Consensus world view of TOP 5/6 UK University Rankings (Prestige/Research)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand HK, SK and Canada still kicking our buttocks…. But Turkey really?
Surprised we are above India….

DS went to St Andrews and had a professor for Mathematics for Economists at St Andrews. She was educated in Turkey and surprised at how weak as a whole the US students were in math. Said course topics were covered in middle school in Turkey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the UK will resist the urge to taint their educational system with professors and administrators from the US. Will only lead to a loss of standards.

This has to be the most idiot comment of all time. So UCL getting MIT, Princeton and Wharton economics professors means lowering the stds? Get of you UK high horse…..what a joke

American and was referring to student admission standards. Hopeful that the UK will not move to holistic admission standards that only serve to dilute the educational experience.

I dont disagree. But there is no evidence or long term study that indicates Harvard or Yale grads (from holistic admissions) have had a disadvantage in their education experience vs Oxford/Cambridge grads…..Some would argue the opposite has been true for the last 40 years. Until someone can provide a peer-reviewed study that shows any statistically significant difference in both the quality of their education and in their future earnings due to holistic admissions I will continue to call BS on whether one or the other is a better process.

True. Plus there are several UK schools now that offer a more holistic approach to international students. Basically all Scottish unis. All Irish unis and several Russell Group unis offer holistic reviews

How are they more holistic?

They have their typical A levels process for their students, but for most internationals the process takes into account more than just grades. The essay on UCAS becomes more important to foreign students than UK students. Some schools even take essays outside of UCAS. Several Russell group unis no longer are bound to AP test scores, even if officially they ask for it. I know because my kid got into all 5 UCAS unis he applied to without taking one single AP test. Even SAT/ACT are not required by some schools.

Not requiring APs or SAT/ACT does not make their admissions process holistic. They are still asking for academic results. And they still don’t care whether your child won their state figure skating champagne or built a well in Guatemala.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the UK will resist the urge to taint their educational system with professors and administrators from the US. Will only lead to a loss of standards.

This has to be the most idiot comment of all time. So UCL getting MIT, Princeton and Wharton economics professors means lowering the stds? Get of you UK high horse…..what a joke

American and was referring to student admission standards. Hopeful that the UK will not move to holistic admission standards that only serve to dilute the educational experience.

I dont disagree. But there is no evidence or long term study that indicates Harvard or Yale grads (from holistic admissions) have had a disadvantage in their education experience vs Oxford/Cambridge grads…..Some would argue the opposite has been true for the last 40 years. Until someone can provide a peer-reviewed study that shows any statistically significant difference in both the quality of their education and in their future earnings due to holistic admissions I will continue to call BS on whether one or the other is a better process.

True. Plus there are several UK schools now that offer a more holistic approach to international students. Basically all Scottish unis. All Irish unis and several Russell Group unis offer holistic reviews

How are they more holistic?

They have their typical A levels process for their students, but for most internationals the process takes into account more than just grades. The essay on UCAS becomes more important to foreign students than UK students. Some schools even take essays outside of UCAS. Several Russell group unis no longer are bound to AP test scores, even if officially they ask for it. I know because my kid got into all 5 UCAS unis he applied to without taking one single AP test. Even SAT/ACT are not required by some schools.

Not requiring APs or SAT/ACT does not make their admissions process holistic. They are still asking for academic results. And they still don’t care whether your child won their state figure skating champagne or built a well in Guatemala.

Absolutely not true for international students, specially Americans. The only academic results some of these schools ask is the GPA….which they know is inflated….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the UK will resist the urge to taint their educational system with professors and administrators from the US. Will only lead to a loss of standards.

This has to be the most idiot comment of all time. So UCL getting MIT, Princeton and Wharton economics professors means lowering the stds? Get of you UK high horse…..what a joke

American and was referring to student admission standards. Hopeful that the UK will not move to holistic admission standards that only serve to dilute the educational experience.

I dont disagree. But there is no evidence or long term study that indicates Harvard or Yale grads (from holistic admissions) have had a disadvantage in their education experience vs Oxford/Cambridge grads…..Some would argue the opposite has been true for the last 40 years. Until someone can provide a peer-reviewed study that shows any statistically significant difference in both the quality of their education and in their future earnings due to holistic admissions I will continue to call BS on whether one or the other is a better process.

True. Plus there are several UK schools now that offer a more holistic approach to international students. Basically all Scottish unis. All Irish unis and several Russell Group unis offer holistic reviews

How are they more holistic?

They have their typical A levels process for their students, but for most internationals the process takes into account more than just grades. The essay on UCAS becomes more important to foreign students than UK students. Some schools even take essays outside of UCAS. Several Russell group unis no longer are bound to AP test scores, even if officially they ask for it. I know because my kid got into all 5 UCAS unis he applied to without taking one single AP test. Even SAT/ACT are not required by some schools.

Not requiring APs or SAT/ACT does not make their admissions process holistic. They are still asking for academic results. And they still don’t care whether your child won their state figure skating champagne or built a well in Guatemala.

Absolutely not true for international students, specially Americans. The only academic results some of these schools ask is the GPA….which they know is inflated….

Which Russell Group unis only require GPA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the UK will resist the urge to taint their educational system with professors and administrators from the US. Will only lead to a loss of standards.

This has to be the most idiot comment of all time. So UCL getting MIT, Princeton and Wharton economics professors means lowering the stds? Get of you UK high horse…..what a joke

American and was referring to student admission standards. Hopeful that the UK will not move to holistic admission standards that only serve to dilute the educational experience.

I dont disagree. But there is no evidence or long term study that indicates Harvard or Yale grads (from holistic admissions) have had a disadvantage in their education experience vs Oxford/Cambridge grads…..Some would argue the opposite has been true for the last 40 years. Until someone can provide a peer-reviewed study that shows any statistically significant difference in both the quality of their education and in their future earnings due to holistic admissions I will continue to call BS on whether one or the other is a better process.

True. Plus there are several UK schools now that offer a more holistic approach to international students. Basically all Scottish unis. All Irish unis and several Russell Group unis offer holistic reviews

How are they more holistic?

They have their typical A levels process for their students, but for most internationals the process takes into account more than just grades. The essay on UCAS becomes more important to foreign students than UK students. Some schools even take essays outside of UCAS. Several Russell group unis no longer are bound to AP test scores, even if officially they ask for it. I know because my kid got into all 5 UCAS unis he applied to without taking one single AP test. Even SAT/ACT are not required by some schools.

Not requiring APs or SAT/ACT does not make their admissions process holistic. They are still asking for academic results. And they still don’t care whether your child won their state figure skating champagne or built a well in Guatemala.

Absolutely not true for international students, specially Americans. The only academic results some of these schools ask is the GPA….which they know is inflated….

Which Russell Group unis only require GPA?

I’m not telling you. There are at least 4 of them, 2 of which my son was admitted to without APs or ACT/SAT…they claim they required it….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Which Russell Group unis only require GPA?

I’m not telling you. There are at least 4 of them, 2 of which my son was admitted to without APs or ACT/SAT…they claim they required it….

DP. Sigh. It would have been more helpful for the rest of us to know which are de facto test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the UK will resist the urge to taint their educational system with professors and administrators from the US. Will only lead to a loss of standards.

This has to be the most idiot comment of all time. So UCL getting MIT, Princeton and Wharton economics professors means lowering the stds? Get of you UK high horse…..what a joke

American and was referring to student admission standards. Hopeful that the UK will not move to holistic admission standards that only serve to dilute the educational experience.

I dont disagree. But there is no evidence or long term study that indicates Harvard or Yale grads (from holistic admissions) have had a disadvantage in their education experience vs Oxford/Cambridge grads…..Some would argue the opposite has been true for the last 40 years. Until someone can provide a peer-reviewed study that shows any statistically significant difference in both the quality of their education and in their future earnings due to holistic admissions I will continue to call BS on whether one or the other is a better process.

True. Plus there are several UK schools now that offer a more holistic approach to international students. Basically all Scottish unis. All Irish unis and several Russell Group unis offer holistic reviews

How are they more holistic?

They have their typical A levels process for their students, but for most internationals the process takes into account more than just grades. The essay on UCAS becomes more important to foreign students than UK students. Some schools even take essays outside of UCAS. Several Russell group unis no longer are bound to AP test scores, even if officially they ask for it. I know because my kid got into all 5 UCAS unis he applied to without taking one single AP test. Even SAT/ACT are not required by some schools.

Not requiring APs or SAT/ACT does not make their admissions process holistic. They are still asking for academic results. And they still don’t care whether your child won their state figure skating champagne or built a well in Guatemala.

Absolutely not true for international students, specially Americans. The only academic results some of these schools ask is the GPA….which they know is inflated….

Which Russell Group unis only require GPA?

I’m not telling you. There are at least 4 of them, 2 of which my son was admitted to without APs or ACT/SAT…they claim they required it….

Why won’t you tell us even one? It’s quite useful for other people to share information. Especially as you are saying they only required GPA and no transcript, standardised tests, APs, nothing else academic whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Never said no transcript. Of course you need transcripts….but yes, no standardized tests or APs. They all ask for APs. My kid went to a no AP high school in the west coast. Not IB and no APs. They only have Dual Credit and Honors courses.

If kid goes to a HS that offers AP classes you have no choice on the AP requirements.

It took us a long time and money spent with a counselor to find out what schools in the UK would accept a non AP/IB curriculum. There are dozens. We all know about St Andrews already. There are a couple in the Russell Group too. Great ones actually…Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Got some good data for Oxford here:

For the 3 years between 2022 and 2024, Oxford received 1482 applications from the US. 184 received offers. 12.4% Admission Rate. 61 US students admitted Per YEar. ( I dont know how many of those 94/yr actually attend).

Better yet, these are the easiest and hardest courses to get acceptance to (indicated by admissions %):

# Course Applications Offers Offer Rate (%)
1 Modern and Medieval Languages 7 3 42.86
2 Linguistics 27 11 40.74
3 History and Modern Languages 13 4 30.77
4 Classics (4 years) 10 3 30.0
5 Asian and Middle Eastern Studies 7 2 28.57
6 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 7 2 28.57
7 Archaeology 26 7 26.92
8 Theology, Religion and Philosophy of Rel... 8 2 25.0
9 Education 13 3 23.08
10 Anglo-Saxon, Norse, and Celtic 9 2 22.22
11 History of Art 14 3 21.43
12 Classics 16 3 18.75
13 History and Politics 40 6 15.0
14 Natural Sciences 196 28 14.29
15 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 22 3 13.64
16 Computer Science 126 17 13.49
17 Architecture 38 5 13.16
18 Mathematics 156 20 12.82
19 Geography 16 2 12.5
20 History 32 4 12.5
21 Philosophy 25 3 12.0
22 Law 80 9 11.25
23 Economics 63 7 11.11
24 English 51 5 9.8
25 Human, Social, and Political Sciences 134 13 9.7
26 Engineering 113 10 8.85
27 Land Economy 28 2 7.14
28 Veterinary Medicine 32 2 6.25
29 Psychological and Behavioural Sciences 67 3 4.48
30 Music 2 0 0.0
31 Medicine (Graduate course) 23 0 0.0
32 Medicine 75 0 0.0
33 Chemical Engineering via Engineering 3 0 0.0

Thank you! This is great info. I would have thought that Math and Econ was harder to get in than English or Political Science….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Never said no transcript. Of course you need transcripts….but yes, no standardized tests or APs. They all ask for APs. My kid went to a no AP high school in the west coast. Not IB and no APs. They only have Dual Credit and Honors courses.

If kid goes to a HS that offers AP classes you have no choice on the AP requirements.

It took us a long time and money spent with a counselor to find out what schools in the UK would accept a non AP/IB curriculum. There are dozens. We all know about St Andrews already. There are a couple in the Russell Group too. Great ones actually…Good luck!

I also heard directly from a St. Andrews rep that they understand that students from well-regarded independent schools do not take AP exams. Rep said that St. Andrews will fully consider their applications anyway. Seems the US St. Andrews reps are willing/ able to judge school quality. I got the impression that no APs, if your kid goes to a school that offers APs, is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never said no transcript. Of course you need transcripts….but yes, no standardized tests or APs. They all ask for APs. My kid went to a no AP high school in the west coast. Not IB and no APs. They only have Dual Credit and Honors courses.

If kid goes to a HS that offers AP classes you have no choice on the AP requirements.

It took us a long time and money spent with a counselor to find out what schools in the UK would accept a non AP/IB curriculum. There are dozens. We all know about St Andrews already. There are a couple in the Russell Group too. Great ones actually…Good luck!

I also heard directly from a St. Andrews rep that they understand that students from well-regarded independent schools do not take AP exams. Rep said that St. Andrews will fully consider their applications anyway. Seems the US St. Andrews reps are willing/ able to judge school quality. I got the impression that no APs, if your kid goes to a school that offers APs, is a problem.

That is correct. That avenue only exists for kids whose schools are not IBs and do not offer APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Got some good data for Oxford here:

For the 3 years between 2022 and 2024, Oxford received 1482 applications from the US. 184 received offers. 12.4% Admission Rate. 61 US students admitted Per YEar. ( I dont know how many of those 94/yr actually attend).

Better yet, these are the easiest and hardest courses to get acceptance to (indicated by admissions %):

# Course Applications Offers Offer Rate (%)
1 Modern and Medieval Languages 7 3 42.86
2 Linguistics 27 11 40.74
3 History and Modern Languages 13 4 30.77
4 Classics (4 years) 10 3 30.0
5 Asian and Middle Eastern Studies 7 2 28.57
6 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 7 2 28.57
7 Archaeology 26 7 26.92
8 Theology, Religion and Philosophy of Rel... 8 2 25.0
9 Education 13 3 23.08
10 Anglo-Saxon, Norse, and Celtic 9 2 22.22
11 History of Art 14 3 21.43
12 Classics 16 3 18.75
13 History and Politics 40 6 15.0
14 Natural Sciences 196 28 14.29
15 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 22 3 13.64
16 Computer Science 126 17 13.49
17 Architecture 38 5 13.16
18 Mathematics 156 20 12.82
19 Geography 16 2 12.5
20 History 32 4 12.5
21 Philosophy 25 3 12.0
22 Law 80 9 11.25
23 Economics 63 7 11.11
24 English 51 5 9.8
25 Human, Social, and Political Sciences 134 13 9.7
26 Engineering 113 10 8.85
27 Land Economy 28 2 7.14
28 Veterinary Medicine 32 2 6.25
29 Psychological and Behavioural Sciences 67 3 4.48
30 Music 2 0 0.0
31 Medicine (Graduate course) 23 0 0.0
32 Medicine 75 0 0.0
33 Chemical Engineering via Engineering 3 0 0.0

Is Land Economy equivalent to real estate majors in business schools in the US or is it an Economics degree focuses on property?

[Anonymous]

My kid is applying through UCAS this fall.

He wants to apply to:
1. Oxford
2. UCL
3. St Andrews
4. Edinburgh
5. Bristol or Exeter

If he picks 5 spots on UCAS, can he apply to St Andrews direct as the 6th spot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is applying through UCAS this fall.

He wants to apply to:
1. Oxford
2. UCL
3. St Andrews
4. Edinburgh
5. Bristol or Exeter

If he picks 5 spots on UCAS, can he apply to St Andrews direct as the 6th spot?

I think DC can do 5 through UCAS and then also direct/CommonApp for StA.

Between Exeter snd Bristol, look closely at how they compare for DC's specific intended degree ("major").

I am a UCL alum. Housing in London is both expensive and tight. Worse than at EDI or StA. DC should jump on whichever Fresher housing DC can get - if accepted at UCL - do not delay.

If it is at all practical, try to visit the Uk this summer and visit all of the above universities to get a sense of how they differ. Add 2-3 other universities if time allows, as visiting one or another might impact DC's preferences. Just understand that days are noticeably longer and sunnier in summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got some good data for Oxford here:

For the 3 years between 2022 and 2024, Oxford received 1482 applications from the US. 184 received offers. 12.4% Admission Rate. 61 US students admitted Per YEar. ( I dont know how many of those 94/yr actually attend).

Better yet, these are the easiest and hardest courses to get acceptance to (indicated by admissions %):

# Course Applications Offers Offer Rate (%)
1 Modern and Medieval Languages 7 3 42.86
2 Linguistics 27 11 40.74
3 History and Modern Languages 13 4 30.77
4 Classics (4 years) 10 3 30.0
5 Asian and Middle Eastern Studies 7 2 28.57
6 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 7 2 28.57
7 Archaeology 26 7 26.92
8 Theology, Religion and Philosophy of Rel... 8 2 25.0
9 Education 13 3 23.08
10 Anglo-Saxon, Norse, and Celtic 9 2 22.22
11 History of Art 14 3 21.43
12 Classics 16 3 18.75
13 History and Politics 40 6 15.0
14 Natural Sciences 196 28 14.29
15 Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology (... 22 3 13.64
16 Computer Science 126 17 13.49
17 Architecture 38 5 13.16
18 Mathematics 156 20 12.82
19 Geography 16 2 12.5
20 History 32 4 12.5
21 Philosophy 25 3 12.0
22 Law 80 9 11.25
23 Economics 63 7 11.11
24 English 51 5 9.8
25 Human, Social, and Political Sciences 134 13 9.7
26 Engineering 113 10 8.85
27 Land Economy 28 2 7.14
28 Veterinary Medicine 32 2 6.25
29 Psychological and Behavioural Sciences 67 3 4.48
30 Music 2 0 0.0
31 Medicine (Graduate course) 23 0 0.0
32 Medicine 75 0 0.0
33 Chemical Engineering via Engineering 3 0 0.0

Is Land Economy equivalent to real estate majors in business schools in the US or is it an Economics degree focuses on property?

Neither. It’s the degree for posh farming families in the UK and/or the very few kids who are “recruited” for rowing (unofficially as sports recruiting isn’t a thing, except that Oxford and Cambridge like to win in the boat race)