Waiver for HB Woodlawn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The blissfully unintentional irony of advocating for the destruction of all option programs because lotteries are so, so inequitable while at the same time arguing that families in Rosslyn (where the median income is $69K/year) should accept a school with no fields, pool, or sports as its neighborhood school. *chef's kiss*

+1 incredible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that this thread and threads about ATS all end up being a waste of virtual breath. People act like there are high minded arguments against choice schools, but it seems that the bottom line is that many people are just mad their kids didn’t get something that other kids did. Their objections to the schools “on principle” didn’t keep them from applying. They just didn’t win. Therefore, no amount of discussion or logic will change their minds.

FWIW, I’m agnostic on the question of choice schools. This is just an observation after seeing many of these threads over the years.

Agree. My kids didn’t get into ATS and I really do think it’s the right environment for them. I am mad that given its popularity it’s only for a select, lucky few. If my neighborhood school wasn’t so awful I would be okay with it.

[Anonymous]

"most people" wut? lol. Show me where in this thread any two people have called for making HB an opt-out lottery or mentioned "pamphlets" because I believe this amazing thread momentum is in your head.

I think PP is looking at HB all wrong. Here's an alternative take: Somehow APS has basically tricked all of these "rich white families" to send their privileged Larlas in hubzone buses to a school that has fewer resources than their zoned schools (doesn't cost taxpayers more, has one field, no pool, no real sports, fewer class offerings, fewer teachers, no counselors, and does not help them get into a good college comparatively). APS has basically pulled off a miracle of the loaves and fishes. They had a building they couldn't force kids to attend school in, so they made it attractive to some families without spending extra money per child. Of course PP is still mad, but it's an example of APS doing what it could with what it was given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The blissfully unintentional irony of advocating for the destruction of all option programs because lotteries are so, so inequitable while at the same time arguing that families in Rosslyn (where the median income is $69K/year) should accept a school with no fields, pool, or sports as its neighborhood school. *chef's kiss*

Most people are saying they should expand representation in the program, making it HS only and larger, and making it an opt-out lottery — every 8th grader is entered, winners get a slot, and a chance to tour the school and learn about the program rather than some pamphlet.

The "wut?" comment was in response to this comment, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that this thread and threads about ATS all end up being a waste of virtual breath. People act like there are high minded arguments against choice schools, but it seems that the bottom line is that many people are just mad their kids didn’t get something that other kids did. Their objections to the schools “on principle” didn’t keep them from applying. They just didn’t win. Therefore, no amount of discussion or logic will change their minds.

FWIW, I’m agnostic on the question of choice schools. This is just an observation after seeing many of these threads over the years.

Agree. My kids didn’t get into ATS and I really do think it’s the right environment for them. I am mad that given its popularity it’s only for a select, lucky few. If my neighborhood school wasn’t so awful I would be okay with it.

We were sad about not getting into ATS after taking the tour many years ago, but in retrospect it would not have been a good fit fwiw. All of the intense work in kindergarten would have been too much for our kids (who are now great readers anyway). We kept our place in the lottery and were ultimately offered a spot in 2nd grade, but by then we realized we should not take it. In case that helps, though I'm sorry re your experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that this thread and threads about ATS all end up being a waste of virtual breath. People act like there are high minded arguments against choice schools, but it seems that the bottom line is that many people are just mad their kids didn’t get something that other kids did. Their objections to the schools “on principle” didn’t keep them from applying. They just didn’t win. Therefore, no amount of discussion or logic will change their minds.

FWIW, I’m agnostic on the question of choice schools. This is just an observation after seeing many of these threads over the years.

I have decades of experience in Arlington. I did not let my children “apply” to HB because I did not think it would be good for them. I am anti HB and anti choice schools. We exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The blissfully unintentional irony of advocating for the destruction of all option programs because lotteries are so, so inequitable while at the same time arguing that families in Rosslyn (where the median income is $69K/year) should accept a school with no fields, pool, or sports as its neighborhood school. *chef's kiss*

Most people are saying they should expand representation in the program, making it HS only and larger, and making it an opt-out lottery — every 8th grader is entered, winners get a slot, and a chance to tour the school and learn about the program rather than some pamphlet.

I really like this plan. It would give a lot more kids a chance to have the HB experience--instead of 1 kid getting a spot for 7 years (for 6-12 grades), ~2 kids could each get to attend HS for 4 years each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"most people" wut? lol. Show me where in this thread any two people have called for making HB an opt-out lottery or mentioned "pamphlets" because I believe this amazing thread momentum is in your head.

I think PP is looking at HB all wrong. Here's an alternative take: Somehow APS has basically tricked all of these "rich white families" to send their privileged Larlas in hubzone buses to a school that has fewer resources than their zoned schools (doesn't cost taxpayers more, has one field, no pool, no real sports, fewer class offerings, fewer teachers, no counselors, and does not help them get into a good college comparatively). APS has basically pulled off a miracle of the loaves and fishes. They had a building they couldn't force kids to attend school in, so they made it attractive to some families without spending extra money per child. Of course PP is still mad, but it's an example of APS doing what it could with what it was given.

Whatever. They have way better college placement comparatively, have fewer drug overdoses and violence, and are not overcrowded.

I’ll take that over a pool any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The blissfully unintentional irony of advocating for the destruction of all option programs because lotteries are so, so inequitable while at the same time arguing that families in Rosslyn (where the median income is $69K/year) should accept a school with no fields, pool, or sports as its neighborhood school. *chef's kiss*

Most people are saying they should expand representation in the program, making it HS only and larger, and making it an opt-out lottery — every 8th grader is entered, winners get a slot, and a chance to tour the school and learn about the program rather than some pamphlet.

I really like this plan. It would give a lot more kids a chance to have the HB experience--instead of 1 kid getting a spot for 7 years (for 6-12 grades), ~2 kids could each get to attend HS for 4 years each.

APS doesn’t want to make the school representative of APS demographics, if it did it would not be as high performing, and with zero high performing schools many wealthy families will just leave. Its secret sauce is that it has engaged parents and tends to be richer families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a comprehensive or neighborhood school because it doesn’t have the fields or space needed. It can only function as a choice school. Kids can’t be forced to go there but they can choose to go there. I guess it could aKai be used aa office space for staff? The symbiotic relationship between this space and the choice school has been explained several times now but clearly some people don’t get it.

You are on to something. Make hb the totally walkable school for Roslyn. That should make it diverse and full of apartment dwellers so maybe even lower income. Oh but wait, upthread somebody said something about not on their dime so I guess only the richest in Arlington should get into hb? So confused.

Also, the amount of diainfo on this thread is astounding.

I agree that there are so many argumentative fallacies, but it's from the HB proponents. It's disinformation if someone disagrees with you, eh?

I'm the OP who is tired of paying for option schools becoming a way for privileged parents to get a better, even safer education for their children at the expense of others who could use the same. If you took all the VPI programs from the elementary schools and the English learner programs out of ArlTech and HB, I'm sure that you would truly have your white paradise with even "higher educational outcomes."

I also am the person who is cool with all option programs going away. HB-W has just over 700 children. With enrollment going down over the next several years, I'm sure they can be absorbed into the system, especially at the MS level. The last time I checked, APS will severely underfunded over the next several years. Sell the building to the county and get that big Rosslyn money for our schools. The career center site can be our 4th high school. The other option schools can relieve overcrowding, or be used as swing space for renovation.

If you want a HB type program, I'm sure you can use lessons learned in the neighborhood schools.

It sounds like you are saying that since everyone can't go to HB, no one should be able to go? So everything should be exactly uniform across all schools with no special programs or options for different environments or learning styles?

That just doesn't make sense. Many, many school districts in our area and across the country have special schools of some sort, whether magnet programs, tech focus, performing arts, etc. Yes, it means students must apply (through lottery, testing, auditions, etc) and not everyone who tries gets in, but overall these programs are beneficial and make the school system stronger and more desirable.

I'm saying that if you can't bring more equity into HB, then yes, it can't be a haven for rich white [but quirky] students either. Quirky doesn't apply for the marginalized. It's dangerous to be different if you're a poor child of color and multi marginalized.

I also know that whatever I said above in a pipe dream because too many rich white families benefit from HB-W and will fight for their kid's opportunities. I mean, look at this thread and others. So let's not pretend that you give one fcuk to those who aren't in your sphere.

I'm the pp and I'm not rich or white, but okay.... Your faux concern for my minority children is touching.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting eliminating HB entirely so that the poor children of color can continue in their status quo of dangerous multi-marginalization? Or are you suggesting HB become exclusively a haven for poor minority children? Either way, you sound angry and irrational.

I'm a minority too, so please sit down. I'm SAYING not even suggesting that HB will continue to exist as a haven for mostly white and/or privileged people. I vote to get rid of it, but I know I'm outnumbered. So it continues without any equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The blissfully unintentional irony of advocating for the destruction of all option programs because lotteries are so, so inequitable while at the same time arguing that families in Rosslyn (where the median income is $69K/year) should accept a school with no fields, pool, or sports as its neighborhood school. *chef's kiss*

Most people are saying they should expand representation in the program, making it HS only and larger, and making it an opt-out lottery — every 8th grader is entered, winners get a slot, and a chance to tour the school and learn about the program rather than some pamphlet.

I really like this plan. It would give a lot more kids a chance to have the HB experience--instead of 1 kid getting a spot for 7 years (for 6-12 grades), ~2 kids could each get to attend HS for 4 years each.

APS doesn’t want to make the school representative of APS demographics, if it did it would not be as high performing, and with zero high performing schools many wealthy families will just leave. Its secret sauce is that it has engaged parents and tends to be richer families.

APS tried in the 90s but there were lawsuits against increasing diversity specifically at HB. So APS relented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a comprehensive or neighborhood school because it doesn’t have the fields or space needed. It can only function as a choice school. Kids can’t be forced to go there but they can choose to go there. I guess it could aKai be used aa office space for staff? The symbiotic relationship between this space and the choice school has been explained several times now but clearly some people don’t get it.

You are on to something. Make hb the totally walkable school for Roslyn. That should make it diverse and full of apartment dwellers so maybe even lower income. Oh but wait, upthread somebody said something about not on their dime so I guess only the richest in Arlington should get into hb? So confused.

Also, the amount of diainfo on this thread is astounding.

I agree that there are so many argumentative fallacies, but it's from the HB proponents. It's disinformation if someone disagrees with you, eh?

I'm the OP who is tired of paying for option schools becoming a way for privileged parents to get a better, even safer education for their children at the expense of others who could use the same. If you took all the VPI programs from the elementary schools and the English learner programs out of ArlTech and HB, I'm sure that you would truly have your white paradise with even "higher educational outcomes."

I also am the person who is cool with all option programs going away. HB-W has just over 700 children. With enrollment going down over the next several years, I'm sure they can be absorbed into the system, especially at the MS level. The last time I checked, APS will severely underfunded over the next several years. Sell the building to the county and get that big Rosslyn money for our schools. The career center site can be our 4th high school. The other option schools can relieve overcrowding, or be used as swing space for renovation.

If you want a HB type program, I'm sure you can use lessons learned in the neighborhood schools.

It sounds like you are saying that since everyone can't go to HB, no one should be able to go? So everything should be exactly uniform across all schools with no special programs or options for different environments or learning styles?

That just doesn't make sense. Many, many school districts in our area and across the country have special schools of some sort, whether magnet programs, tech focus, performing arts, etc. Yes, it means students must apply (through lottery, testing, auditions, etc) and not everyone who tries gets in, but overall these programs are beneficial and make the school system stronger and more desirable.

I'm saying that if you can't bring more equity into HB, then yes, it can't be a haven for rich white [but quirky] students either. Quirky doesn't apply for the marginalized. It's dangerous to be different if you're a poor child of color and multi marginalized.

I also know that whatever I said above in a pipe dream because too many rich white families benefit from HB-W and will fight for their kid's opportunities. I mean, look at this thread and others. So let's not pretend that you give one fcuk to those who aren't in your sphere.

I'm the pp and I'm not rich or white, but okay.... Your faux concern for my minority children is touching.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting eliminating HB entirely so that the poor children of color can continue in their status quo of dangerous multi-marginalization? Or are you suggesting HB become exclusively a haven for poor minority children? Either way, you sound angry and irrational.

I'm a minority too, so please sit down. I'm SAYING not even suggesting that HB will continue to exist as a haven for mostly white and/or privileged people. I vote to get rid of it, but I know I'm outnumbered. So it continues without any equity.

There’s nothing more equitable than a lottery system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a comprehensive or neighborhood school because it doesn’t have the fields or space needed. It can only function as a choice school. Kids can’t be forced to go there but they can choose to go there. I guess it could aKai be used aa office space for staff? The symbiotic relationship between this space and the choice school has been explained several times now but clearly some people don’t get it.

You are on to something. Make hb the totally walkable school for Roslyn. That should make it diverse and full of apartment dwellers so maybe even lower income. Oh but wait, upthread somebody said something about not on their dime so I guess only the richest in Arlington should get into hb? So confused.

Also, the amount of diainfo on this thread is astounding.

I agree that there are so many argumentative fallacies, but it's from the HB proponents. It's disinformation if someone disagrees with you, eh?

I'm the OP who is tired of paying for option schools becoming a way for privileged parents to get a better, even safer education for their children at the expense of others who could use the same. If you took all the VPI programs from the elementary schools and the English learner programs out of ArlTech and HB, I'm sure that you would truly have your white paradise with even "higher educational outcomes."

I also am the person who is cool with all option programs going away. HB-W has just over 700 children. With enrollment going down over the next several years, I'm sure they can be absorbed into the system, especially at the MS level. The last time I checked, APS will severely underfunded over the next several years. Sell the building to the county and get that big Rosslyn money for our schools. The career center site can be our 4th high school. The other option schools can relieve overcrowding, or be used as swing space for renovation.

If you want a HB type program, I'm sure you can use lessons learned in the neighborhood schools.

It sounds like you are saying that since everyone can't go to HB, no one should be able to go? So everything should be exactly uniform across all schools with no special programs or options for different environments or learning styles?

That just doesn't make sense. Many, many school districts in our area and across the country have special schools of some sort, whether magnet programs, tech focus, performing arts, etc. Yes, it means students must apply (through lottery, testing, auditions, etc) and not everyone who tries gets in, but overall these programs are beneficial and make the school system stronger and more desirable.

I'm saying that if you can't bring more equity into HB, then yes, it can't be a haven for rich white [but quirky] students either. Quirky doesn't apply for the marginalized. It's dangerous to be different if you're a poor child of color and multi marginalized.

I also know that whatever I said above in a pipe dream because too many rich white families benefit from HB-W and will fight for their kid's opportunities. I mean, look at this thread and others. So let's not pretend that you give one fcuk to those who aren't in your sphere.

I'm the pp and I'm not rich or white, but okay.... Your faux concern for my minority children is touching.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting eliminating HB entirely so that the poor children of color can continue in their status quo of dangerous multi-marginalization? Or are you suggesting HB become exclusively a haven for poor minority children? Either way, you sound angry and irrational.

I'm a minority too, so please sit down. I'm SAYING not even suggesting that HB will continue to exist as a haven for mostly white and/or privileged people. I vote to get rid of it, but I know I'm outnumbered. So it continues without any equity.

There’s nothing more equitable than a lottery system.

It would be more equitable if more kids had a chance to attend by switching to being HS only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a comprehensive or neighborhood school because it doesn’t have the fields or space needed. It can only function as a choice school. Kids can’t be forced to go there but they can choose to go there. I guess it could aKai be used aa office space for staff? The symbiotic relationship between this space and the choice school has been explained several times now but clearly some people don’t get it.

You are on to something. Make hb the totally walkable school for Roslyn. That should make it diverse and full of apartment dwellers so maybe even lower income. Oh but wait, upthread somebody said something about not on their dime so I guess only the richest in Arlington should get into hb? So confused.

Also, the amount of diainfo on this thread is astounding.

I agree that there are so many argumentative fallacies, but it's from the HB proponents. It's disinformation if someone disagrees with you, eh?

I'm the OP who is tired of paying for option schools becoming a way for privileged parents to get a better, even safer education for their children at the expense of others who could use the same. If you took all the VPI programs from the elementary schools and the English learner programs out of ArlTech and HB, I'm sure that you would truly have your white paradise with even "higher educational outcomes."

I also am the person who is cool with all option programs going away. HB-W has just over 700 children. With enrollment going down over the next several years, I'm sure they can be absorbed into the system, especially at the MS level. The last time I checked, APS will severely underfunded over the next several years. Sell the building to the county and get that big Rosslyn money for our schools. The career center site can be our 4th high school. The other option schools can relieve overcrowding, or be used as swing space for renovation.

If you want a HB type program, I'm sure you can use lessons learned in the neighborhood schools.

It sounds like you are saying that since everyone can't go to HB, no one should be able to go? So everything should be exactly uniform across all schools with no special programs or options for different environments or learning styles?

That just doesn't make sense. Many, many school districts in our area and across the country have special schools of some sort, whether magnet programs, tech focus, performing arts, etc. Yes, it means students must apply (through lottery, testing, auditions, etc) and not everyone who tries gets in, but overall these programs are beneficial and make the school system stronger and more desirable.

I'm saying that if you can't bring more equity into HB, then yes, it can't be a haven for rich white [but quirky] students either. Quirky doesn't apply for the marginalized. It's dangerous to be different if you're a poor child of color and multi marginalized.

I also know that whatever I said above in a pipe dream because too many rich white families benefit from HB-W and will fight for their kid's opportunities. I mean, look at this thread and others. So let's not pretend that you give one fcuk to those who aren't in your sphere.

I'm the pp and I'm not rich or white, but okay.... Your faux concern for my minority children is touching.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting eliminating HB entirely so that the poor children of color can continue in their status quo of dangerous multi-marginalization? Or are you suggesting HB become exclusively a haven for poor minority children? Either way, you sound angry and irrational.

I'm a minority too, so please sit down. I'm SAYING not even suggesting that HB will continue to exist as a haven for mostly white and/or privileged people. I vote to get rid of it, but I know I'm outnumbered. So it continues without any equity.

There’s nothing more equitable than a lottery system.

Yes, a lottery where all students participate. The process of registering for the lottery is an impediment, probably by design to filter for engaged parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB can’t be a comprehensive or neighborhood school because it doesn’t have the fields or space needed. It can only function as a choice school. Kids can’t be forced to go there but they can choose to go there. I guess it could aKai be used aa office space for staff? The symbiotic relationship between this space and the choice school has been explained several times now but clearly some people don’t get it.

You are on to something. Make hb the totally walkable school for Roslyn. That should make it diverse and full of apartment dwellers so maybe even lower income. Oh but wait, upthread somebody said something about not on their dime so I guess only the richest in Arlington should get into hb? So confused.

Also, the amount of diainfo on this thread is astounding.

I agree that there are so many argumentative fallacies, but it's from the HB proponents. It's disinformation if someone disagrees with you, eh?

I'm the OP who is tired of paying for option schools becoming a way for privileged parents to get a better, even safer education for their children at the expense of others who could use the same. If you took all the VPI programs from the elementary schools and the English learner programs out of ArlTech and HB, I'm sure that you would truly have your white paradise with even "higher educational outcomes."

I also am the person who is cool with all option programs going away. HB-W has just over 700 children. With enrollment going down over the next several years, I'm sure they can be absorbed into the system, especially at the MS level. The last time I checked, APS will severely underfunded over the next several years. Sell the building to the county and get that big Rosslyn money for our schools. The career center site can be our 4th high school. The other option schools can relieve overcrowding, or be used as swing space for renovation.

If you want a HB type program, I'm sure you can use lessons learned in the neighborhood schools.

It sounds like you are saying that since everyone can't go to HB, no one should be able to go? So everything should be exactly uniform across all schools with no special programs or options for different environments or learning styles?

That just doesn't make sense. Many, many school districts in our area and across the country have special schools of some sort, whether magnet programs, tech focus, performing arts, etc. Yes, it means students must apply (through lottery, testing, auditions, etc) and not everyone who tries gets in, but overall these programs are beneficial and make the school system stronger and more desirable.

I'm saying that if you can't bring more equity into HB, then yes, it can't be a haven for rich white [but quirky] students either. Quirky doesn't apply for the marginalized. It's dangerous to be different if you're a poor child of color and multi marginalized.

I also know that whatever I said above in a pipe dream because too many rich white families benefit from HB-W and will fight for their kid's opportunities. I mean, look at this thread and others. So let's not pretend that you give one fcuk to those who aren't in your sphere.

I'm the pp and I'm not rich or white, but okay.... Your faux concern for my minority children is touching.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting eliminating HB entirely so that the poor children of color can continue in their status quo of dangerous multi-marginalization? Or are you suggesting HB become exclusively a haven for poor minority children? Either way, you sound angry and irrational.

I'm a minority too, so please sit down. I'm SAYING not even suggesting that HB will continue to exist as a haven for mostly white and/or privileged people. I vote to get rid of it, but I know I'm outnumbered. So it continues without any equity.

There’s nothing more equitable than a lottery system.

Yes, a lottery where all students participate. The process of registering for the lottery is an impediment, probably by design to filter for engaged parents.

It’s maybe 3 clicks