risked out of Wisdom, now what

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a FHBC patient and they risked you out of the practice for GD. However, this policy was put in place because WHC required it in order to allow the midwives to deliver there. So simmer down there, folks. They might need to risk people out for reasons outside of the midwives' control. Either way, it's silly to jump to conclusions.

With all due respect, duh. That doesn't make the practice any less surprising when it happens to you. I was the PP released by her midwives at 30 weeks, right before a long holiday weekend and I remember panicking, because what the hell do I do now? Picking a care provider is hard enough, harder still when there's a timer running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a FHBC patient and they risked you out of the practice for GD. However, this policy was put in place because WHC required it in order to allow the midwives to deliver there. So simmer down there, folks. They might need to risk people out for reasons outside of the midwives' control. Either way, it's silly to jump to conclusions.

With all due respect, duh. That doesn't make the practice any less surprising when it happens to you. I was the PP released by her midwives at 30 weeks, right before a long holiday weekend and I remember panicking, because what the hell do I do now? Picking a care provider is hard enough, harder still when there's a timer running.

I was responding to PPs who were making claims like Wisdom drops GD patients to keep down their c-section rate, or because the midwives are bullies. Obviously it is stressful if you have to find a new practice, but my comment was not in reference to that.

[Anonymous]

I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

This is the PP you quoted. I'm not sure there is a specific number of times, and now that there are 6 midwives you could probably legitimately see her maybe 2-3x. I am currently in the same boat as you (told I had to see her at my 3rd appt), so I am curious to see if there are other times that I am going to be told I have to see her. But right after the GD will be one of the times I try my damnedest to avoid her!

Honestly, she's not ALWAYS a nightmare, but she is much more ... dogmatic ... than the other midwives in the practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get thee to Midwifery Care Associates, OP. I had GD at age 40, needed glyburide to keep the AM readings down, and delivered a 9# baby vaginally at 41 weeks. Labored in tub, etc. You can still have midwives.

NP. I wish I could but I am in VA. Wisdom didn't want me since I was FTM, AMA with hypothyroid and IBS issues. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

This is the PP you quoted. I'm not sure there is a specific number of times, and now that there are 6 midwives you could probably legitimately see her maybe 2-3x. I am currently in the same boat as you (told I had to see her at my 3rd appt), so I am curious to see if there are other times that I am going to be told I have to see her. But right after the GD will be one of the times I try my damnedest to avoid her!

Honestly, she's not ALWAYS a nightmare, but she is much more ... dogmatic ... than the other midwives in the practice.

I met with her recently (only my second midwife visit) and really liked her, but it is early yet. She didn't go crazy on the diet thing but I suppose if I develop issues like others here, she will. But I liked her much more than I expected to from reading the comments on this board. All that to say, if you want or have to meet with her, give her a chance at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

This is the PP you quoted. I'm not sure there is a specific number of times, and now that there are 6 midwives you could probably legitimately see her maybe 2-3x. I am currently in the same boat as you (told I had to see her at my 3rd appt), so I am curious to see if there are other times that I am going to be told I have to see her. But right after the GD will be one of the times I try my damnedest to avoid her!

Honestly, she's not ALWAYS a nightmare, but she is much more ... dogmatic ... than the other midwives in the practice.

I met with her recently (only my second midwife visit) and really liked her, but it is early yet. She didn't go crazy on the diet thing but I suppose if I develop issues like others here, she will. But I liked her much more than I expected to from reading the comments on this board. All that to say, if you want or have to meet with her, give her a chance at least.

Seconded. Her intensity clearly rubs lots of people the wrong way, and then they come on here and post. Still, Sierra is my favorite.

[Anonymous]

I have not birthed with Wisdom, but I was seeing them when I was pregnant in the winter of 2011 and spring of 2012 (3 miscarriages). I saw Whitney for my confirmation appointment of the first pregnancy, and I actually really liked her. At the time, my older child was almost 2. She was born in a birth center with midwives and no pain medication. I did not find Whitney to be dogmatic at all, and I strongly believe that the reason for her mellowness with me was that it wasn't my first time with the kind of experience she's shooting for. I am already familiar with the midwifery model of care. I'd already had an unmedicated vaginal birth. I had already breastfed one child for more than a year. I was already doing yoga and cutting out all the stuff that she wants you to cut out on the diet. This all came up because she asked me how I'd heard about her practice, and I mentioned the 3 people I know who had been clients of hers (not all of them ended up birthing with her and not all of them ended up birthing naturally) as well as my previous experience with midwifery. That pretty much forestalled any sort of lecture.

Obviously it would be better if no one got lectured, but I distinctly got the impression that if she is dogmatic, it's because she's very used to hearing the kind of questions that get posed on this board all the time about her practice - who does she think she is that she can tell you you HAVE to follow a specific diet, what if you WANT an epidural, etc. etc. I see a lot of complaining about the directives that the various midwifery practices issue w/r/t health issues like GD or psychiatric issues, diet issues, weight gain issues. The reality is that most medical personnel will suggest that you lose weight if you are overweight. Many practices will be concerned if you have out of control GD and a long history of psych issues. There are rules that have to be followed in all those cases for most practices. I think Wisdom gets a particularly bad reputation on those issues because they publicize their policies a lot better than most places.

I have since stopped TTC #2, but when I'm ready to get back on the horse, I would be thrilled to go back to Whitney and her colleagues. Over the course of my 3 miscarriages, I met with Whitney, Laura, Nora, Marsha, Kimya and Hannah (who was a student - is she still?). I liked them all very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

This is the PP you quoted. I'm not sure there is a specific number of times, and now that there are 6 midwives you could probably legitimately see her maybe 2-3x. I am currently in the same boat as you (told I had to see her at my 3rd appt), so I am curious to see if there are other times that I am going to be told I have to see her. But right after the GD will be one of the times I try my damnedest to avoid her!

Honestly, she's not ALWAYS a nightmare, but she is much more ... dogmatic ... than the other midwives in the practice.

I'm the PP you're quoting. I'm seeing her in a few weeks. I really hope you are right. It is so hard not to be prejudiced against her from these boards. I think someone who thinks GD is the mom's fault is psycho, frankly. I think if she told me that, I'd tell her I thought she was psycho and that would be that - i guess I'd be looking for a new care provider. So I guess I'm in this weird place of going into a meeting with someone feeling like I have a chip on my shoulder, which isn't really fair or productive. Yet, it is hard to do otherwise after reading these boards for a while. I only occasionally see someone profess love for Whitney and it seems to be one of two variations. First, they meet her and are like "she was a complete drill sergeant during my pregnancy but clutch for the delivery" or they imply they actually liked the "tough love." I don't like tough love. I want to be respected and treated as an equal. If I go in there and get demeaned, criticized, or patronized, I'll vote with my feet. I can't imagine trying to "avoid" her. But....I'm doing my best trying to reign in my feelings of rancor before I even meet the woman! But I've put in a call to FHBC to see about transfering if I really don't like her after my appointment so I guess I probably (and maybe unfairly) already have one foot out the door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not birthed with Wisdom, but I was seeing them when I was pregnant in the winter of 2011 and spring of 2012 (3 miscarriages). I saw Whitney for my confirmation appointment of the first pregnancy, and I actually really liked her. At the time, my older child was almost 2. She was born in a birth center with midwives and no pain medication. I did not find Whitney to be dogmatic at all, and I strongly believe that the reason for her mellowness with me was that it wasn't my first time with the kind of experience she's shooting for. I am already familiar with the midwifery model of care. I'd already had an unmedicated vaginal birth. I had already breastfed one child for more than a year. I was already doing yoga and cutting out all the stuff that she wants you to cut out on the diet. This all came up because she asked me how I'd heard about her practice, and I mentioned the 3 people I know who had been clients of hers (not all of them ended up birthing with her and not all of them ended up birthing naturally) as well as my previous experience with midwifery. That pretty much forestalled any sort of lecture.

Obviously it would be better if no one got lectured, but I distinctly got the impression that if she is dogmatic, it's because she's very used to hearing the kind of questions that get posed on this board all the time about her practice - who does she think she is that she can tell you you HAVE to follow a specific diet, what if you WANT an epidural, etc. etc. I see a lot of complaining about the directives that the various midwifery practices issue w/r/t health issues like GD or psychiatric issues, diet issues, weight gain issues. The reality is that most medical personnel will suggest that you lose weight if you are overweight. Many practices will be concerned if you have out of control GD and a long history of psych issues. There are rules that have to be followed in all those cases for most practices. I think Wisdom gets a particularly bad reputation on those issues because they publicize their policies a lot better than most places.

I have since stopped TTC #2, but when I'm ready to get back on the horse, I would be thrilled to go back to Whitney and her colleagues. Over the course of my 3 miscarriages, I met with Whitney, Laura, Nora, Marsha, Kimya and Hannah (who was a student - is she still?). I liked them all very much.

A PP here. This is reassuring to a degree. I had my first unmedicated, so perhaps I too will be "spared" the lecture. However, I have to say, the risk out stuff is strange to me. I'm not saying the more serious things, obesity, etc, and I have NO problem with anyone wanting to see a midwife needing to realize that this is not a place where you get an epidural. If you want an epidural, you have a major misunderstanding about what the midwifery care model entails. However, I bristle at the GD is the mom's fault thing (what? if so, I don't even need to take the test, since I'm thin, exercise, and almost never eat sugar or refined carbs, and didn't have it with my first PG, and had a 6.5 lb baby, but then what about all the evidence that says it has nothing to do with that and ANYONE can get it?) And as far as history of depression, I think her policy is any history of treatment. I don't get that. It seems REALLY exclusionary. I don't have any history of depression at all, so this is not a personal thing. but what does that have to do with anything? If I went to an OB and got depressed, he would refer me out, same as she should.

[Anonymous]

All this risking out talk is making me so, so glad I went to MCA with my first, and back again for my second. I could easily meet Wisdom's health requirements (e.g., diet, exercise), except for the depression I had a while back, which I treated well with psychotherapy and meds. Given how common depression is among women, refusing to see women with such a history is just absurd. There's a world of difference between severe, treatment-resistant major depressive disorder and dysthymia or mild depression.

I also don't know that there's one single midwifery model of care, other than seeking to minimize interventions and an expertise in uncomplicated pregnancies and deliveries. Midwives can easily see women who think they want epidurals, but they would discuss the risks with them. Moreover, most women who want epidurals wouldn't seek midwifery care to begin with.

But this dogma around diet, GD, psychiatric history, etc. isn't a midwife thing, it's a Wisdom thing--and probably more accurately still, a Whitney thing. I'm sure she's a skilled, experienced midwife, but I also think she has a strong interest in keeping her stats where they are that has less to do with patient care than with maintaining a certain reputation and elitism within this community. That doesn't make her a bad person, of course, but I think anyone who doesn't get that is missing the whole picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't posted on this thread before, but I delivered with Wisdom and had GD with my first. They told me that as long as I could control my sugars with diet and exercise, I could stay with them. I was told if I had to go on insulin, I would need to transfer to OB care. I think that's reasonable.

That said, I had the misfortune of seeing Whitney the appointment when I received my GD diagnosis and she all but said it was my fault. I followed the diet very closely and gained little weight in pregnancy (in fact my baby ended up being only just over 7 lbs even though I had GD and went 10 days past dates). Some of the Wisdom midwives get that there are factors with GD beyond the woman's control, but Whitney doesn't. This time I am going to be sure NOT to schedule my post-GD appointment with her.

I haven't met with Whitney yet. She sounds like a nightmare. How often do you have to meet with her? When I scheduled my third appointment, Tiphanni said I had to schedule with her, so I guess I'll find out myself if she's as awful as she sounds in a few weeks.

This is the PP you quoted. I'm not sure there is a specific number of times, and now that there are 6 midwives you could probably legitimately see her maybe 2-3x. I am currently in the same boat as you (told I had to see her at my 3rd appt), so I am curious to see if there are other times that I am going to be told I have to see her. But right after the GD will be one of the times I try my damnedest to avoid her!

Honestly, she's not ALWAYS a nightmare, but she is much more ... dogmatic ... than the other midwives in the practice.

I'm the PP you're quoting. I'm seeing her in a few weeks. I really hope you are right. It is so hard not to be prejudiced against her from these boards. I think someone who thinks GD is the mom's fault is psycho, frankly. I think if she told me that, I'd tell her I thought she was psycho and that would be that - i guess I'd be looking for a new care provider. So I guess I'm in this weird place of going into a meeting with someone feeling like I have a chip on my shoulder, which isn't really fair or productive. Yet, it is hard to do otherwise after reading these boards for a while. I only occasionally see someone profess love for Whitney and it seems to be one of two variations. First, they meet her and are like "she was a complete drill sergeant during my pregnancy but clutch for the delivery" or they imply they actually liked the "tough love." I don't like tough love. I want to be respected and treated as an equal. If I go in there and get demeaned, criticized, or patronized, I'll vote with my feet. I can't imagine trying to "avoid" her. But....I'm doing my best trying to reign in my feelings of rancor before I even meet the woman! But I've put in a call to FHBC to see about transfering if I really don't like her after my appointment so I guess I probably (and maybe unfairly) already have one foot out the door.

Quoted poster here again. This is probably obvious from my previous posts, but even having been through the really upsetting appointment with her where she implied the GD was my fault (for the record, I had a pre-pregnancy BMI of about 21-22, followed the diet carefully, failed the 1 hr and 3 hr by the slimmest of margins and never had any trouble keeping my sugar in check only with diet and exercise -- in fact, at the end of my pregnancy the endocrinologist said I could stop testing and didn't need to come in anymore -- only gained 25 lbs in pregnancy, 7 lb baby, unmedicated vaginal birth, etc.) I am still going to Wisdom for my second birth. Mostly this is because I do really like the other midwives (I have not yet met the two new ones, but hear they are great). I particularly really love Nora and Laura, one of whom delivered my first. If I hadn't had the specific GD experience with Whitney, I would probably still think she was a little overly intense about some things, but accept that that is probably a part of what has made her so successful.

[Anonymous]

PP, keep in mind (this is the poster who probably seems cranky, meeting with whitney in a few weeks to see if I can continue there) that we are hearing all of this third hand through unreliable sources. I've never seen anything official on history of depression so maybe it is only if you have uncontrolled depression or something but even that, you'd wonder. And what? You can't have had IBS? Did I just read that? I have IBS and nobody said a word about it to me - wasn't even questioned about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not birthed with Wisdom, but I was seeing them when I was pregnant in the winter of 2011 and spring of 2012 (3 miscarriages). I saw Whitney for my confirmation appointment of the first pregnancy, and I actually really liked her. At the time, my older child was almost 2. She was born in a birth center with midwives and no pain medication. I did not find Whitney to be dogmatic at all, and I strongly believe that the reason for her mellowness with me was that it wasn't my first time with the kind of experience she's shooting for. I am already familiar with the midwifery model of care. I'd already had an unmedicated vaginal birth. I had already breastfed one child for more than a year. I was already doing yoga and cutting out all the stuff that she wants you to cut out on the diet. This all came up because she asked me how I'd heard about her practice, and I mentioned the 3 people I know who had been clients of hers (not all of them ended up birthing with her and not all of them ended up birthing naturally) as well as my previous experience with midwifery. That pretty much forestalled any sort of lecture.

Obviously it would be better if no one got lectured, but I distinctly got the impression that if she is dogmatic, it's because she's very used to hearing the kind of questions that get posed on this board all the time about her practice - who does she think she is that she can tell you you HAVE to follow a specific diet, what if you WANT an epidural, etc. etc. I see a lot of complaining about the directives that the various midwifery practices issue w/r/t health issues like GD or psychiatric issues, diet issues, weight gain issues. The reality is that most medical personnel will suggest that you lose weight if you are overweight. Many practices will be concerned if you have out of control GD and a long history of psych issues. There are rules that have to be followed in all those cases for most practices. I think Wisdom gets a particularly bad reputation on those issues because they publicize their policies a lot better than most places.

I have since stopped TTC #2, but when I'm ready to get back on the horse, I would be thrilled to go back to Whitney and her colleagues. Over the course of my 3 miscarriages, I met with Whitney, Laura, Nora, Marsha, Kimya and Hannah (who was a student - is she still?). I liked them all very much.

A PP here. This is reassuring to a degree. I had my first unmedicated, so perhaps I too will be "spared" the lecture. However, I have to say, the risk out stuff is strange to me. I'm not saying the more serious things, obesity, etc, and I have NO problem with anyone wanting to see a midwife needing to realize that this is not a place where you get an epidural. If you want an epidural, you have a major misunderstanding about what the midwifery care model entails. However, I bristle at the GD is the mom's fault thing (what? if so, I don't even need to take the test, since I'm thin, exercise, and almost never eat sugar or refined carbs, and didn't have it with my first PG, and had a 6.5 lb baby, but then what about all the evidence that says it has nothing to do with that and ANYONE can get it?) And as far as history of depression, I think her policy is any history of treatment. I don't get that. It seems REALLY exclusionary. I don't have any history of depression at all, so this is not a personal thing. but what does that have to do with anything? If I went to an OB and got depressed, he would refer me out, same as she should.

I'm the PP that you're quoting, and I don't really have any history with the various issues in this thread. I personally am a little concerned that my 3 miscarriages could be a risk factor for them - despite having a previous uncomplicated pregnancy and vaginal birth with midwives, but since I haven't asked them specifically, I don't really know. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Re: the "history of depression" issue. My understanding was actually that their policy is (or was as of late 2011) that as long as you are under the care of a psych doctor, you're not going to get kicked out.

I think ultimately, the PP was right when she referred to a "three strikes" policy, though that does sound harsh. I think that a constellation of little complications results in them viewing your pregnancy as potentially more complicated and possibly in need of more medicalized care. My impression of Wisdom was that generally, they are fairly hands off - my previous midwifery practice was like this too.