schools w/ no merit aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Personally think a graduate of Virginia Tech or Penn State is going to do far better than one from Bryn Mawr. Why? Name recognition and the size of the alumni network.

That’s a great thought, but what you don’t realize is that Beth Mawr is a 7 sisters school which has a quite large (because it’s 7 schools alumni networks combine) and extremely loyal and tight alumni network. Big state schools are a dime a dozen and the brand loyalty isn’t the same. And if you went to a big state school saying you never heard of Bryn Mawr just shows poorly on you, not the bryn mawr grad. People who have gone to more elite schools have the recognition of schools like Haverford, swarthmore, Wellesley, middlebury, Amherst, smith, Williams, etc. they don’t care about your Penn State degree.

I went to a T10 university, and if I was hiring, would not give an advantage to a kid who went to a slac over a state school. Particularly a seven sister school, because very few kids are even willing to attend them these days. But thanks for your efforts to be condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

Yup!
You made choices and now should live with those choices (without complaining). You should be able to recognized that you are still way more privileged than most families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

I just rank 180k with no savings, a 400k house with a 100k remaining mortgage balance through Wellesley's calculator and the expected parent contribution was 43k a year in addition to a loan. To me that's a fairly crushing amount of money for a 180k hhi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the parents who didn’t themselves go to T20 schools that overstate their importance. It’s not the golden meal ticket you think it is, the majority of students at these schools still have painfully average careers.

Both myself and my partner attending T10 schools. We have never used any connections from those schools once we graduated. Yes, I'll admit that graduating in the early 90s, we both benefited from the school, in that not as many companies were hiring but we found jobs since companies were still going to these schools. However, I went on at least 10, 2nd interviews at larger companies (including Ford, Anderson,Bell Labs etc) and at least half the interviewees at these sessions were not T20 students. At the company who ultimately hired me, our incoming group of new hires (we knew each other as we lived together for summer then went off to grad school in fall), only 30-40% were from T20 schools, rest were from T60-80 schools, and at least 20% outside of those ranges, even in a difficult time to find a job.

But after our first jobs, we have NEVER used connections/alumni networks to get jobs. All future jobs have come because of the hard work, dedication we have done. Literally nobody asks about where you went to undergrad----they want to hear about your projects, and references from people who've worked with you. And even with our first jobs, we got hired because we both had over 3.9GPA in engineering at T10 schools---we earned our jobs by doing well. And my data points indicate that we would have still found jobs even if at a T100 school, because we would have networked/used resources until we landed a job because that's our work ethic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

I just rank 180k with no savings, a 400k house with a 100k remaining mortgage balance through Wellesley's calculator and the expected parent contribution was 43k a year in addition to a loan. To me that's a fairly crushing amount of money for a 180k hhi.

Agree. However, colleges seem to expect you to have saved for the kid's education over the past 18 years.

It's funny how they all act charitable with their 'we meet your full "demonstrated need"' BS when they get to define what that "demonstrated need" is, regardless of where you live! And we, the people, fund their huge tax breaks! Pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

I just rank 180k with no savings, a 400k house with a 100k remaining mortgage balance through Wellesley's calculator and the expected parent contribution was 43k a year in addition to a loan. To me that's a fairly crushing amount of money for a 180k hhi.

So if you have not saved anything, then you can't really afford it. So accept that and move on. There are literally plenty of really good schools that you could afford, especially if your kid has the stats for Wellesley

Nobody is saying you cant'a attend college, there are tons of excellent schools so focus on those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

I just rank 180k with no savings, a 400k house with a 100k remaining mortgage balance through Wellesley's calculator and the expected parent contribution was 43k a year in addition to a loan. To me that's a fairly crushing amount of money for a 180k hhi.

So if you have not saved anything, then you can't really afford it. So accept that and move on. There are literally plenty of really good schools that you could afford, especially if your kid has the stats for Wellesley

Nobody is saying you cant'a attend college, there are tons of excellent schools so focus on those.

I'm just using PP's number. Around here, those stats would be teachers or city workers, not people I'd normally consider upper middle class but they somehow sneak into the donut hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the parents who didn’t themselves go to T20 schools that overstate their importance. It’s not the golden meal ticket you think it is, the majority of students at these schools still have painfully average careers.

Both myself and my partner attending T10 schools. We have never used any connections from those schools once we graduated. Yes, I'll admit that graduating in the early 90s, we both benefited from the school, in that not as many companies were hiring but we found jobs since companies were still going to these schools. However, I went on at least 10, 2nd interviews at larger companies (including Ford, Anderson,Bell Labs etc) and at least half the interviewees at these sessions were not T20 students. At the company who ultimately hired me, our incoming group of new hires (we knew each other as we lived together for summer then went off to grad school in fall), only 30-40% were from T20 schools, rest were from T60-80 schools, and at least 20% outside of those ranges, even in a difficult time to find a job.

But after our first jobs, we have NEVER used connections/alumni networks to get jobs. All future jobs have come because of the hard work, dedication we have done. Literally nobody asks about where you went to undergrad----they want to hear about your projects, and references from people who've worked with you. And even with our first jobs, we got hired because we both had over 3.9GPA in engineering at T10 schools---we earned our jobs by doing well. And my data points indicate that we would have still found jobs even if at a T100 school, because we would have networked/used resources until we landed a job because that's our work ethic.

I don't understand why you are bragging about never using connections/alumni networks after your first jobs. The natural question is...why the heck not? To each their own, but I am aware of plenty of folks (myself included) that went on to found successful companies, became P/E partners, etc. that absolutely worked their network of fellow graduates/friends and alumni.

Your personal network and the alumni network are the most important reasons to go to a Top 10 school...why you wouldn't work them is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

Yup!
You made choices and now should live with those choices (without complaining). You should be able to recognized that you are still way more privileged than most families.

It always comes down to choices made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the parents who didn’t themselves go to T20 schools that overstate their importance. It’s not the golden meal ticket you think it is, the majority of students at these schools still have painfully average careers.

Both myself and my partner attending T10 schools. We have never used any connections from those schools once we graduated. Yes, I'll admit that graduating in the early 90s, we both benefited from the school, in that not as many companies were hiring but we found jobs since companies were still going to these schools. However, I went on at least 10, 2nd interviews at larger companies (including Ford, Anderson,Bell Labs etc) and at least half the interviewees at these sessions were not T20 students. At the company who ultimately hired me, our incoming group of new hires (we knew each other as we lived together for summer then went off to grad school in fall), only 30-40% were from T20 schools, rest were from T60-80 schools, and at least 20% outside of those ranges, even in a difficult time to find a job.

But after our first jobs, we have NEVER used connections/alumni networks to get jobs. All future jobs have come because of the hard work, dedication we have done. Literally nobody asks about where you went to undergrad----they want to hear about your projects, and references from people who've worked with you. And even with our first jobs, we got hired because we both had over 3.9GPA in engineering at T10 schools---we earned our jobs by doing well. And my data points indicate that we would have still found jobs even if at a T100 school, because we would have networked/used resources until we landed a job because that's our work ethic.

I did my undergrad at a mediocre school in another country, worked and moved to the US for grad school (at an average state school), eventually switching over to IT management. I do find kids coming out of these 'hoity toity' schools to be smart, well spoken and present themselves very well but for any work needing experience, I could care less about their educational pedigree.

My kids will likely end up in CS or adjacent fields (I'm shepherding them in that direction unless they show strong interest in something else) where a good chunk of the hiring managers would be like me, foreigners who 'grew up' in corporate America. They only care about performance and wouldn't care two hoots about a top school.

What I keep hearing is that there are certain opportunities (e.g. Investment banking) that are more open to kids from top schools than to other kids. For example, will Goldman Sachs or a boutique wall street firm be more willing to hire a student from, say Williams, who's an average student vs. say a student at the 75th percentile from Virginia Tech, assuming the same degree and resume profile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get this is not everyone, but if you’ve done a major kitchen and bathroom remodel when those rooms were totally functional but just outdated, and you are driving two fully loaded 50k vehicles and you have a lawn service and cleaning service and your average athlete kids play travel hockey etc etc, you threw yourself right into that donut hole yourself.

In a high COL area, the donut hole hits families who could never afford a 50k car or major renovations. Around here, a teacher married to a cop can earn enough to hit donut hole status

This is true. Our closest friends are a teacher and a non-profit grants manager with a HHI of <180k. They live in a tiny, dated, starter house in Silver Spring, drive 10 year old cars (which they bought used) and have only been on one long-weekend trip to Europe, paid for by her parents. All other years they spend a week in Ocean City. They qualified for zero financial aid.

So - an AGI of 150k or less let’s you attend Columbia at no cost. Most top schools (the ones OP is complaining about) do give financial aid at that income level absent significant non-retirement assets. At a state school perhaps no financial aid but at private schools yes financial aid at a HHI of 180K (with an obviously lower AGI).

I just rank 180k with no savings, a 400k house with a 100k remaining mortgage balance through Wellesley's calculator and the expected parent contribution was 43k a year in addition to a loan. To me that's a fairly crushing amount of money for a 180k hhi.

If you make 180K and only have 100K in mortgage debt I would say you should be able to cashflow a lot. Their taxable income is 154,100, their federal tax is about $17500. Their mortgage is likely less than $1000/month and they take home over $100,000/year. Just sayin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the parents who didn’t themselves go to T20 schools that overstate their importance. It’s not the golden meal ticket you think it is, the majority of students at these schools still have painfully average careers.

Both myself and my partner attending T10 schools. We have never used any connections from those schools once we graduated. Yes, I'll admit that graduating in the early 90s, we both benefited from the school, in that not as many companies were hiring but we found jobs since companies were still going to these schools. However, I went on at least 10, 2nd interviews at larger companies (including Ford, Anderson,Bell Labs etc) and at least half the interviewees at these sessions were not T20 students. At the company who ultimately hired me, our incoming group of new hires (we knew each other as we lived together for summer then went off to grad school in fall), only 30-40% were from T20 schools, rest were from T60-80 schools, and at least 20% outside of those ranges, even in a difficult time to find a job.

But after our first jobs, we have NEVER used connections/alumni networks to get jobs. All future jobs have come because of the hard work, dedication we have done. Literally nobody asks about where you went to undergrad----they want to hear about your projects, and references from people who've worked with you. And even with our first jobs, we got hired because we both had over 3.9GPA in engineering at T10 schools---we earned our jobs by doing well. And my data points indicate that we would have still found jobs even if at a T100 school, because we would have networked/used resources until we landed a job because that's our work ethic.

I did my undergrad at a mediocre school in another country, worked and moved to the US for grad school (at an average state school), eventually switching over to IT management. I do find kids coming out of these 'hoity toity' schools to be smart, well spoken and present themselves very well but for any work needing experience, I could care less about their educational pedigree.

My kids will likely end up in CS or adjacent fields (I'm shepherding them in that direction unless they show strong interest in something else) where a good chunk of the hiring managers would be like me, foreigners who 'grew up' in corporate America. They only care about performance and wouldn't care two hoots about a top school.

What I keep hearing is that there are certain opportunities (e.g. Investment banking) that are more open to kids from top schools than to other kids. For example, will Goldman Sachs or a boutique wall street firm be more willing to hire a student from, say Williams, who's an average student vs. say a student at the 75th percentile from Virginia Tech, assuming the same degree and resume profile?

the answer to your question is neither

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s the parents who didn’t themselves go to T20 schools that overstate their importance. It’s not the golden meal ticket you think it is, the majority of students at these schools still have painfully average careers.

Both myself and my partner attending T10 schools. We have never used any connections from those schools once we graduated. Yes, I'll admit that graduating in the early 90s, we both benefited from the school, in that not as many companies were hiring but we found jobs since companies were still going to these schools. However, I went on at least 10, 2nd interviews at larger companies (including Ford, Anderson,Bell Labs etc) and at least half the interviewees at these sessions were not T20 students. At the company who ultimately hired me, our incoming group of new hires (we knew each other as we lived together for summer then went off to grad school in fall), only 30-40% were from T20 schools, rest were from T60-80 schools, and at least 20% outside of those ranges, even in a difficult time to find a job.

But after our first jobs, we have NEVER used connections/alumni networks to get jobs. All future jobs have come because of the hard work, dedication we have done. Literally nobody asks about where you went to undergrad----they want to hear about your projects, and references from people who've worked with you. And even with our first jobs, we got hired because we both had over 3.9GPA in engineering at T10 schools---we earned our jobs by doing well. And my data points indicate that we would have still found jobs even if at a T100 school, because we would have networked/used resources until we landed a job because that's our work ethic.

I did my undergrad at a mediocre school in another country, worked and moved to the US for grad school (at an average state school), eventually switching over to IT management. I do find kids coming out of these 'hoity toity' schools to be smart, well spoken and present themselves very well but for any work needing experience, I could care less about their educational pedigree.

My kids will likely end up in CS or adjacent fields (I'm shepherding them in that direction unless they show strong interest in something else) where a good chunk of the hiring managers would be like me, foreigners who 'grew up' in corporate America. They only care about performance and wouldn't care two hoots about a top school.

What I keep hearing is that there are certain opportunities (e.g. Investment banking) that are more open to kids from top schools than to other kids. For example, will Goldman Sachs or a boutique wall street firm be more willing to hire a student from, say Williams, who's an average student vs. say a student at the 75th percentile from Virginia Tech, assuming the same degree and resume profile?

You have to think differently. The "average" kid from Williams is more likely to have a parent or parent friend that works at GS and/or can tap a bunch of alumni that work at GS. The Virginia Tech kid is unlikely to have much of either.