UK, Italy, France quality decline, now poorer than all 50 states
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Anonymous
But they would STILL rather have the smaller city apartment (even if it’s the largest apartment they can find/afford) than your massive McMansion in the ‘burbs. How are you not getting this? |
Anonymous
If we are talking about London, it's a peculiar case. Central London is dominated by three demographics: 1) global rich, 2) students, and 3) immigrants in social housing. Central London is really a rich man's playground. The middle and UMC now commute in from outer zones and the home counties. And London is a massive employment machine with the highest salaries, people live there and put up with long commutes because they have to. The concentration of jobs and salaries in London is massively disproportionate for the country. A lot of people still move out for space and schools. Just like what they do in the US. I knew several families where dad worked in London and lived in a small flat three days a week and family was out in the country. |
Anonymous
+1 PP is someone who wasn't taught propertly in kindergarten that people have different preferences. Not everyone wants a 6000 square foot McMansion. Many of us spend our time OUTSIDE our homes, and don't want to deal with the hassle of maintenance. |
Anonymous
This is about right. I was a college student in London. Faculty mainly lived in Kent and commutes by train, because of good schools in Kent. Exceptions were primarily if a professor were married to a banker, then they seemed to live on the west side of greater London. There have been efforts to move some government agencies/offices outside London (Forestry was moved to Scotland) and the BBC has been pressured to move several bits to Greater Manchester (greatly resisted by the impacted staff). Still, a huge swath of jobs are in London. Even more if one counts the jobs concentrated in the Thames Valley (along GWR mainline from Paddington out towards Gloucester). London jobs are as if we had a combination of central government jobs (think DC) and Wall St jobs (think southern Manhatten) all in one place. |
Anonymous
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UK NHS is great for routine MD visits and for A&E. However, it has long queues (over a year is not so unusual) for a good sized list of medical procedures.
I likely would be dead if my heart issue had arisen while under NHS care -- and UK colleagues all agree -- because of a long queue (12+ months at that time) to get the needed heart procedure. By contrast, in the US I was able to get the needed heart MRI and other needed tests completed in a few weeks, then get the needed heart procedure completed within 2 months of the original incident. Waiting 12+ months for that procedure, my likely outcome was death. What some UK colleagues do to work around the long queues when needed is to go private (outside NHS) -- curiously often with identical hospitals and providers. They have to pay through the nose when they do this. Medical debt is an issue there as well as here being one result. |
Anonymous
I have a bunch of friends in London who live a 5 minute walk from a tube stop in Brixton, Balham, East London, etc. Their commutes are very manageable. Some are civil servants so not high earners. A key differentiator is, like in so many places in different countries, many of them bought their properties more than 15 years ago when they were much more affordable. It’s the same here in Bethesda. |
Anonymous
NHS can be great but often not for non-urgent or non-critical care. I think it’s good to have those who can afford it taking out private insurance or paying privately. It relieves some of the pressure on the public system. That is kind of the Australian model. I had both of my children under the NHS. It was great and I didn’t pay a cent. When my daughter was diagnosed with a kidney issue, she was immediately referred to a specialist at Evelina Hospital, probably the best pediatric hospital in the UK. When my son developed an egg allergy, he was immediately referred to Dr Adam Fox, one of the best pediatric allergists. This was about 15 years ago. But if you need a knee replacement, I imagine you could be waiting for years. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
| For most people in Europe, college is much more affordable. Getting a degree does not saddle the average student with mind-boggling debt in their twenties. They may earn less, but they have less going out. |
Anonymous
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Poverty is different in different countries. My relatives are considered poor back at home, but hard to tell. They work, have cheap housing, car, daycare, healthcare, and even travel. Housing is not their biggest expense like it is here. Cheap housing, healthcare, and good education fix so many problems.
They also don't have poverty mindset or anxiety about becoming homeless or not being able to afford doctor. They are broke often, but not poor. They could come out of it somewhat, but they choose to shop instead. We don't have the poor live together and piling on each other like they do here. It's fine to live together to support one another, but they take from one another instead. I'd know, because I lived with them here for about a year. The screaming and yelling that happen because they have low emotional control is painful. The poor here come with poor education, which makes it harder to come out of poverty. |
Anonymous
Not this poster but I believe that everyone who works should be able to afford the basic necessities of life.i am also wealthy enough to have 3 separate properties on 3 different continents. However, I am a religious person and I believe that there is enough to go around at this point in human civilization and that the purpose of ones life is to honor/worship the creator, not accumulate clutter/wealth. I dont believe that only people with certain occupations should have enough to eat, a stable roof over there heads, access to education and healthcare. If you are working 40 hours a week (8 to sleep, 8 to worship, fellowship, exercise, community build and spend with family/take out the garbage/cook/do laundry and 8 to earn a living) then you should be able to afford a basic standard of living and that is what the european system provides. having lived in europe- I disagree that the UMC american enjoys much better QoL but then, the QoL of the UMC in developing/emerging economies is far far superior to both the USA or Europe. being an UMC family in Brazil, Ghana, Türkiye affords a much better quality of life and UMC lifestyle in Australia is fantastic but it is very far away. there is no doubt that the working class European is much better off than their US counterparts. |
Anonymous
| yikes ! just an aside- I inherited 2 of my properties but I can see how that sentence sounds discordant. |
Anonymous
You are comparing apples to oranges. You were able to get the care you needed because you have good insurance in the US. What you don't seem to understand is that you need health insurance in the US to get any care, and millions don't have it. Sure, you could go to the ER, but usually by then, your illness has progressed so far that there's no turning back. My cousin had no insurance and died of leukemia, stage 4 by the time they went to the ER. By contrast, my spouse's mother, sister, friends who had cancer in the UK were all treated, for free, and lived. The NHS will absolutely move you to the front of the queue if you have a life threatening illness. We pay a staggering $1700 for 3 people for a hdp that's basically catastrophic insurance. We looked into private insurance in the UK. It's half the cost. They don't cover pre-existing conditions (like the US used to do), but they will cover acute care resulting from the pre-existing condition. You can use NHS for the care that isn't covered. Also, many in the UK have private insurance through their work. So, they have the best of both worlds, unlike us. |
Anonymous
But you could also pay oop for the knee surgery which is cheaper than the US. Or go to places like Thailand or Korea to get quality medical care. At least you haven't been paying tens of thousands of dollars for basic catastrophic insurance like we have here, and then the crap insurance company could also deny the knee surgery. Then you have to spend many many hours on the phone with your insurance company fighting it. |
Anonymous
Depends on the country. The UK has higher debt loads for their graduates than Americans despite being only three years versus the US four years. And American students start out with higher salaries post graduation. And most European universities are far more bare bones, many students live at home and go to the local university. I do think we need reform in American higher education but there's also a lot of unrealistic expectations around American higher education too. If you lived at home and commuted to your local college, it's far cheaper than paying for a fancy private college. And that's the typical European approach. And we actually do have that option here and some people do go this route. But too many take debt to have the four year away from home experience when they can't afford it. |