Think twice before hiring an advocate…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

[Anonymous]

OP seems to be advocating for a child to receive services in the areas that they are below where they should be. An IEP isn't just a personalized menu of supports that a parent can pick from. I certainly wouldn't want to work in special education if every decision I make is constantly questioned by laypeople who haven't gone to school to learn how to educate children with special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here!
This was not a child denied an IEP. This was a child found eligible and given proposed goals in an area where they are approximately a grade level below average. The parent/advocate honed in on their iq score being in the high average range and decided they also need goals in a different area, where they were performing average but not meeting “their potential”. So the fight was about how many hours and whether they also need hours in an area they are currently successful in.

I’ve been part of several conversations like this so I don’t think this is particularly identifying information.

As a parent, don’t you want your child to reach their full potential? Any good parent would advocate and do what ever they can to make sure that their child has the best.

Any good parent wants their child to reach their full potential, and a good parent also understands the limits of what the school's job is.

Because our society doesn't value education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

Ours has clusters of SN and clusters of gifted kids spread across the classes. There was no single class that had either SN or gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a special education teacher (I also have a child with an IEP, so I have personal skin in the game). We just got the news that two of our fellow teachers have quit following a prolonged battle with a family and their advocate. This family required at least four IEP meetings to get to an IEP they’d be willing to sign- insulting and demoralizing two excellent teachers in the process who hadn’t even WORKED with the child yet.

Mostly I’m just asking you to assume good will. Stop coming into meetings assuming we want to screw your child’s life up and deny them FAPE. This was a particularly egregious case for me because it’s a child whose academics are so close to grade level!! And we were offering the child a good supportive plan to help them get there.
We are doing the best we can to serve ALL students with needs and come Monday my caseload is about 5 students higher. You don’t need to hire an advocate before you even meet with the team once. We aren’t out to deny your kid what they need to succeed academically.

Meaning your team came in prepared to give them the bare minimum because you've got more pressing issues on your case load.

Or maybe because they have X number of other students, and the reality is that they can't meet all of the needs some classrooms have.

I can see both sides. If giving one child more than the bare minimum means neglecting or not provided mandated services to three other students, which should they do? In many schools now, there are not enough special educators to provide more than the minimum to students. Many school districts have tried hiring more special education specialists, but even with incentives, there aren't enough people applying for the positions. If they only have enough staff to provide the bare minimum to all students, what does PP expect them to do? They are required by law to provide education for these students, so they have to ensure that everyone gets the bare minimum. If they have addtional staff or time, they can do more than the minimum, but in many school systems, that just isn't possible. There are only so many things that teachers can do when they don't have sufficient staffing or resources.

When, in your own job, you have been assigned too much work to complete, what do you do? You raise it to your leadership to identify how leadership wants you to handle it and to identify what your priorities are. If your leadership does not provide relief, you are in a unionized job and you want to stay in that job or feel committed to your clients/customers/students, what do you do? You bring it up with your union - must like nurses' unions are doing across the country. Why aren't the teachers' unions addressing this issue in addition to school administrations?

At some point, it will require more funding.

Any politicians willing to fund it?

Are you willing to fund it through your property taxes or getting a health insurance that covers more? How about funding directly your child’s SN education?

The cost per SN student is 3 times the one for NT students. One could argue that’s a reasonable amount if funding.

I am 100% willing to pay more taxes if that more more kids can get the support that they need.

If school districts do not have the funds to comply with federal law - maybe they should think about cutting things that are not federal mandates?
Imagine if ......
instead of having after school sports - they put all of that money into elementary in order to support students with learning?

Lots of thing can be cut. All students reading on or above grade level should be the top priority before leaving elementary school. Anyone who does not agree should not be in the school system. Kids cannot function in school with being able to read.

My DC has profound dyslexia. He has always read below grade level despite a great amount of intervention at school and with private tutoring and home interventions. He functions quite well academically with the appropriate accommodations - which he received in public school, undergraduate school and now receives in graduate school. I agree that the vast majority or almost all reading at grade level should be the goal, but there are exceptions.

OK, but OP is not talking about your situation - your kid WAS “significantly below grade level” and OP agrees that he should have an IEP and special instruction. Your kid got a lot of intervention, and still didn’t make progress, and you are OK with that.

But, the parents who are objecting to OP’s criticism of parents who press for IEP’s are not you. They are parent’s whose kids are not “significantly” below grade level. OP says these children should not get IEPs and should not get any special instruction.

I can also tell you that there are other parents of dyslexic (or other disabilities) kids who continually press for more instruction despite no or little improvement; those parents are usually contending that their kid is not receiving evidence-based special instruction or who are not receiving enough of it or are not receiving it from a qualified teacher. For example, MCPS, for decades, has failed to train special Ed and regular teachers in special reading instruction that evidence shows is most effective for dyslexics - instructional packages that explicitly teach the sound symbol relationship. Only in the last few years has MCPS started training in these methods. Meanwhile, all those dyslexic kids were either getting turned down for special instruction because they were only a little behind or were not getting appropriate instruction. Both these things are against the law, and as a result many parents hold multiple IEP meetings and hire advocates and attorneys to get what the law requires.

I was not responding to the OP. I was responding to the pp immediately before my post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

Ours has clusters of SN and clusters of gifted kids spread across the classes. There was no single class that had either SN or gifted.

Where do they put the students who are SN and gifted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Good for you? All districts (MCPS, DCPS, Virgina districts) have self-contained classrooms for all grade levels. Nationwide, approximately 60% of students with IEPs spend the majority of the time in general education, leaving nearly half who do not. Not sure why you are bragging about not being able to think of a student with a more profound disability who needs one of these programs. It could also be that your specific school doesn't have a self-contained program, so those students are bussed to a different school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

All districts have self-contained programs at the elementary level - they just aren't in each building. The classrooms are clustered at specific schools, and students who need them are placed at a school other than their home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

All districts have self-contained programs at the elementary level - they just aren't in each building. The classrooms are clustered at specific schools, and students who need them are placed at a school other than their home school.

Oops - misread your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

Ours has clusters of SN and clusters of gifted kids spread across the classes. There was no single class that had either SN or gifted.

Every school is run differently, we had a SN class but not a gifted class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More references supporting IDEA. A child cannot be labeled as having an educational disability without having a SIGNIFIANT impairment. A child cannot be removed from the general education setting unless the nature and severity of the disability REQUIRE this.

https://sites.ed.gov/idea/statute-chapter-33/subchapter-ii/1412

"To the maximum extent appropriate, children with disabilities, including children in public or private institutions or other care facilities, are educated with children who are not disabled, and special classes, separate schooling, or other removal of children with disabilities from the regular educational environment occurs only when the nature or severity of the disability of a child is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily."

Virginia Department of Education- several documents about eligibility and special education services
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/programs-services/special-education/evaluation-and-eligibility

In my experience, special education teachers are following the law. Families do not like the LAW and want MORE for their child than the law REQUIRES. If you want MORE, you should use your OWN money and time OUTSIDE of school hours to do MORE for your child. Do not attach school professionals for following the LAW. Do not think that your child is more important than all the others. And the FCPS families nickeling and diming FCPS for OCR- SHAME ON YOU! Schools all over the country did the same or worse and they aren't paying! You take your hostility and entitlement and make all the other children and staff suffer and it is despicable. This is why staff do not want to work for FCPS! Because of the families who have rediculuos impossible expectations and think they are entitled to the sun, moon, and stars.

There is a huge difference between "room for growth" and "educational disability."

There is a huge difference between "services that are REQUIRED" and services that would be "beneficial" or "what families want."

We live in an area where families expect to get whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

I am NOT referring to students of disabilities who actually REQUIRE services. And I am sure there are families who have had "bad apples." However, 99.5% of special education teachers, school administrators, and teachers are wonderful, following the law, and doing the right thing. You just want to fight and hae zero respect. 99% of families with advocates just simply do not accept federal LAW and expect "More" for their child.

sorry, who was asking for removal from gen ed in this thread? you seem confused.

Where do you think special education services take place? Usually not in general education settings. Yes, there are push-in options, but pull-outs are still more common. Pulling out of gen ed to provide special education is more restrictive than not doing so.

No you are wrong. It sounds like you have a 1980s view of special education. The majority of students with IEPs are in gen ed settings the majority of the time.

+1

I can't think of a single kid at my kid's school that isn't gen ed most of the time. My kid is full-time gen ed with a co-teacher in certain classes.

Most ES don't have separate special ed classes. It would be nice if schools did. Ours had a mixed class where they dumped all the IEP kids regardless of need into one classroom and you could not get into a regular class with an IEP so the only way out was to drop the IEP.

All districts have self-contained programs at the elementary level - they just aren't in each building. The classrooms are clustered at specific schools, and students who need them are placed at a school other than their home school.

There is a very big threshold in MCPS to get your child in one of those classes. And, there aren't enough for all students who need it. Many families fight for year to get that level of support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP seems to be advocating for a child to receive services in the areas that they are below where they should be. An IEP isn't just a personalized menu of supports that a parent can pick from. I certainly wouldn't want to work in special education if every decision I make is constantly questioned by laypeople who haven't gone to school to learn how to educate children with special needs.

Usually if a child is struggling, it happens in all areas even if a child can mask some of it well. Refusing services to help a child who needs it speaks volumes of OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jaw dropped. IDEA clearly states that it is against the law to label a child with an educational disability unless they have a significant impairment or need. That means below grade level or SIGNIFICANTLY behind peers.

Ok I'll bite, please show us where the law says this.

I'm waaaaaating.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic should be: Think twice before trusting a school to meet your child's needs.

Totally, a Sped teacher telling parents not to hire an advocate really says it all.

What really says it all to me, as a sped teacher, are parents telling other parents to hire an advocate before they even meet their child's team.

It says:
1) I don't trust the school team to understand my child's needs.
2) I don't trust the school team to give my child what he does need, if they figure it out.
3) I need to hire an outside person, who is financially benefiting from my child's school "trying to fail them". That person will actually DO their job unlike these school people who are out trying to actively hurt kids and deny what they need! (what a joke).

The adversarial relationship that is started before day one does not benefit your child. But by all means, continue hiring advocates, continue fighting over the wording of that goal, continue acting like your child's teachers are enemies and hacks who know nothing.

Just don't be surprised when there is a post a few days later stating " My child can't get their services because there is no teacher to provide them" (literally a post from the top of this board this week).