How the Democrats lost their way on immigration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Yes, but by that same token some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here, so I don't think it's fair to characterize the entire Dem party or HRC as pro-illegal immigration, unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites.

Please do provide links to this assertion. I'd really love to know exactly what Republican elected official has stated they only want "white Europeans to be able to immigrate here". I'll be waiting.

Some quotes from Congressman Steve King:

"“I would ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you are talking about, where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?" King responded. When Chris Hayes asked King if he meant no group had done more than white people, he replied, "Than — than western civilization itself that's rooted in western Europe, eastern Europe and the United States of America, and every place where Christianity settled the world. That's all of western civilization.""

Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz isn’t the only one who compares health-care costs to the cost of iPhones. In a September 2016 congressional hearing on the Hyde Amendment, King made comments about abortion causing a black genocide — a common myth cited by anti-abortion activists. Then when questioned by Rewire’s Christine Grimaldi, he later implied that even if he tried to prevent them from this "genocide" — by ensuring Medicaid would not cover abortion — African-Americans would find a way to terminate pregnancies anyway. After saying abortion was a “tragedy for any life, no matter what color,” King also responded, “They chose to have an abortion. I would give you even money that a vast majority of mothers who say they can’t afford an abortion have an iPhone, which costs more.”

Considering his long history of racially offensive quotes it shouldn't surprise anyone that King did little to condemn the actions of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia. King called the battle around the Confederate flag newly emerged and "politically driven," rather than acknowledge the symbol it has played in over a century of racial inequity. "Let’s put that stuff behind us in history,” King told local Iowa television station KCCI 8, according to Think Progress. “The Civil War was history, the Confederacy was history. There’s a symbol there that means slavery to some, but it means a historical pride in the south in others, and we should be able to look at it as history.”

February 2015: Steve King tweeted a political cartoon depicting Barack Obama wearing a turban.


https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a9129973/steve-king-quotes-abortion-immigration/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/steve-king-offensive-quotes.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ez8a44/a-short-history-of-congressman-steve-king-saying-racist-shit

Let me get this straight. You first claim that "some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here" and "unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites," explicitly condemning all Republicans and insisting they all believe this. When called out on this idiotic and spurious claim, you come up with one (1) elected official who has made some controversial remarks.

Do you have any concept of how completely idiotic and crazy you sound? You've made a sweeping generalization about an entire party based on the remarks of ONE PERSON. SMGDH.

[Anonymous]

LOL, pp. LOL.

I will leave other pps to rip you to shreds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives wants everyone to have access to those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

You want everyone in the world to have those things? Good luck paying for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty far left but I would prefer the Democrats move to the right on immigration. We cannot have what we want- medicare for all, low cost college, maternity leave, higher wages, stronger unions, low cost childcare- unless we have pretty strict limits on immigration. The Democrats' Wall Street and Silicon Valley stand in the way. I am waiting for common sense to break through.

Fail. Real progressives want ***everyone else to pay for*** those things, not just to redraw the line between the haves and have-nots to include themselves at the expense of others. But good on you for trying to imitate.

You want everyone in the world to have those things? Good luck paying for that.

Fixed it for you.

[Anonymous]

I’d be willing to bet that most UMC white liberals around here that pretend to be offended by King’s remarks covet suits from England and Italy, French and German dinnerware and cutlery, European art films, grand old houses in NW and Chevy Chase designed by men who had attitudes about race that would make King blush and have a conniption fit if they can’t go on an annual pilgrimage to...Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“What if” goppers weren’t racist loons?
“What if” businesses were actually fined harshly enough to prevent them from hiring undocumented workers?
“What if” billionaires hadnt secreted away their money out of circulation?
“What if” you had put your source?

Right now the biggest racist loon in town is not GOP...
I'm all for your second point and notice Democrats bring it up over and over. Let's say e-verify is aggressively applied tomorrow. What would you do with all the people fired, many who have been here for decades? I'm curious what comes next in your approach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Yes, but by that same token some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here, so I don't think it's fair to characterize the entire Dem party or HRC as pro-illegal immigration, unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites.

Please do provide links to this assertion. I'd really love to know exactly what Republican elected official has stated they only want "white Europeans to be able to immigrate here". I'll be waiting.

Some quotes from Congressman Steve King:

"“I would ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people that you are talking about, where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?" King responded. When Chris Hayes asked King if he meant no group had done more than white people, he replied, "Than — than western civilization itself that's rooted in western Europe, eastern Europe and the United States of America, and every place where Christianity settled the world. That's all of western civilization.""

Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz isn’t the only one who compares health-care costs to the cost of iPhones. In a September 2016 congressional hearing on the Hyde Amendment, King made comments about abortion causing a black genocide — a common myth cited by anti-abortion activists. Then when questioned by Rewire’s Christine Grimaldi, he later implied that even if he tried to prevent them from this "genocide" — by ensuring Medicaid would not cover abortion — African-Americans would find a way to terminate pregnancies anyway. After saying abortion was a “tragedy for any life, no matter what color,” King also responded, “They chose to have an abortion. I would give you even money that a vast majority of mothers who say they can’t afford an abortion have an iPhone, which costs more.”

Considering his long history of racially offensive quotes it shouldn't surprise anyone that King did little to condemn the actions of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia. King called the battle around the Confederate flag newly emerged and "politically driven," rather than acknowledge the symbol it has played in over a century of racial inequity. "Let’s put that stuff behind us in history,” King told local Iowa television station KCCI 8, according to Think Progress. “The Civil War was history, the Confederacy was history. There’s a symbol there that means slavery to some, but it means a historical pride in the south in others, and we should be able to look at it as history.”

February 2015: Steve King tweeted a political cartoon depicting Barack Obama wearing a turban.


https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a9129973/steve-king-quotes-abortion-immigration/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/steve-king-offensive-quotes.html
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ez8a44/a-short-history-of-congressman-steve-king-saying-racist-shit

Let me get this straight. You first claim that "some Rs have outright stated they only want white Europeans to be able to immigrate here" and "unless Rs are willing to agree that their party is only for legal immigration of whites," explicitly condemning all Republicans and insisting they all believe this. When called out on this idiotic and spurious claim, you come up with one (1) elected official who has made some controversial remarks.

Do you have any concept of how completely idiotic and crazy you sound? You've made a sweeping generalization about an entire party based on the remarks of ONE PERSON. SMGDH.

Oh, PP, it's really helpful to read the entire thread. Please read the bolded/underlined up top. What you stated is exactly what I was saying about how some people think ALL Dems want open borders... that because *some* Dems have stated this, it doesn't mean that ALL Dems want it.. just like how *some* Rs seem to only want white European immigrants, it doesn't mean ALL Rs only want this.

Got it now?

smh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be willing to bet that most UMC white liberals around here that pretend to be offended by King’s remarks covet suits from England and Italy, French and German dinnerware and cutlery, European art films, grand old houses in NW and Chevy Chase designed by men who had attitudes about race that would make King blush and have a conniption fit if they can’t go on an annual pilgrimage to...Europe.

I don't see anything wrong with liking certain things from mostly European countries. That in no way means that a person is racist.

I love Europe. Been there many times. But I also love Mexican food, and when I go to Europe for 3 weeks, I usually crave Mexican food, which they don't have, at least good ones, in Europe.

I love the Cotswalds in the UK - beautiful English cottages, but I also love the Mexican colors and architecture too. I used to live in CA, and I much prefer the Med/Spanish architecture than the colonials here on the east coast. I went to Puebla MX recently, and fell in love with that area.

You seem really confused as to what it means to be racist. I'm not white btw, or live in one of those rich areas you mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article containing a lot of truth about how HRC *might* have won in 2016 if she had taken a more serious approach to immigration, both legal and illegal. Of course, she would never have done this, but it's an interesting "what-if".

"In 2014, the University of California listed melting pot as a term it considered a “microaggression.” What if Hillary Clinton had traveled to one of its campuses and called that absurd? What if she had challenged elite universities to celebrate not merely multiculturalism and globalization but Americanness? What if she had said more boldly that the slowing rate of English-language acquisition was a problem she was determined to solve? What if she had acknowledged the challenges that mass immigration brings, and then insisted that Americans could overcome those challenges by focusing not on what makes them different but on what makes them the same?
Some on the left would have howled. But I suspect that Clinton would be president today."

You are attacking a fundamental right of rich elites, the right to cheap fungible desperate housekeepers. Must always keep a huge supply of low skilled workers to keep wages low. Just think of what could happen? Rich elites would have to pay MORE for help, low skilled workers might get a living wage as wages rise. Oh the humanity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

Immigration is good for rich elites, large corporations and the chamber of commerce. It is NOT good for the middle class and low skilled workers. That is bogus theory propagated by agents of the beneficiaries of immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

Immigration is good for rich elites, large corporations and the chamber of commerce. It is NOT good for the middle class and low skilled workers. That is bogus theory propagated by agents of the beneficiaries of immigration.

I don't think immigration really harms the middle class, it's more the low skilled workers that get harmed. Then again, my babysitters are Americans and I pay them very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article containing a lot of truth about how HRC *might* have won in 2016 if she had taken a more serious approach to immigration, both legal and illegal. Of course, she would never have done this, but it's an interesting "what-if".

"In 2014, the University of California listed melting pot as a term it considered a “microaggression.” What if Hillary Clinton had traveled to one of its campuses and called that absurd? What if she had challenged elite universities to celebrate not merely multiculturalism and globalization but Americanness? What if she had said more boldly that the slowing rate of English-language acquisition was a problem she was determined to solve? What if she had acknowledged the challenges that mass immigration brings, and then insisted that Americans could overcome those challenges by focusing not on what makes them different but on what makes them the same?
Some on the left would have howled. But I suspect that Clinton would be president today."

You are attacking a fundamental right of rich elites, the right to cheap fungible desperate housekeepers. Must always keep a huge supply of low skilled workers to keep wages low. Just think of what could happen? Rich elites would have to pay MORE for help, low skilled workers might get a living wage as wages rise. Oh the humanity!

Actually, the OP is talking about political correctness, not economic displacement. For OP, what happens in elite college campuses is much more important than the factory floor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immigration is good.

OP here, and I agree. Legal, merit-based immigration is good.

Has she ever outright stated that illegal immigration is good? I know she is for DACA, but so are many Americans.

I don't know about Hillary but yes some Dems have outright praised illegal immigrants (looking at you Nancy) as if it's a virtue.

At the beginning of his campaign Bernie even had some frank speak on how illegal immigrants undercut wages for low income Americans... And then the party got to him and he shut up pretty quickly on that line.

Hillary did praise it. She said she admires illegal immigrants because it takes courage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article containing a lot of truth about how HRC *might* have won in 2016 if she had taken a more serious approach to immigration, both legal and illegal. Of course, she would never have done this, but it's an interesting "what-if".

"In 2014, the University of California listed melting pot as a term it considered a “microaggression.” What if Hillary Clinton had traveled to one of its campuses and called that absurd? What if she had challenged elite universities to celebrate not merely multiculturalism and globalization but Americanness? What if she had said more boldly that the slowing rate of English-language acquisition was a problem she was determined to solve? What if she had acknowledged the challenges that mass immigration brings, and then insisted that Americans could overcome those challenges by focusing not on what makes them different but on what makes them the same?
Some on the left would have howled. But I suspect that Clinton would be president today."

You are attacking a fundamental right of rich elites, the right to cheap fungible desperate housekeepers. Must always keep a huge supply of low skilled workers to keep wages low. Just think of what could happen? Rich elites would have to pay MORE for help, low skilled workers might get a living wage as wages rise. Oh the humanity!

Actually, the OP is talking about political correctness, not economic displacement. For OP, what happens in elite college campuses is much more important than the factory floor.

Hillary would have won if she said she would limit legal immigration. Just saying she would enforce Everify would guarantee win. Saying she would focus on us workers and she would have won. But instead she abandoned us workers in favor of bezos and zuckerberg, her masters, from the valley of the Democrats. We need a new party not Silicon Valley , just a new version of old Time robber barons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article containing a lot of truth about how HRC *might* have won in 2016 if she had taken a more serious approach to immigration, both legal and illegal. Of course, she would never have done this, but it's an interesting "what-if".

"In 2014, the University of California listed melting pot as a term it considered a “microaggression.” What if Hillary Clinton had traveled to one of its campuses and called that absurd? What if she had challenged elite universities to celebrate not merely multiculturalism and globalization but Americanness? What if she had said more boldly that the slowing rate of English-language acquisition was a problem she was determined to solve? What if she had acknowledged the challenges that mass immigration brings, and then insisted that Americans could overcome those challenges by focusing not on what makes them different but on what makes them the same?
Some on the left would have howled. But I suspect that Clinton would be president today."

You are attacking a fundamental right of rich elites, the right to cheap fungible desperate housekeepers. Must always keep a huge supply of low skilled workers to keep wages low. Just think of what could happen? Rich elites would have to pay MORE for help, low skilled workers might get a living wage as wages rise. Oh the humanity!

Actually, the OP is talking about political correctness, not economic displacement. For OP, what happens in elite college campuses is much more important than the factory floor.

Hillary would have won if she said she would limit legal immigration. Just saying she would enforce Everify would guarantee win. Saying she would focus on us workers and she would have won. But instead she abandoned us workers in favor of bezos and zuckerberg, her masters, from the valley of the Democrats. We need a new party not Silicon Valley , just a new version of old Time robber barons

Hillary lost for a lot of reasons, one of which was that her credibility was shot. So it doesn't matter what she would have said, too many people found her inauthentic. I don't it's a fair portrayal of her, but just adding one more triangulated position wasn't going to help.