Rigor at TJ compared to regular FCPS high Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

The new students are more naturally gifted than the 3rd tier peppers who were getting in under the old system. They may be less prepared but seem to pick things up more quickly, so in the long run, they're actually doing much better.

Less prepared in math and science. That was expected! Farcical essay can't evaluate preparedness in necessary math and science.

I've watched over 10,000 kids graduate from TJ in my lifetime, and I can tell you that the way they approach TJ once they're inside the building matters a hell of a lot more than how "prepared" they were when they got admitted. I've seen Alg1 kids who struggled mightily for their first year or two and turned out to be superstars when they left, and I've seen kids who entered in Calc BC and beyond flame out because they couldn't handle actually being challenged academically for the first time in their lives.

Their grades in their curricular classes tell me everything I need to know about whether or not they're "prepared enough". Testing isn't helpful beyond that point. Give me 1000 words that lend me insight into your approach and how you've handled adversity and I'll tell you whether or not you'll be a success at TJ and whether or not you'll add value to the institution.

One problem here is that not all "problem solvers" are good writers.

[Anonymous]

FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

The new students are more naturally gifted than the 3rd tier peppers who were getting in under the old system. They may be less prepared but seem to pick things up more quickly, so in the long run, they're actually doing much better.

Less prepared in math and science. That was expected! Farcical essay can't evaluate preparedness in necessary math and science.

I've watched over 10,000 kids graduate from TJ in my lifetime, and I can tell you that the way they approach TJ once they're inside the building matters a hell of a lot more than how "prepared" they were when they got admitted. I've seen Alg1 kids who struggled mightily for their first year or two and turned out to be superstars when they left, and I've seen kids who entered in Calc BC and beyond flame out because they couldn't handle actually being challenged academically for the first time in their lives.

Their grades in their curricular classes tell me everything I need to know about whether or not they're "prepared enough". Testing isn't helpful beyond that point. Give me 1000 words that lend me insight into your approach and how you've handled adversity and I'll tell you whether or not you'll be a success at TJ and whether or not you'll add value to the institution.

One problem here is that not all "problem solvers" are good writers.

Certainly true. But no TJ admissions process will ever be able to perfectly identify the exact 550 students who will make the best contributors to the environment... nor should it expect to.

The bottom line is, no one knows EXACTLY what the people evaluating the essays are actually looking for. And that's a good thing, because transparency in an admissions process incentivizes parents to narrowly tailor their child's life in order to optimize their chances for admission - an objectively deeply unhealthy behavior. And no one is guaranteed admission, nor should they be. Viewing it as a prize to be won because it's a scarce resource instead of as a taxpayer-funded educational opportunity is a mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

The new students are more naturally gifted than the 3rd tier peppers who were getting in under the old system. They may be less prepared but seem to pick things up more quickly, so in the long run, they're actually doing much better.

Less prepared in math and science. That was expected! Farcical essay can't evaluate preparedness in necessary math and science.

I've watched over 10,000 kids graduate from TJ in my lifetime, and I can tell you that the way they approach TJ once they're inside the building matters a hell of a lot more than how "prepared" they were when they got admitted. I've seen Alg1 kids who struggled mightily for their first year or two and turned out to be superstars when they left, and I've seen kids who entered in Calc BC and beyond flame out because they couldn't handle actually being challenged academically for the first time in their lives.

Their grades in their curricular classes tell me everything I need to know about whether or not they're "prepared enough". Testing isn't helpful beyond that point. Give me 1000 words that lend me insight into your approach and how you've handled adversity and I'll tell you whether or not you'll be a success at TJ and whether or not you'll add value to the institution.

I have watched 10,000 + 1 kids enter TJ, and unprepared students who get admitted struggle a lot, and mostly drop out mostly during freshman. Other who reluctantly hang in there, struggle with grades and do not go past the bare minimum Calc AB, even with a ton of remedial help. Whereas prepared students, most of them who attend enrichment centers outside school and participate in an array of math and science competitions in middle school, have a wholesome experience at TJ taking advanced math and science classes, and participating in clubs, sports, and having fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

Both of the links that have been posted have referred explicitly to test scores.

No one disputes the fact that Asian American students are exceptional test takers compared to any other demographic. Test taking ability (not intelligence - but specifically test taking ability) has tracked for decades in America with access to educational prestige, and Asian families have rightly prioritized it as a critical skill for as long as they've been here in America. And they've done so frequently at the expense of other things that are important to a child's development.

The rules are changing - not because there are too many Asians, but because testing has been observed to occlude selection processes ESPECIALLY when they are used as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Caltech - perhaps the single greatest STEM institution on the planet and the closest analog to TJ at the post-secondary level - stopped accepting exam submissions years ago and their data concluded that the students they were admitting were no less prepared than previous classes.

Stop being obsessed with test scores and maybe you'll get back to competing on the level that you used to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

One does not have to be an expert in heritage and cultures, but a significant number of the student names appear to be of Asian American ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

One does not have to be an expert in heritage and cultures, but a significant number of the student names appear to be of Asian American ethnicity.

You would expect that of a program whose sole criteria (in this instance) is performance on a standardized exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

seems interesting
Alg I - Pass Advanced dropped from 70% (20-21) to 29% in 21-22 and up to 56% in 22-23
Alg II - PA dropped from 63 to 53 then up to 58
Geometry - PA dropped from 73 to 42 and finally 41
Biology - PA dropped form 66 to 53 and now 58

Anyone want to talk about how 20-21 was Covid and declines in grades/scores declined everywhere? I know people won't want to hear this but mental health and social wellness impacts academic performance (in addition to remote learning). But, by all means, let's talk about how its all about "the lack of rigor" and "unqualified students." Interestingly, RS1 students are currently learning about biases in data collection. Maybe some parents on this board should take the course.

I'll see many your kids in therapy one day.

Unfortunately you are not looking closer at the data this year and last especially in light of the admission changes. It would reveal much larger gaps and performance decline. It's also funny you would omit the fact that prior to the changes, the overwhelming majority of students took the AlgII SOL and had even higher Pass Advanced Rates than that.

I mean, yes, when you build your admissions process around test taking ability, that results in better test scores at that school. That's also unsurprising.

But I can't blame you... I'd be obsessed with standardized tests too if my demographic were greatly advantaged by their use and I didn't care at all about the overall well-being of the institution in question.

Im happy to consider other reports on academic performance. But we are talking about basic SOLs... in subjects they would be learning about in TJ. I imagine the PSAT scores will also mirror these gaps and decline in academic achievement.

If tests can't be used, advanced classes taken can't be used, and now seemingly grades in the actual school can't be used. How do you evaluate the admissions changes besides saying things like "naturally gifted?"

I think many defend these results instead of just acknowledging that the new process selects kids they want rather than kids who perform the best. Thats Ok too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

Both of the links that have been posted have referred explicitly to test scores.

No one disputes the fact that Asian American students are exceptional test takers compared to any other demographic. Test taking ability (not intelligence - but specifically test taking ability) has tracked for decades in America with access to educational prestige, and Asian families have rightly prioritized it as a critical skill for as long as they've been here in America. And they've done so frequently at the expense of other things that are important to a child's development.

The rules are changing - not because there are too many Asians, but because testing has been observed to occlude selection processes ESPECIALLY when they are used as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Caltech - perhaps the single greatest STEM institution on the planet and the closest analog to TJ at the post-secondary level - stopped accepting exam submissions years ago and their data concluded that the students they were admitting were no less prepared than previous classes.

Stop being obsessed with test scores and maybe you'll get back to competing on the level that you used to.

Only racists dismiss asian americans as test takers.

Rest of the nation sees hardworking and patriotic Asian Americans making significant STEM contributions to the advancement of the entire mankind:

Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), Jen-Hsun Huang (NVIDIA), Jerry Yang (Yahoo!), Sanjay Mehrotra (Micron Technology), Lisa Su (AMD), Eric Yuan (Zoom), Min Zhu, (Cisco WebEx), Tony Xu (DoorDash), Albert Cheng (Amazon Studios), Bobby Murphy (SnapChat), Steve Chen (YouTube), and many more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

Both of the links that have been posted have referred explicitly to test scores.

No one disputes the fact that Asian American students are exceptional test takers compared to any other demographic. Test taking ability (not intelligence - but specifically test taking ability) has tracked for decades in America with access to educational prestige, and Asian families have rightly prioritized it as a critical skill for as long as they've been here in America. And they've done so frequently at the expense of other things that are important to a child's development.

The rules are changing - not because there are too many Asians, but because testing has been observed to occlude selection processes ESPECIALLY when they are used as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Caltech - perhaps the single greatest STEM institution on the planet and the closest analog to TJ at the post-secondary level - stopped accepting exam submissions years ago and their data concluded that the students they were admitting were no less prepared than previous classes.

Stop being obsessed with test scores and maybe you'll get back to competing on the level that you used to.

Only racists dismiss asian americans as test takers.

Rest of the nation sees hardworking and patriotic Asian Americans making significant STEM contributions to the advancement of the entire mankind:

Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), Jen-Hsun Huang (NVIDIA), Jerry Yang (Yahoo!), Sanjay Mehrotra (Micron Technology), Lisa Su (AMD), Eric Yuan (Zoom), Min Zhu, (Cisco WebEx), Tony Xu (DoorDash), Albert Cheng (Amazon Studios), Bobby Murphy (SnapChat), Steve Chen (YouTube), and many more

No one is dismissing anyone. It was a compliment - Asian families recognized that standardized exams were a path to educational prestige, and they applied an inordinate amount of emphasis to it with an eye toward optimizing educational outcomes.

But it doesn't work that way anymore. Adapt or perish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

Both of the links that have been posted have referred explicitly to test scores.

No one disputes the fact that Asian American students are exceptional test takers compared to any other demographic. Test taking ability (not intelligence - but specifically test taking ability) has tracked for decades in America with access to educational prestige, and Asian families have rightly prioritized it as a critical skill for as long as they've been here in America. And they've done so frequently at the expense of other things that are important to a child's development.

The rules are changing - not because there are too many Asians, but because testing has been observed to occlude selection processes ESPECIALLY when they are used as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Caltech - perhaps the single greatest STEM institution on the planet and the closest analog to TJ at the post-secondary level - stopped accepting exam submissions years ago and their data concluded that the students they were admitting were no less prepared than previous classes.

Stop being obsessed with test scores and maybe you'll get back to competing on the level that you used to.

Only racists dismiss asian americans as test takers.

Rest of the nation sees hardworking and patriotic Asian Americans making significant STEM contributions to the advancement of the entire mankind:

Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), Jen-Hsun Huang (NVIDIA), Jerry Yang (Yahoo!), Sanjay Mehrotra (Micron Technology), Lisa Su (AMD), Eric Yuan (Zoom), Min Zhu, (Cisco WebEx), Tony Xu (DoorDash), Albert Cheng (Amazon Studios), Bobby Murphy (SnapChat), Steve Chen (YouTube), and many more

These people are amazing but almost none work directly on STEM. They are C-staff at major corporations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

One does not have to be an expert in heritage and cultures, but a significant number of the student names appear to be of Asian American ethnicity.

You would expect that of a program whose sole criteria (in this instance) is performance on a standardized exam.

I love standardized tests because they're easy to game through prep, and we have the means to prioritize education. This also helps thin the competition by eliminating less affluent students. Of course, there are other ways to identify qualified applicants but they are less advantageous for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

The new students are more naturally gifted than the 3rd tier peppers who were getting in under the old system. They may be less prepared but seem to pick things up more quickly, so in the long run, they're actually doing much better.

Less prepared in math and science. That was expected! Farcical essay can't evaluate preparedness in necessary math and science.

I've watched over 10,000 kids graduate from TJ in my lifetime, and I can tell you that the way they approach TJ once they're inside the building matters a hell of a lot more than how "prepared" they were when they got admitted. I've seen Alg1 kids who struggled mightily for their first year or two and turned out to be superstars when they left, and I've seen kids who entered in Calc BC and beyond flame out because they couldn't handle actually being challenged academically for the first time in their lives.

Their grades in their curricular classes tell me everything I need to know about whether or not they're "prepared enough". Testing isn't helpful beyond that point. Give me 1000 words that lend me insight into your approach and how you've handled adversity and I'll tell you whether or not you'll be a success at TJ and whether or not you'll add value to the institution.

I have watched 10,000 + 1 kids enter TJ, and unprepared students who get admitted struggle a lot, and mostly drop out mostly during freshman. Other who reluctantly hang in there, struggle with grades and do not go past the bare minimum Calc AB, even with a ton of remedial help. Whereas prepared students, most of them who attend enrichment centers outside school and participate in an array of math and science competitions in middle school, have a wholesome experience at TJ taking advanced math and science classes, and participating in clubs, sports, and having fun.

DP. That's depressing. And if that is changed by the new admissions requirements, then lower SOL PA scores are fine.

- parent of an 8th grader who is considering TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS reputation appears to be dependent on recognizing and rewarding all hard working students, including Asian American students:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/264-fcps-students-named-2024-national-merit-semifinalists

Both of the links that have been posted have referred explicitly to test scores.

No one disputes the fact that Asian American students are exceptional test takers compared to any other demographic. Test taking ability (not intelligence - but specifically test taking ability) has tracked for decades in America with access to educational prestige, and Asian families have rightly prioritized it as a critical skill for as long as they've been here in America. And they've done so frequently at the expense of other things that are important to a child's development.

The rules are changing - not because there are too many Asians, but because testing has been observed to occlude selection processes ESPECIALLY when they are used as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Caltech - perhaps the single greatest STEM institution on the planet and the closest analog to TJ at the post-secondary level - stopped accepting exam submissions years ago and their data concluded that the students they were admitting were no less prepared than previous classes.

Stop being obsessed with test scores and maybe you'll get back to competing on the level that you used to.

Only racists dismiss asian americans as test takers.

Rest of the nation sees hardworking and patriotic Asian Americans making significant STEM contributions to the advancement of the entire mankind:

Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), Jen-Hsun Huang (NVIDIA), Jerry Yang (Yahoo!), Sanjay Mehrotra (Micron Technology), Lisa Su (AMD), Eric Yuan (Zoom), Min Zhu, (Cisco WebEx), Tony Xu (DoorDash), Albert Cheng (Amazon Studios), Bobby Murphy (SnapChat), Steve Chen (YouTube), and many more

These people are amazing but almost none work directly on STEM. They are C-staff at major corporations.

They not only have STEM degrees, were hands on in their STEM jobs out of college, and their leadership qualities helped them rise to c-level staff. Wikipedia is helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear the math teachers are very frustrated with the math preparations of incoming students. Discussing changes to grading policies.

Yeah the SOL scores really have taken a dramatic turn. Maybe skills-based grading could be an option?

The new students are more naturally gifted than the 3rd tier peppers who were getting in under the old system. They may be less prepared but seem to pick things up more quickly, so in the long run, they're actually doing much better.

Less prepared in math and science. That was expected! Farcical essay can't evaluate preparedness in necessary math and science.

I've watched over 10,000 kids graduate from TJ in my lifetime, and I can tell you that the way they approach TJ once they're inside the building matters a hell of a lot more than how "prepared" they were when they got admitted. I've seen Alg1 kids who struggled mightily for their first year or two and turned out to be superstars when they left, and I've seen kids who entered in Calc BC and beyond flame out because they couldn't handle actually being challenged academically for the first time in their lives.

Their grades in their curricular classes tell me everything I need to know about whether or not they're "prepared enough". Testing isn't helpful beyond that point. Give me 1000 words that lend me insight into your approach and how you've handled adversity and I'll tell you whether or not you'll be a success at TJ and whether or not you'll add value to the institution.

I have watched 10,000 + 1 kids enter TJ, and unprepared students who get admitted struggle a lot, and mostly drop out mostly during freshman. Other who reluctantly hang in there, struggle with grades and do not go past the bare minimum Calc AB, even with a ton of remedial help. Whereas prepared students, most of them who attend enrichment centers outside school and participate in an array of math and science competitions in middle school, have a wholesome experience at TJ taking advanced math and science classes, and participating in clubs, sports, and having fun.

DP. That's depressing. And if that is changed by the new admissions requirements, then lower SOL PA scores are fine.

- parent of an 8th grader who is considering TJ

How many identities will you assume?