action for women at MIT has a much bigger effect than affirmative action for URMs ever did. Nobody criticizes that because it benefits wealthy people.

I really hope they stay committed to it. People here don't care about diversity since they are majority white and wealthy, but I think scientific excellence in the black and hispanic community is important to not just the black/hispanic community in terms of representation but can have a tangible benefit to those communities.

Yeah but when you just pretend the excellence exists it doesn't help much at all.

Black and Hispanic excellence does exist. It’s just not to the inflated levels that top colleges are trying to push.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is not fair to remove programs at MIT that help disadvantaged URMs. Affirmative action for women at MIT has a much bigger effect than affirmative action for URMs ever did. Nobody criticizes that because it benefits wealthy people.

How does affirmative action at MIT help women?
Have you ever been to MIT. The women are all asian and they are no wealthier than the average MIT satudent. The only group where the man don't outnumber the women... by a LOT... is the asians. Those asian women tend to be as smart as anyone else there.

They were still much less likely to get in for many many years before mit made it easier for women to get in. Women representation is also pretty important for sciences.

Colleges are graduating more women with 4 year degrees than men with 4 year degrees.
Law schools are graduating more female lawyers than male lawyers.
Medical schools are graduating more female doctors than male doctors.
Are you sure women need artificial preferences?

In Physics, CS, and Engineering, women do jarringly poorly compared to men and are not even close to the majority of graduates. They need the push lol