Annadale schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not making any semantic arguments. I am engaging in thoughtful, rigorous analysis of the data, and defining what I mean by "much higher". You may disagree, but it would be nice if you could do so with civility.

With all due respect, and irrespective of how rigorous you believe your analysis of the data to be, your definition of "much higher" is preposterous. It appears that you are just trying to advance some undisclosed agenda.

[Anonymous]

With all due respect, you appear to have some weird personality disorder that manifests itself through fixations and paranoia. You might want to talk to someone about that.

I have no 'agenda' except to provide information that others can use to make decisions. Would you care to be more explicit about exactly what nefarious motive you're accusing me of?

In fact, my child will probably attend Belvedere next year. I sliced and diced lots of numbers about various schools over the last year because I'm concerned about the quality of the schools that my children will attend, and debated moving to a different school area, but for now we've decided to at least try Belvedere ( although we'll choose the magnet program at Bailey's if we're lucky in the school lottery, mostly because I concluded after slicing and dicing their data that they are doing a really good job with kids from all demographic categories ). I happen to know more about Belvedere than any of the other schools mentioned, and there was some incorrect information and omissions in earlier posts, so I chimed in with what I know and can be objective about. I've visited the school and I've talked to parents who have kids at the school. I've heard a few 'raves' and a few less-than-enthusiastic responses, but not enough to know for sure what our child's experience will be.

Finally, I'll point out that my post was in response to two posts: poster 3/5 13:12 initially mentioned Belvedere as an Annandale-area school and mistakenly listed their FRL percentage as 48%, even though it's really 52%. 20:45 then pointed out that two of the schools in that post were GT Centers which likely skewed their FRL ratios, but neglected to mention that Belvedere had a GT Center. I corrected that poster's omission by pointing out that Belvedere also houses a GT center which affects its numbers, too, and used the adjective 'much', which you've fixated on. And, by the way, another reason that the reported Belvedere numbers may be skewed is because there are 32 children enrolled in preschool special-ed classes at Belvedere that take out-of-boundary kids who also have demographics different than the in-boundary school population, something that I did not mention in earlier posts.

In fact, my estimates on 3/7 at 08:14 were likely underestimates because I did them too quickly for the sake of posting. Looking at the demographics reported with the DRA data for recent years for 1st and 2nd grade, which are unaffected by the GT center, last year's 1st grade was 60% FRL, 2nd grade was 67.5%, and last year's "in boundary" 3rd grade class was probably about 59% FRL, which would take the in-boundary, non-GT average closer to 63% FRL (weighted for class size, and assuming the other grades have similar demographics) . This is more consistent with what I observe at the school and with what I know about the boundaries.

I believe my use of the term "much" to be perfectly reasonable, (since an increase from the 13:12 poster's reported aggregate percentage of FRL kids of 48% to one closer to what I initially though was about 58% but which now seems more likely to be more like 63% seems like "much" to me and most reasonable people, I suspect), but with the data that I've provided the readers of this thread can draw their own conclusions.

Regardless, the bottom line is that 13:12 said that the FRL percentage was 48%. The actual reported percentage is 52%. The data indicate that the in-boundary population is most likely to be between 58% and 63% FRL, which is definitely 'much' higher than the initially reported 48%.

Oh, and in an attempt to keep this relevant to the OP, a new elementary school in the area, to be called "Lacey Elementary" is being built and is scheduled to open in 2011. The boundaries for Lacey will probably mostly draw kids from Belvedere (which is slightly overcrowded and had 3 or 4 trailers last time I counted) and Beech Tree (which is very overcrowded) and will affect the demographics of both of those schools in an as-yet-unknown way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, and in an attempt to keep this relevant to the OP, a new elementary school in the area, to be called "Lacey Elementary" is being built and is scheduled to open in 2011. The boundaries for Lacey will probably mostly draw kids from Belvedere (which is slightly overcrowded and had 3 or 4 trailers last time I counted) and Beech Tree (which is very overcrowded) and will affect the demographics of both of those schools in an as-yet-unknown way.

And will also likely affect the demographics of several other elementary schools, perhaps as many as 9 schools:

http://www.annandalehsptsa.org/information_links/boundaryStudy.htm

This study, which should start in the next two months, will be very long and complicated due to the fact that it will affect all three levels of schools, and will also look at issues such as split-feeders, attendance islands, and the fact that some elementary schools are K-5 and some are K-6 (with correspondingly different middle schools). Here is an example of one of the many considerations that are surfacing: it has been found that there are nearly 2900 (K-6) elementary-aged students living within 1 ½ miles of the Lacey site, and that 1.5 mile radius encroaches pretty deeply into the current attendance areas of 9 elementary schools, some of which are overcrowded, and some of which are not. Additionally, some of the densest pockets of housing exist in close proximity to Annandale Terrace ES and Annandale HS, which will make it very difficult to re-align boundaries. This will take time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, you appear to have some weird personality disorder that manifests itself through fixations and paranoia. You might want to talk to someone about that.

I have no 'agenda' except to provide information that others can use to make decisions. Would you care to be more explicit about exactly what nefarious motive you're accusing me of?

In fact, my child will probably attend Belvedere next year. I sliced and diced lots of numbers about various schools over the last year because I'm concerned about the quality of the schools that my children will attend, and debated moving to a different school area, but for now we've decided to at least try Belvedere ( although we'll choose the magnet program at Bailey's if we're lucky in the school lottery, mostly because I concluded after slicing and dicing their data that they are doing a really good job with kids from all demographic categories ). I happen to know more about Belvedere than any of the other schools mentioned, and there was some incorrect information and omissions in earlier posts, so I chimed in with what I know and can be objective about. I've visited the school and I've talked to parents who have kids at the school. I've heard a few 'raves' and a few less-than-enthusiastic responses, but not enough to know for sure what our child's experience will be.

Finally, I'll point out that my post was in response to two posts: poster 3/5 13:12 initially mentioned Belvedere as an Annandale-area school and mistakenly listed their FRL percentage as 48%, even though it's really 52%. 20:45 then pointed out that two of the schools in that post were GT Centers which likely skewed their FRL ratios, but neglected to mention that Belvedere had a GT Center. I corrected that poster's omission by pointing out that Belvedere also houses a GT center which affects its numbers, too, and used the adjective 'much', which you've fixated on. And, by the way, another reason that the reported Belvedere numbers may be skewed is because there are 32 children enrolled in preschool special-ed classes at Belvedere that take out-of-boundary kids who also have demographics different than the in-boundary school population, something that I did not mention in earlier posts.

In fact, my estimates on 3/7 at 08:14 were likely underestimates because I did them too quickly for the sake of posting. Looking at the demographics reported with the DRA data for recent years for 1st and 2nd grade, which are unaffected by the GT center, last year's 1st grade was 60% FRL, 2nd grade was 67.5%, and last year's "in boundary" 3rd grade class was probably about 59% FRL, which would take the in-boundary, non-GT average closer to 63% FRL (weighted for class size, and assuming the other grades have similar demographics) . This is more consistent with what I observe at the school and with what I know about the boundaries.

I believe my use of the term "much" to be perfectly reasonable, (since an increase from the 13:12 poster's reported aggregate percentage of FRL kids of 48% to one closer to what I initially though was about 58% but which now seems more likely to be more like 63% seems like "much" to me and most reasonable people, I suspect), but with the data that I've provided the readers of this thread can draw their own conclusions.

Regardless, the bottom line is that 13:12 said that the FRL percentage was 48%. The actual reported percentage is 52%. The data indicate that the in-boundary population is most likely to be between 58% and 63% FRL, which is definitely 'much' higher than the initially reported 48%.

Oh, and in an attempt to keep this relevant to the OP, a new elementary school in the area, to be called "Lacey Elementary" is being built and is scheduled to open in 2011. The boundaries for Lacey will probably mostly draw kids from Belvedere (which is slightly overcrowded and had 3 or 4 trailers last time I counted) and Beech Tree (which is very overcrowded) and will affect the demographics of both of those schools in an as-yet-unknown way.

Since you're clearly obsessed with slicing and dicing numbers, you might get them right first. Belvedere has 48% FRL; it's in the 2010 CIP.

Please let us know if you do decide to send your child to Belvedere, so the rest of us can run like hell in the opposite direction.

[Anonymous]

I believe that's a typo in the SIP. The numbers in Belvedere's profile have been greater than 50% for the last two years.

http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:230133560982395:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:456

Where does your child attend school? Do you have actual experience to share with the OP, or do you feel that your advantage lies in throwing around ineffective insults?

[Anonymous]

http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13:230133560982395:::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID:456

I'll try again, but apparently a : followed by a P gets turned into a smiley face, so you may need to go to this link instead instead and click on the demographics tab to see the 52%

http://commweb.fcps.edu/schoolprofile/profile.cfm?profile_id=456

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
http://www.annandalehsptsa.org/information_links/boundaryStudy.htm

This study, which should start in the next two months, will be very long and complicated due to the fact that it will affect all three levels of schools, and will also look at issues such as split-feeders, attendance islands, and the fact that some elementary schools are K-5 and some are K-6 (with correspondingly different middle schools). Here is an example of one of the many considerations that are surfacing: it has been found that there are nearly 2900 (K-6) elementary-aged students living within 1 ½ miles of the Lacey site, and that 1.5 mile radius encroaches pretty deeply into the current attendance areas of 9 elementary schools, some of which are overcrowded, and some of which are not. Additionally, some of the densest pockets of housing exist in close proximity to Annandale Terrace ES and Annandale HS, which will make it very difficult to re-align boundaries. This will take time.

The rambling, multi-page Annandale HS PTA materials are bizarre. I gather the complaints about sending the kids to Falls Church and Lake Braddock HS didn't gain much traction and will be phased in starting this fall. I don't know how the parents can complain about overcrowding and then object when the School Board starts to do something about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
http://www.annandalehsptsa.org/information_links/boundaryStudy.htm

This study, which should start in the next two months, will be very long and complicated due to the fact that it will affect all three levels of schools, and will also look at issues such as split-feeders, attendance islands, and the fact that some elementary schools are K-5 and some are K-6 (with correspondingly different middle schools). Here is an example of one of the many considerations that are surfacing: it has been found that there are nearly 2900 (K-6) elementary-aged students living within 1 ½ miles of the Lacey site, and that 1.5 mile radius encroaches pretty deeply into the current attendance areas of 9 elementary schools, some of which are overcrowded, and some of which are not. Additionally, some of the densest pockets of housing exist in close proximity to Annandale Terrace ES and Annandale HS, which will make it very difficult to re-align boundaries. This will take time.

The rambling, multi-page Annandale HS PTA materials are bizarre. I gather the complaints about sending the kids to Falls Church and Lake Braddock HS didn't gain much traction and will be phased in starting this fall. I don't know how the parents can complain about overcrowding and then object when the School Board starts to do something about it.

This is not referring to Annandale High School boundaries but to the new Lacey Elementary School boundaries. The domino effect on so many elementary schools and middle schools is pretty dramatic. You can also read more about it on BoardDocs:

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/d62d9cb847ef1cbd87257328006795e4/a3c5a7a36d16a6f687257663007379d7/$FILE/03-08-2010%20%282%29.pdf

[Anonymous]

PP: Thank you for that link. I was wondering about the likely impact on the demographics of the potentially affected schools, and this is great information! I figured there had to be information about it somewhere, but hadn't been able to find it.

[Anonymous]

I have lived in Annandale for a combined 26 years. I went to Wakefield Forest, Frost, and Woodson. My children went to Weyanoke, Holmes, and Annandale. I don't care about FRL, ESOL, or any other "markers" people use to describe schools. I couldn't stand Woodson - monolithic, boring, and homogenous. And it is still the same way. My children's school, Weyanoke, has done a tremendous job and is exactly what elementary school should be - caring, challenging, and successful. Annandale HS is also a wonderful place - well-managed, with clear academic expectations and opportunities for as advanced an education as you can find in Northern Virginia. If you want specific information, not data on GT centers, feel free to post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have lived in Annandale for a combined 26 years. I went to Wakefield Forest, Frost, and Woodson. My children went to Weyanoke, Holmes, and Annandale. I don't care about FRL, ESOL, or any other "markers" people use to describe schools. I couldn't stand Woodson - monolithic, boring, and homogenous. And it is still the same way. My children's school, Weyanoke, has done a tremendous job and is exactly what elementary school should be - caring, challenging, and successful. Annandale HS is also a wonderful place - well-managed, with clear academic expectations and opportunities for as advanced an education as you can find in Northern Virginia. If you want specific information, not data on GT centers, feel free to post.

Woodson - currently 63% White, 22% Asian, 10% Black or Hispanic and 5% Other - doesn't exactly strike me as "homogenous," though perhaps that was a fair characterization when you were there.

[Anonymous]

Woodson - currently 63% White, 22% Asian, 10% Black or Hispanic and 5% Other - doesn't exactly strike me as "homogenous," though perhaps that was a fair characterization when you were there.

But if you look at Woodson's district, there is clearly less economic diversity vs a school like Annandale or Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Woodson - currently 63% White, 22% Asian, 10% Black or Hispanic and 5% Other - doesn't exactly strike me as "homogenous," though perhaps that was a fair characterization when you were there.

But if you look at Woodson's district, there is clearly less economic diversity vs a school like Annandale or Falls Church.

So what - does a school have to be as diverse as Annandale or Falls Church HS to avoid getting labeled "monolithic, boring, and homogenous"? Compared to most parts of the country, a school like Woodson would be considered very diverse.

[Anonymous]

I guess it just depends on what you're comparing. I'm not 21:19, so I can't speak to what they meant, but I do think the student body at a place like Woodson is going to more homogeneous in terms of income levels and parental involvement than places with more economic diversity. Some may think that this is a good thing, but I'm not so sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess it just depends on what you're comparing. I'm not 21:19, so I can't speak to what they meant, but I do think the student body at a place like Woodson is going to more homogeneous in terms of income levels and parental involvement than places with more economic diversity. Some may think that this is a good thing, but I'm not so sure.

Unless you're suggesting that Woodson is full of helicopter parents, I would tend to think that high levels of parental involvement in their kids' education is a good thing.