BOE reconsidering the Virtual Academy, Leader in Me, and Innovative School Year Calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that there should be a public/free virtual education option in Maryland. If money were no object having MCPS pay for and run a virtual program for kids with a documented need for virtual makes sense. If we are in a money crunch it makes more sense to push Maryland to approve a virtual public like other states have done. It also likely makes more sense for now for MCPS to pay for individuals students who for documented reasons need a virtual option to enroll in a Maryland accredited virtual program just as MCPS pays for private school on a case by case basis for special needs students. Medically fragile students or students who live with medically fragile adults should have an option beside ISS or risking illness. Students who have severe social anxiety may also need this option, and I am sure there are more examples. But having some students need virtual does not mean MCPS has the money to run a virtual academy just as MCPS does not run schools to meet the needs of all special education students. MCPS must provide an appropriate education but financially that might mean paying for virtual seats at an accredited privately run virtual school. Looking briefly online k12, an online program some states use for virtual public, costs a bit less then 5,00.00 per year for k-5. And it looks like MCPS spends toughly 17,000 per student. So on rough math alone it would be cheaper to pay per student as needed for an already established virtual program then to run the program. (I am no expert but just thinking there must be a compromise somehow that deals with MCPS not being able to afford to run a virtual school while GIVING students who need virtual access to a virtual option.)

We don't have a state option so it's a moot point. Those of us who researched it before we got into the MVA were presented with really bad options, like Calvert with is homeschooling, and no live teaching or support. It's easy to do those programs in elementary school but not when you kids hit middle school or high school if you are not a teacher or skilled in the subjects. The only program I found equal that looked good was Stanford and we missed the deadline to apply. And, it's $30K a year.

You do realize that there is a good number of special ed/needs kids and medically fragile. So, it would cost the county far more to put them in appropriate specialized placements and there aren't enough of those programs to go around.

It's very frustrating when people pass judgment or make recommendations without fully understanding or knowing what's going on.

The issue with the funding is the MVA is a program, not a school. The homeschool gets full funding for the students and the MVA gets a different pot of money. What would make sense is to get the program accredited as a school and change the funding from the homeschool and provide it directly to the MVA and give the homeschools money if the children participate in activities (not all homeschools will allow participate, some do, and are great and inclusive and many are not).

MCPS wastes so much money on so many pet projects. There are so many better things to cut than the MVA.

And, if you are going to cut it, at least provide accurate information and break down the numbers with all the lower-performing schools as I cannot imagine that the MVA has the lowest numbers in the county, and if they do, its probably because of the huge range of kids.

The MVA has no true impact on anyone outside the MVA so I don't get the hate and why so many advocate to shut it down. Perhaps the other option is to shut down another school and use that to partially fund the MVA.

That’s a good point. Could someone knowledgeable here point me to the part of the MCPS budget where the system started saving millions due to it starting to use the MVA 3 years ago in lieu of the traditional methods it historically used to meet this need?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that there should be a public/free virtual education option in Maryland. If money were no object having MCPS pay for and run a virtual program for kids with a documented need for virtual makes sense. If we are in a money crunch it makes more sense to push Maryland to approve a virtual public like other states have done. It also likely makes more sense for now for MCPS to pay for individuals students who for documented reasons need a virtual option to enroll in a Maryland accredited virtual program just as MCPS pays for private school on a case by case basis for special needs students. Medically fragile students or students who live with medically fragile adults should have an option beside ISS or risking illness. Students who have severe social anxiety may also need this option, and I am sure there are more examples. But having some students need virtual does not mean MCPS has the money to run a virtual academy just as MCPS does not run schools to meet the needs of all special education students. MCPS must provide an appropriate education but financially that might mean paying for virtual seats at an accredited privately run virtual school. Looking briefly online k12, an online program some states use for virtual public, costs a bit less then 5,00.00 per year for k-5. And it looks like MCPS spends toughly 17,000 per student. So on rough math alone it would be cheaper to pay per student as needed for an already established virtual program then to run the program. (I am no expert but just thinking there must be a compromise somehow that deals with MCPS not being able to afford to run a virtual school while GIVING students who need virtual access to a virtual option.)

We don't have a state option so it's a moot point. Those of us who researched it before we got into the MVA were presented with really bad options, like Calvert with is homeschooling, and no live teaching or support. It's easy to do those programs in elementary school but not when you kids hit middle school or high school if you are not a teacher or skilled in the subjects. The only program I found equal that looked good was Stanford and we missed the deadline to apply. And, it's $30K a year.

You do realize that there is a good number of special ed/needs kids and medically fragile. So, it would cost the county far more to put them in appropriate specialized placements and there aren't enough of those programs to go around.

It's very frustrating when people pass judgment or make recommendations without fully understanding or knowing what's going on.

The issue with the funding is the MVA is a program, not a school. The homeschool gets full funding for the students and the MVA gets a different pot of money. What would make sense is to get the program accredited as a school and change the funding from the homeschool and provide it directly to the MVA and give the homeschools money if the children participate in activities (not all homeschools will allow participate, some do, and are great and inclusive and many are not).

MCPS wastes so much money on so many pet projects. There are so many better things to cut than the MVA.

And, if you are going to cut it, at least provide accurate information and break down the numbers with all the lower-performing schools as I cannot imagine that the MVA has the lowest numbers in the county, and if they do, its probably because of the huge range of kids.

The MVA has no true impact on anyone outside the MVA so I don't get the hate and why so many advocate to shut it down. Perhaps the other option is to shut down another school and use that to partially fund the MVA.

That’s a good point. Could someone knowledgeable here point me to the part of the MCPS budget where the system started saving millions due to it starting to use the MVA 3 years ago in lieu of the traditional methods it historically used to meet this need?

As if MCPS did that work. They just kept funding the home schools because it rains money in MCPS. It’s never about doing what’s most effective or cost efficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that there should be a public/free virtual education option in Maryland. If money were no object having MCPS pay for and run a virtual program for kids with a documented need for virtual makes sense. If we are in a money crunch it makes more sense to push Maryland to approve a virtual public like other states have done. It also likely makes more sense for now for MCPS to pay for individuals students who for documented reasons need a virtual option to enroll in a Maryland accredited virtual program just as MCPS pays for private school on a case by case basis for special needs students. Medically fragile students or students who live with medically fragile adults should have an option beside ISS or risking illness. Students who have severe social anxiety may also need this option, and I am sure there are more examples. But having some students need virtual does not mean MCPS has the money to run a virtual academy just as MCPS does not run schools to meet the needs of all special education students. MCPS must provide an appropriate education but financially that might mean paying for virtual seats at an accredited privately run virtual school. Looking briefly online k12, an online program some states use for virtual public, costs a bit less then 5,00.00 per year for k-5. And it looks like MCPS spends toughly 17,000 per student. So on rough math alone it would be cheaper to pay per student as needed for an already established virtual program then to run the program. (I am no expert but just thinking there must be a compromise somehow that deals with MCPS not being able to afford to run a virtual school while GIVING students who need virtual access to a virtual option.)

We don't have a state option so it's a moot point. Those of us who researched it before we got into the MVA were presented with really bad options, like Calvert with is homeschooling, and no live teaching or support. It's easy to do those programs in elementary school but not when you kids hit middle school or high school if you are not a teacher or skilled in the subjects. The only program I found equal that looked good was Stanford and we missed the deadline to apply. And, it's $30K a year.

You do realize that there is a good number of special ed/needs kids and medically fragile. So, it would cost the county far more to put them in appropriate specialized placements and there aren't enough of those programs to go around.

It's very frustrating when people pass judgment or make recommendations without fully understanding or knowing what's going on.

The issue with the funding is the MVA is a program, not a school. The homeschool gets full funding for the students and the MVA gets a different pot of money. What would make sense is to get the program accredited as a school and change the funding from the homeschool and provide it directly to the MVA and give the homeschools money if the children participate in activities (not all homeschools will allow participate, some do, and are great and inclusive and many are not).

MCPS wastes so much money on so many pet projects. There are so many better things to cut than the MVA.

And, if you are going to cut it, at least provide accurate information and break down the numbers with all the lower-performing schools as I cannot imagine that the MVA has the lowest numbers in the county, and if they do, its probably because of the huge range of kids.

The MVA has no true impact on anyone outside the MVA so I don't get the hate and why so many advocate to shut it down. Perhaps the other option is to shut down another school and use that to partially fund the MVA.

That’s a good point. Could someone knowledgeable here point me to the part of the MCPS budget where the system started saving millions due to it starting to use the MVA 3 years ago in lieu of the traditional methods it historically used to meet this need?

The nice thing about the MVA is we have a huge range of students with a huge range of needs and it's a very welcoming and inclusive environment. Some of those families had very bad experiences in person due to the high needs of their children who were not cared for in a way the parents wanted them cared for. This is the best of both worlds where parents can get support with the kid's education and be able to physically meet the needs of their kids.

The simple solution is to take this program and make it into its school. The state allows for accreditation for virtual schools and several other counties are schools, not programs.

The MVA is such a small part of the MCPS budget it makes no sense to cut it vs. doing reductions in other areas. The impact of cutting it for many of the students will be devastating. Some will be fine going back in person, but many will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that there should be a public/free virtual education option in Maryland. If money were no object having MCPS pay for and run a virtual program for kids with a documented need for virtual makes sense. If we are in a money crunch it makes more sense to push Maryland to approve a virtual public like other states have done. It also likely makes more sense for now for MCPS to pay for individuals students who for documented reasons need a virtual option to enroll in a Maryland accredited virtual program just as MCPS pays for private school on a case by case basis for special needs students. Medically fragile students or students who live with medically fragile adults should have an option beside ISS or risking illness. Students who have severe social anxiety may also need this option, and I am sure there are more examples. But having some students need virtual does not mean MCPS has the money to run a virtual academy just as MCPS does not run schools to meet the needs of all special education students. MCPS must provide an appropriate education but financially that might mean paying for virtual seats at an accredited privately run virtual school. Looking briefly online k12, an online program some states use for virtual public, costs a bit less then 5,00.00 per year for k-5. And it looks like MCPS spends toughly 17,000 per student. So on rough math alone it would be cheaper to pay per student as needed for an already established virtual program then to run the program. (I am no expert but just thinking there must be a compromise somehow that deals with MCPS not being able to afford to run a virtual school while GIVING students who need virtual access to a virtual option.)

We don't have a state option so it's a moot point. Those of us who researched it before we got into the MVA were presented with really bad options, like Calvert with is homeschooling, and no live teaching or support. It's easy to do those programs in elementary school but not when you kids hit middle school or high school if you are not a teacher or skilled in the subjects. The only program I found equal that looked good was Stanford and we missed the deadline to apply. And, it's $30K a year.

You do realize that there is a good number of special ed/needs kids and medically fragile. So, it would cost the county far more to put them in appropriate specialized placements and there aren't enough of those programs to go around.

It's very frustrating when people pass judgment or make recommendations without fully understanding or knowing what's going on.

The issue with the funding is the MVA is a program, not a school. The homeschool gets full funding for the students and the MVA gets a different pot of money. What would make sense is to get the program accredited as a school and change the funding from the homeschool and provide it directly to the MVA and give the homeschools money if the children participate in activities (not all homeschools will allow participate, some do, and are great and inclusive and many are not).

MCPS wastes so much money on so many pet projects. There are so many better things to cut than the MVA.

And, if you are going to cut it, at least provide accurate information and break down the numbers with all the lower-performing schools as I cannot imagine that the MVA has the lowest numbers in the county, and if they do, its probably because of the huge range of kids.

The MVA has no true impact on anyone outside the MVA so I don't get the hate and why so many advocate to shut it down. Perhaps the other option is to shut down another school and use that to partially fund the MVA.

That’s a good point. Could someone knowledgeable here point me to the part of the MCPS budget where the system started saving millions due to it starting to use the MVA 3 years ago in lieu of the traditional methods it historically used to meet this need?

As if MCPS did that work. They just kept funding the home schools because it rains money in MCPS. It’s never about doing what’s most effective or cost-efficient.

The idea of a program was to allow students to participate in activities, clubs, sports, graduation, and things like outdoor ed via the home school as well as the home school providing the testing. The idea would be great, but it only works if the homeschools are inclusive, and some are fantastic and go above and beyond to include virtual students but many are not providing any of those things so it's not justifiable to give them the full amount when they are not providing education, services or supports to the students.

So, if you did a state option for example, if it was an accredited school, those funds would go to that school vs. the homeschool and MCPS would be losing out on those student dollars as they would be going to the state. So, it's best to keep the money in MCPS (if they'd start to use it responsibly) and make the program a school, and fund the MVA as a traditional school.

Please hear from the students, families, and staff on their petition on change.org. And, as your good deed for the day, a signature or two would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Great post. I wonder how many kids are in similar positions. Would be it be cheaper for MCPS to pay for a private VA for them or for MCPS to have its own?

My guess is neither. It’s probably most cost effective for MCPS to go back to whatever it was doing for decades before they started the virtual academy experiment a few years ago.

That might not have been the right thing to do. This is a small number of kids to be sure but if they cannot be in a classroom for medical reasons, MCPS still has to give them an education.

There are student who opted for virtual academy so that they can skip out in-person class. These are not kids who are medically fragile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Great post. I wonder how many kids are in similar positions. Would be it be cheaper for MCPS to pay for a private VA for them or for MCPS to have its own?

My guess is neither. It’s probably most cost effective for MCPS to go back to whatever it was doing for decades before they started the virtual academy experiment a few years ago.

That might not have been the right thing to do. This is a small number of kids to be sure but if they cannot be in a classroom for medical reasons, MCPS still has to give them an education.

There are student who opted for virtual academy so that they can skip out in-person class. These are not kids who are medically fragile.

If a kid wats to skip school, they will. Plenty of kids skip in person or don't follow the rules on closed campuses and leave without permission. That has nothing to do with the virtual academy and regardless of the school situation that is a parenting issue.

[Anonymous]

Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

Except that data is not accurate because it is from the first year of the program and classes were done very differently. Why aren’t they releasing data from last year or this year. Why aren’t they breaking down the numbers to compare it with every school as that is not a true comparison.

As for #3, that is one of the reasons why many families are returning in person and many tried and tried to work with their home schools and they were not responsive.

As for #2, who decides if it is necessary. If a child prefers it, they should have their choice. Your kids get to choose, so why shouldn’t they. Look at the petition and hear some of the kids talk about being bullied. Mcps refuses to handle any behavioral issues in the schools, so why do you feel you know what’s best for them and bullying can cause life long trauma.

The sensible thing is to make it a school, not a program which would fund it like a regular school and/increase funding for more staff for reading and other specialists to help with the low scores or go back to offering the tutoring programs to families.

In terms of attendance, they need to breakdown why kids are absent. I know several kids who have long or multiple hospitalizations and they long in when they can. Also, I know sometimes my kid was marked absent when they were there and the teacher refused to fix it even though we could prove they were there via screen shot and photos. The attendance secretary deferred to the teacher.

Mcps wastes so much money. There are so many other good ways to cut the budget without directly hurting a group of kids. This is such a small amount in the budget.

And, some of these kids will need special placements. Are they even available for next year and consider that cost.

Or, would you prefer unqualified parents to homeschool instead?

The BOA is trying to take away attention off the more pressing issues by throwing two programs under the bus. Instead they should be focusing on cleaning house and making things safe as well as addressing the other concerns.

These are not your kids. If virtual did not work in your home, that’s ok. But don’t take it away from others who need or want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

Couldn’t they bring Clorox wipes for the desk? If this was an issue before Covid, what did your kids do then?

We all don’t have your privilege. Enjoy it.

It's a valid question. You seem to be in VA for more than just Covid, but virtual was not an option in MCPS before the Covid-19 pandemic. Were you homeschooling? Or were you just accepting the risks and sending your kids in person?

As someone else noted, other places in the country have had a virtual option for a while. If virtual is that important to you, I'm wondering why you stayed in MCPS to begin with.

There have been the same discussions over and over again with the bullies demanding answers to silly questions and no matter what you say it’s not good enough. Why are you so invested in shutting the school down?

And not everything is simply about Covid. Time for you to move on. Maybe if you spent half as much time helping your kids as you do posting on social media your kids would have been more successful in school.

I don’t think it’s silly to ask what the families for whom going into a school is a life or death decision did before MCPS created the virtual academy a few years ago. It would help inform the discussion since proponents of the VA seem to be arguing that the choice is continuing to find the VA or depriving their kids of an education.

With the caveat that I'm talking about one specific kid, a relative of mine who is not my own child, I'll tell you what their parents did. Since their condition is pretty rare, I'm going to be somewhat vague while trying to answer your question. My nibling had a major organ transplant as an early elementary schooler. While awaiting the transplant, they received some limited at-home services supplemented by parent teaching. After the transplant, they were still extremely vulnerable. Terrifyingly so, but their parents also wanted them to have as close to a normal childhood as possible, particularly because there was a chance they could end up needing another organ down the road.

Basically, a bad thing could happen no matter how careful the parents were, so it was more worth it to make sure my nibling felt like a normal kid than to make sure they were 100% safe.

The schools were, as far as I could tell, great. In the rest of elementary school, my nibling would be paired with a teacher willing to use upgraded disinfecting in the classroom, and their parents would send a stock email to all of the other parents in the class describing the situation and asking for enhanced attention to sending their kids in with "just a cold." The parents also made masks available (this was pre-covid, so it was unusual but no one felt their rights were being violated.)

Middle school was harder, particularly because covid happened in this period, but my nibling returned to school in fall 2021, so just a touch after the rest of their grade.

My nibling is in HS now, and still going to school in person. My sibling is greatful that their kid is generally compliant with the drug protocol and takes care of their own health, as a lot of transplant kids spin out around this age because they are so frustrated at the limitations.

End of the day, it's not perfect, but it works becuase my sibling was willing to take a chance on the adults and the kids in their community being fundamentally okay people who wanted to do the right thing.

Great post. I wonder how many kids are in similar positions. Would be it be cheaper for MCPS to pay for a private VA for them or for MCPS to have its own?

My guess is neither. It’s probably most cost effective for MCPS to go back to whatever it was doing for decades before they started the virtual academy experiment a few years ago.

That might not have been the right thing to do. This is a small number of kids to be sure but if they cannot be in a classroom for medical reasons, MCPS still has to give them an education.

There are student who opted for virtual academy so that they can skip out in-person class. These are not kids who are medically fragile.

If a kid wats to skip school, they will. Plenty of kids skip in person or don't follow the rules on closed campuses and leave without permission. That has nothing to do with the virtual academy and regardless of the school situation that is a parenting issue.

It’s far easier for my kids to skip school in person as they can walk off campus and security and the principal don’t care and they’ve said this publicly. In virtual as a parent I can enforce attendance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

If they keep it, families should agree to unscheduled home visits to ensure that kids aren't being abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

If they keep it, families should agree to unscheduled home visits to ensure that kids aren't being abused.

Then, they should do that for all mcps students. Being in virtual has nothing to do with abuse. Why don’t we start with your home first since you think it’s a great idea? Or, mcps could increase funding to the MVA to pay for your brilliant idea as whose doing that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

If they keep it, families should agree to unscheduled home visits to ensure that kids aren't being abused.

Then, they should do that for all mcps students. Being in virtual has nothing to do with abuse. Why don’t we start with your home first since you think it’s a great idea? Or, mcps could increase funding to the MVA to pay for your brilliant idea as whose doing that?

Of course there's a higher risk of abuse when parents have locked their kids at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

I would say eliminate for K-5 unless an IEP or 504 requirement justifies.

For 6-12 I would let it be an option for families to choose with funding split 70/30 between the academy and students home school. Home schools would be REQUIRED to allow MVA students to participate in activities and testing. If attendance requirements are not met (medical condition excluded and that would have already been documented) students would be returned to in person school.

Create options for classes of interest that can be taken cross campus.

[Anonymous]

Virtual should be here to stay no matter what. I've lived in plenty of areas due to my job (military) and in every district...virtual exists. Parents don't debate its existence on forums. It just is. Everyone goes on about their daily lives. It should be an option because we are currently in the year 2024 and not 1998. Time for MCPS to keep up not only with the times but with the rest of society. This place is seriously strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the conversation, and the data, I think a fair and reasonable solution would be:

1) Eliminate MVA for K-5, as it is not working

2) Keep MVA for 6-12, but only for kids for whom it is necessary. Essentially, require a 504 or IEP the way you would any other accommodation that fits under FAPE.

3) Reconfirm with home schools their obligation to include MVA students in extracurriculars, and make sure MVA parents know who to call if that doesn't happen.

I would say eliminate for K-5 unless an IEP or 504 requirement justifies.

For 6-12 I would let it be an option for families to choose with funding split 70/30 between the academy and students home school. Home schools would be REQUIRED to allow MVA students to participate in activities and testing. If attendance requirements are not met (medical condition excluded and that would have already been documented) students would be returned to in person school.

Create options for classes of interest that can be taken cross campus.

The funding split would be good but 75-25 only if schools allow participation. Many don’t allow it. None of the schools we dealt with allowed any participation including graduation so they should not get any money.

The lower school and its staff are very good. The principal is one of the best in mcps. You don’t realize that year they were not given enough staff. They did the best they could and with the lower numbers they could do all live teaching.

Why don’t we look at what are the three lowest performing schools for es, Md and hs and close those. That would be a bigger cost savings. Or, the ones with the most problems or violence.

Why would you want to hurt kids by taking away their schools? Did you look at the petition to hear from the kids? You want to send back kids who were bullied to get bullied more? Are you planning to offer them mental health services when they have serious issues during to the bullying? Or, making schools safer so they feel they can return? Opening bathrooms? Better supports and special ed programs? More therapies? How are you proposing to do all this?

Virtual Academy is far better academically for us than in person but we got unlucky with a series of bad teachers.