Bethune joining MSDC Lottery, still no LAMB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LAMB doesn't handle its lottery well. Let's not forget that they published the names of the applicant kids and birthdates on the web just a few years ago, and didn't take them down until parents complained. They're shooting themselves in the foot by not using the common lottery which is far more professionally run. Right now people question whether selections for the LAMB pool are done fairly.

The data above on ELL numbers seems to dispute this. Since the primary reason for a separate lottery is to recruit Spanish dominant families directly. They also allow entering the lottery on paper which is another recruitment tactic. And, results are shared live and you can go and watch the computer-generated selection. So no shot in the foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

There is no publicly reported data for native speakers for charters (DCPS runs 2 lotteries for its immersion schools so their balance is 50-50).

We can sort of get a sense by using the percentage of ELL students as a rough proxy for native speakers (I know it isn't perfect since not every ELL student comes from a Spanish-spekaing household). Here is how LAMB compares to the other dual language Spanish charter schools.

From enrollment audit 17-18 - ELL students/Total students

LAMB
167/462 - 36%

MV
122/578 - 21%

DCB
200/440 - 45%

Stokes (with the French / Spanish it is even a worse comparison... but someone will ask)
25/350 - 7%

Interesting. DCB is higher, but, I think LAMB would head more toward the way of Stokes or maybe MV. DCB only recently became "desirable" and "HRCS". Perhaps the plan is working after all.

My kids are at DCB and there are many students with Spanish speaking parents who are likely not considered ELL (one parent is a native speaker and the other is not).

However, it is true that the preschool and K classes do seem more gentrified ... it's for sure a trade off. But my sense from LAMB was that it's pretty gentrified too. No?

Yes LAMB is "gentrified" so to speak. More and more upper income. I do wonder how is ELL determined? Self-reporting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it works for them. Because they aren’t required to. Because they dont want to pay the fee required to be in the lottery.

I didn’t realize there is a fee to join.

Schools pay a 'tax' to support it based on how many students they have in their school.

This is incorrect. Charter sector support comes from the SOAR (three-sector) funds, off the top, without regard to how many schools are participating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

I believe it. Unlike a Powell or Bancroft which are neighborhood schools with Hispanic populations, how else will Lamb be able to have a balance? Gentrification isn’t likely to support the dual-language model.

Dont forget about Bruce Monroe-also a DCPS spanish immersion. BM is about 70% spanish dominant. And honestly its unfair that neighborhood kids get shut out in preschool because they are english dominant.

BM dips pretty deep into its Spanish-dominant OOB list to fill their self-imposed 70% Spanish-dominant quotas, while the English-dominant 3 year-olds born a block away are waitlisted and told "see you in Kinder! Or not! We don't care! We have a mission and you're not it!" Meanwhile, they're having to combine classrooms in older grades because they're so seriously underenrolled in 5th (and 4th?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

There is no publicly reported data for native speakers for charters (DCPS runs 2 lotteries for its immersion schools so their balance is 50-50).

We can sort of get a sense by using the percentage of ELL students as a rough proxy for native speakers (I know it isn't perfect since not every ELL student comes from a Spanish-spekaing household). Here is how LAMB compares to the other dual language Spanish charter schools.

From enrollment audit 17-18 - ELL students/Total students

LAMB
167/462 - 36%

MV
122/578 - 21%

DCB
200/440 - 45%

Stokes (with the French / Spanish it is even a worse comparison... but someone will ask)
25/350 - 7%

Interesting. DCB is higher, but, I think LAMB would head more toward the way of Stokes or maybe MV. DCB only recently became "desirable" and "HRCS". Perhaps the plan is working after all.

My kids are at DCB and there are many students with Spanish speaking parents who are likely not considered ELL (one parent is a native speaker and the other is not).

However, it is true that the preschool and K classes do seem more gentrified ... it's for sure a trade off. But my sense from LAMB was that it's pretty gentrified too. No?

Yes LAMB is "gentrified" so to speak. More and more upper income. I do wonder how is ELL determined? Self-reporting?

ELL is determined by the number of students receiving specialized support or instruction in English. To determine who may need services a school takes the input we all provide on that language survey form done at enrollment and then determines if the child needs additional supports to catch up in English.

Children who qualify for ELL services can be of any income level, but one from a wealthy family may not need the special services for as long as a poorer student. Also a child who enters the school as an ELL in PK may not be classified as such by 2nd or 3rd regardless of what is in the language survey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

There is no publicly reported data for native speakers for charters (DCPS runs 2 lotteries for its immersion schools so their balance is 50-50).

We can sort of get a sense by using the percentage of ELL students as a rough proxy for native speakers (I know it isn't perfect since not every ELL student comes from a Spanish-spekaing household). Here is how LAMB compares to the other dual language Spanish charter schools.

From enrollment audit 17-18 - ELL students/Total students

LAMB
167/462 - 36%

MV
122/578 - 21%

DCB
200/440 - 45%

Stokes (with the French / Spanish it is even a worse comparison... but someone will ask)
25/350 - 7%

Interesting. DCB is higher, but, I think LAMB would head more toward the way of Stokes or maybe MV. DCB only recently became "desirable" and "HRCS". Perhaps the plan is working after all.

My kids are at DCB and there are many students with Spanish speaking parents who are likely not considered ELL (one parent is a native speaker and the other is not).

However, it is true that the preschool and K classes do seem more gentrified ... it's for sure a trade off. But my sense from LAMB was that it's pretty gentrified too. No?

Yes LAMB is "gentrified" so to speak. More and more upper income. I do wonder how is ELL determined? Self-reporting?

ELL is determined by the number of students receiving specialized support or instruction in English. To determine who may need services a school takes the input we all provide on that language survey form done at enrollment and then determines if the child needs additional supports to catch up in English.

Children who qualify for ELL services can be of any income level, but one from a wealthy family may not need the special services for as long as a poorer student. Also a child who enters the school as an ELL in PK may not be classified as such by 2nd or 3rd regardless of what is in the language survey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

There is no publicly reported data for native speakers for charters (DCPS runs 2 lotteries for its immersion schools so their balance is 50-50).

We can sort of get a sense by using the percentage of ELL students as a rough proxy for native speakers (I know it isn't perfect since not every ELL student comes from a Spanish-spekaing household). Here is how LAMB compares to the other dual language Spanish charter schools.

From enrollment audit 17-18 - ELL students/Total students

LAMB
167/462 - 36%

MV
122/578 - 21%

DCB
200/440 - 45%

Stokes (with the French / Spanish it is even a worse comparison... but someone will ask)
25/350 - 7%

Interesting. DCB is higher, but, I think LAMB would head more toward the way of Stokes or maybe MV. DCB only recently became "desirable" and "HRCS". Perhaps the plan is working after all.

My kids are at DCB and there are many students with Spanish speaking parents who are likely not considered ELL (one parent is a native speaker and the other is not).

However, it is true that the preschool and K classes do seem more gentrified ... it's for sure a trade off. But my sense from LAMB was that it's pretty gentrified too. No?

Yes LAMB is "gentrified" so to speak. More and more upper income. I do wonder how is ELL determined? Self-reporting?

ELL is determined by the number of students receiving specialized support or instruction in English. To determine who may need services a school takes the input we all provide on that language survey form done at enrollment and then determines if the child needs additional supports to catch up in English.

Children who qualify for ELL services can be of any income level, but one from a wealthy family may not need the special services for as long as a poorer student. Also a child who enters the school as an ELL in PK may not be classified as such by 2nd or 3rd regardless of what is in the language survey.

So, given this is ELL a good measure or not for Spanish speakers at a school? What about using Hispanic student percentages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

I believe it. Unlike a Powell or Bancroft which are neighborhood schools with Hispanic populations, how else will Lamb be able to have a balance? Gentrification isn’t likely to support the dual-language model.

Dont forget about Bruce Monroe-also a DCPS spanish immersion. BM is about 70% spanish dominant. And honestly its unfair that neighborhood kids get shut out in preschool because they are english dominant.

BM dips pretty deep into its Spanish-dominant OOB list to fill their self-imposed 70% Spanish-dominant quotas, while the English-dominant 3 year-olds born a block away are waitlisted and told "see you in Kinder! Or not! We don't care! We have a mission and you're not it!" Meanwhile, they're having to combine classrooms in older grades because they're so seriously underenrolled in 5th (and 4th?).

I was waitlisted and fine with it. We got a spot somewhere else. There is just to way to maintain enough Spanish speakers without the preference, and without the Spanish program the school would not be as appealing. Free preschool should be for those who truly need it, and others can have space if there is room.

[Anonymous]

Hispanic percentages:

DCB: 71%
LAMB: 47%
Stokes: 25%
Mundo Verde: 38%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hispanic percentages:

DCB: 71%
LAMB: 47%
Stokes: 25%
Mundo Verde: 38%

Oh wait, on the new QSR looks like LAMB at 37% Hispanic. That's a big drop.

[Anonymous]

Huh, I really thought LAMB would join the rest of the city when Diane exited. Anyone have real insight into why the new ED didn't join aside from all the speculation about shady recruitment/lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huh, I really thought LAMB would join the rest of the city when Diane exited. Anyone have real insight into why the new ED didn't join aside from all the speculation about shady recruitment/lottery?

It is probably because she is interim, and therefore is not trying to make any major changes. That would be the job of the new permanent ED once hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, I really thought LAMB would join the rest of the city when Diane exited. Anyone have real insight into why the new ED didn't join aside from all the speculation about shady recruitment/lottery?

It is probably because she is interim, and therefore is not trying to make any major changes. That would be the job of the new permanent ED once hired.

I think this is definitely the biggest reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real answer is because they want to try to acquire native speaker families to support their immersion model and they know if they are in the common lottery every white gentrifier will mindlessly click the button to add them to their list.

I know this is the reason stated. Does anyone have any data on this to suggest if it still holds true?

I believe it. Unlike a Powell or Bancroft which are neighborhood schools with Hispanic populations, how else will Lamb be able to have a balance? Gentrification isn’t likely to support the dual-language model.

+1