Computer science @UVA, W&M or JMU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:strange to be leaning towards the weakest of the options. Tech is the undisputed star for CS in VA but that's not one of your options so the next best would be UVA.

Undisputed star. Funny. It is not.

Well I know someone at Tech right now on this major who looked into transferring to UVA and after a lot of research he decided it was not a better program, though probably easier.

It’s my understanding that they are very closely ranked.

I know a student currently in Vatech senior year, frustrated with the quality of choices available for jobs. Sure, many kids will go to big name, but you should evaluate based on options available to avg student.

Well the kid I know has a FAANG internship this summer so hmm I guess you’re right that others may not be so fortunate.
Regardless, Tech is not being considered here so UVA it is as far as I can see out of these options.

Unfortunately, most of the attention is grabbed by top students and their achievements. My opinion is to evaluate based on avg student opportunities/achievement. Many TJ parents become unintended victim of this phenomenon. 10% kid from there do phenomenally well, but avg kid does poorly in college options if they had stayed at base school. Going off track, but just giving an example of evaluating based on the performance of star kids.

DP. So are you saying that non-superstars would do better as smaller schools?

No, I am not saying that. Go by opportunities available to avg student. That is like 50-60% of student body. Based on my research living near a big job hub increases the opportunities available to avg students. UVA is a great university and so close to DC and New York. UVA is a well known full university and attracts technology as well as non technology companies. Forget about FANG and big names, the opportunities available beside that are immense.

Do you know that GMU CS has a good recruitment scene for a decent student? U know the reason?? Because it is right in Nova. Recruiter doesn't have to travel to meet a candidate. And if a person is half decent, they will take him/her.

Do you know that Google and Apple has disproportionate number of employees from subpar California colleges? The reason is simple, they are closeby and for most of the CS jobs you need an avg IQ person.

So true! Based on personal observation, there's a disproportionately large number of employees and interns at Apple HQ from San Jose State U and Santa Clara U, in common is that they're both a couple of bus stops from Apple campus. Both also less than 20mins by car from Google. Though at this point I wouldn't call them 'subpar' (maybe by DCUM standards they may seem so). Point is location can make a huge difference on outcomes for the avg student body for a well placed school.

[Anonymous]

Parents please keep fighting over UVA and Tech for CS. It will leave room for DS to study CS at W&M in 2023.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

US News rankings for undergrad computer science. (Behind paywall)

Rankings:
1. MIT
2. CMU, Stanford, Berkeley
5. Caltech, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Princeton, UIUC, U Wash.
11. Austin
12. Michigan
13. Columbia, Harvard, UCLA
16. UC San Diego, UMD, U Penn, Wisconsin
20. Harvey Mudd, Hopkins, Purdue, Rice, Yale
25. Brown, Duke, Northwestern, UC Irvine, U Chicago, USC
31. UC Boulder, U Mass Amherst, UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

US News rankings for undergrad computer science. (Behind paywall)

Rankings:
1. MIT
2. CMU, Stanford, Berkeley
5. Caltech, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Princeton, UIUC, U Wash.
11. Austin
12. Michigan
13. Columbia, Harvard, UCLA
16. UC San Diego, UMD, U Penn, Wisconsin
20. Harvey Mudd, Hopkins, Purdue, Rice, Yale
25. Brown, Duke, Northwestern, UC Irvine, U Chicago, USC
31. UC Boulder, U Mass Amherst, UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech

There is no outcome data whatsoever behind the USNWR CS ranking. It is just a reputation survey. This rating has placement inputs. http://www.ivyachievement.com/computer-science-rankings/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

US News rankings for undergrad computer science. (Behind paywall)

Rankings:
1. MIT
2. CMU, Stanford, Berkeley
5. Caltech, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Princeton, UIUC, U Wash.
11. Austin
12. Michigan
13. Columbia, Harvard, UCLA
16. UC San Diego, UMD, U Penn, Wisconsin
20. Harvey Mudd, Hopkins, Purdue, Rice, Yale
25. Brown, Duke, Northwestern, UC Irvine, U Chicago, USC
31. UC Boulder, U Mass Amherst, UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech

There is no outcome data whatsoever behind the USNWR CS ranking. It is just a reputation survey. This rating has placement inputs. http://www.ivyachievement.com/computer-science-rankings/

It's a noble undertaking but really no more useful than USNWR. It covers a narrow and arbitrary set of companies and doesn't take into account geographical variations in salary associated with COL, students who go on to graduate school, students who take jobs in something other than computer science, students who start their own gig because they have an idea or don't want to be salary slaves. It also uses Payscale as the source of salary data, so not a good sample.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

US News rankings for undergrad computer science. (Behind paywall)

Rankings:
1. MIT
2. CMU, Stanford, Berkeley
5. Caltech, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Princeton, UIUC, U Wash.
11. Austin
12. Michigan
13. Columbia, Harvard, UCLA
16. UC San Diego, UMD, U Penn, Wisconsin
20. Harvey Mudd, Hopkins, Purdue, Rice, Yale
25. Brown, Duke, Northwestern, UC Irvine, U Chicago, USC
31. UC Boulder, U Mass Amherst, UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech

There is no outcome data whatsoever behind the USNWR CS ranking. It is just a reputation survey. This rating has placement inputs. http://www.ivyachievement.com/computer-science-rankings/

It's a noble undertaking but really no more useful than USNWR. It covers a narrow and arbitrary set of companies and doesn't take into account geographical variations in salary associated with COL, students who go on to graduate school, students who take jobs in something other than computer science, students who start their own gig because they have an idea or don't want to be salary slaves. It also uses Payscale as the source of salary data, so not a good sample.

It shows that some schools that may be highly ranked in USNWR, like Illinois, may not have placements that correspond to that ranking. I don't think the set of companies is arbitrary, they are the most in demand, but I agree it tends to favor California schools and Washington. DC area grads are often more likely to go off and work for other sets of companies.

I would say using actual placement data, if available, is better than simply relying on a ranking.

[Anonymous]

I went to JMU grad last nineties...don't know if it was the timing, but most everyone I know who was a CS major is either making bank now, consulting, or sold a company for millions and living large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA. Highest ranked CS program in VA (same as Tech). There are discussion threads here where people are considering going to UVA over Michigan for CS..

Where are you seeing the CS programs ranked? What are the ranks for each?

US News rankings for undergrad computer science. (Behind paywall)

Rankings:
1. MIT
2. CMU, Stanford, Berkeley
5. Caltech, Cornell, Georgia Tech, Princeton, UIUC, U Wash.
11. Austin
12. Michigan
13. Columbia, Harvard, UCLA
16. UC San Diego, UMD, U Penn, Wisconsin
20. Harvey Mudd, Hopkins, Purdue, Rice, Yale
25. Brown, Duke, Northwestern, UC Irvine, U Chicago, USC
31. UC Boulder, U Mass Amherst, UNC, UVA, Virginia Tech

There is no outcome data whatsoever behind the USNWR CS ranking. It is just a reputation survey. This rating has placement inputs. http://www.ivyachievement.com/computer-science-rankings/

It's a noble undertaking but really no more useful than USNWR. It covers a narrow and arbitrary set of companies and doesn't take into account geographical variations in salary associated with COL, students who go on to graduate school, students who take jobs in something other than computer science, students who start their own gig because they have an idea or don't want to be salary slaves. It also uses Payscale as the source of salary data, so not a good sample.

It shows that some schools that may be highly ranked in USNWR, like Illinois, may not have placements that correspond to that ranking. I don't think the set of companies is arbitrary, they are the most in demand, but I agree it tends to favor California schools and Washington. DC area grads are often more likely to go off and work for other sets of companies.

I would say using actual placement data, if available, is better than simply relying on a ranking.

I'm the PP that posted the USNWR rankings.. I understand the criticisms but unless you can provide a ranking that meets all the criteria you list, these are the best. The ivyachievement rankings, while a good model, is outdated by at least 3 years and their final ranking does have a lot of overlap with the USNWR rankings. There are also other rankings that one could google and find intersecting schools. Suffice it to say that to get into the top 15 schools in the USWNR ranking (and a few below that) are in pretty much every other ranking. Of course, one can choose to ignore them because they "didn't get salary info. by interviewing the hiring manager" or "don't factor in COLA", etc. and apply to "Rosemary liberal arts college" in timbuktoo because "all CS programs are the same".

[Anonymous]

I'm going to vote for JMU. UVA is an R1 research university and W&M is an R2 research university. Both have many faculty that are focused on RESEARCH. The people who get to interact with those professors are graduate students. JMU is a teaching university - there are more opportunities to interact with faculty, faculty care about teaching as number 1 priority, and there are more opportunities to do undergraduate research.

Yes, CS is a rapidly changing field, but you can look at the core classes offered for the undergraduate majors and see that they're all similar. It's not like the JMU undergrads are being left behind because the professors aren't doing cutting edge research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is weighing these three options for computer science. I love JMU, but I think he'd have more job prospects coming out of one of the other two schools. Help me give him some pros/cons or factors to consider to make an informed decision. Thanks!

Look at the coursework for all schools carefully. Ie make sure DS understands what classes might have to take. Mine went to an engineering school that required B's in language courses, he stunk at languages. He was not interested in taking two semesters of for example Spanish. The school did not let AP or and one opt out. Just an example.

Make sure DS is accepted directly into the program not to matriculate after X number of class credits and gpa requirements. This is super important.

Make sure there is another major they would like that they can transfer to if their GPA is below 3.0 after one or two semesters. I know this won't happen check it anyway to be safe.

Any choice is fine for jobs it's getting through that is harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to vote for JMU. UVA is an R1 research university and W&M is an R2 research university. Both have many faculty that are focused on RESEARCH. The people who get to interact with those professors are graduate students. JMU is a teaching university - there are more opportunities to interact with faculty, faculty care about teaching as number 1 priority, and there are more opportunities to do undergraduate research.

Yes, CS is a rapidly changing field, but you can look at the core classes offered for the undergraduate majors and see that they're all similar. It's not like the JMU undergrads are being left behind because the professors aren't doing cutting edge research.

I disagree. W&M is ranked 4th for best undergraduate teaching nationally, tied with Princeton. UVA is ranked 44th. JMU is ranked 4th in Southern regional schools.
We know one W&M sophomore--not a Monroe or 1693 scholar-- and they're doing really exciting research on a cutting-edge bio topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to vote for JMU. UVA is an R1 research university and W&M is an R2 research university. Both have many faculty that are focused on RESEARCH. The people who get to interact with those professors are graduate students. JMU is a teaching university - there are more opportunities to interact with faculty, faculty care about teaching as number 1 priority, and there are more opportunities to do undergraduate research.

Yes, CS is a rapidly changing field, but you can look at the core classes offered for the undergraduate majors and see that they're all similar. It's not like the JMU undergrads are being left behind because the professors aren't doing cutting edge research.

I disagree. W&M is ranked 4th for best undergraduate teaching nationally, tied with Princeton. UVA is ranked 44th. JMU is ranked 4th in Southern regional schools.
We know one W&M sophomore--not a Monroe or 1693 scholar-- and they're doing really exciting research on a cutting-edge bio topic.

We saw that too and were going to apply for CS. However, the salary outcomes for W&M were not as good as UVA or even Virginia Tech (which has lower salary outcomes). That seems to be a disconnect I couldn't understand. If their teaching is so great and the entering cohort has similar stats to the corresponding UVA cohort, shouldn't earnings outcome be the same? One case say that the same companies don't go to hire at W&M.. Why not? It's only about 2 hours away and if there is really a great demand for CS as they claim, why wouldn't employers go to W&M and hire the W&M kids who went a school that teaches about as good as Princeton? In the end, we decided not to apply to W&M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to vote for JMU. UVA is an R1 research university and W&M is an R2 research university. Both have many faculty that are focused on RESEARCH. The people who get to interact with those professors are graduate students. JMU is a teaching university - there are more opportunities to interact with faculty, faculty care about teaching as number 1 priority, and there are more opportunities to do undergraduate research.

Yes, CS is a rapidly changing field, but you can look at the core classes offered for the undergraduate majors and see that they're all similar. It's not like the JMU undergrads are being left behind because the professors aren't doing cutting edge research.

I disagree. W&M is ranked 4th for best undergraduate teaching nationally, tied with Princeton. UVA is ranked 44th. JMU is ranked 4th in Southern regional schools.
We know one W&M sophomore--not a Monroe or 1693 scholar-- and they're doing really exciting research on a cutting-edge bio topic.

UVA is ranked 44th in undergraduate teaching? I thought UVA's claim to fame was a great undergraduate education (rather than research prominence like Berkeley, etc.), how does being ranked 44 in undergraduate teaching make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to vote for JMU. UVA is an R1 research university and W&M is an R2 research university. Both have many faculty that are focused on RESEARCH. The people who get to interact with those professors are graduate students. JMU is a teaching university - there are more opportunities to interact with faculty, faculty care about teaching as number 1 priority, and there are more opportunities to do undergraduate research.

Yes, CS is a rapidly changing field, but you can look at the core classes offered for the undergraduate majors and see that they're all similar. It's not like the JMU undergrads are being left behind because the professors aren't doing cutting edge research.

I disagree. W&M is ranked 4th for best undergraduate teaching nationally, tied with Princeton. UVA is ranked 44th. JMU is ranked 4th in Southern regional schools.
We know one W&M sophomore--not a Monroe or 1693 scholar-- and they're doing really exciting research on a cutting-edge bio topic.

UVA is ranked 44th in undergraduate teaching? I thought UVA's claim to fame was a great undergraduate education (rather than research prominence like Berkeley, etc.), how does being ranked 44 in undergraduate teaching make sense?

Looking at those rankings,UMBC is rated higher than Harvard and Yale. Phew, that should really save alot of DCUMers some serious cash and stress!