Who is watching Wisconsin?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lazy, sloppy, selfish unions with sub-par results can't compete anymore. No money left to push all their incompetence under the rug anymore. sorry.

Remember when Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger ditched his US Airways jet in the Hudsen? Well, Sully was a lazy union member. The flight attendants that prepared the passengers for a crash landing and safely led them off the aircraft? Sloppy union members. The air traffic controllers who guided Sully in and cleared the airspace? Selfish union members. The ferry crews that rushed to the downed airliner to rescue the passengers? Incompetent union members. The police and firemen who contributed to the rescue? Lazy, sloppy, selfish, and incompetent union members.

The result of this effort of unions members? A "sub-par" rescue of all 155 passengers and crew.

heroes, all.

Of course the pilot union has been broken completely, and wages and benefits are about as good as being a bus driver today. and of course when the air traffic controllers tried to conduct an illegal strike, Reagan rightly fired them (or as he put it, they quit), and their wages and benefits have been market since. those examples are not the problem - and really, I can't and do not begrudge any private sector union (e.g., pilots, flight attendants). I think their time has come and gone, and that with modern labor law protections they are not needed, but I recognize what that achieved in the past. The problem today is with the public sector unions.

[Anonymous]

And in Georgia a fire crew "looked" and saw no smoke so never got off their truck, and feet never touched the ground. They drove off and an elderly lady died when the fire got larger and consumed her and her house. Nice work boys!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:And in Georgia a fire crew "looked" and saw no smoke so never got off their truck, and feet never touched the ground. They drove off and an elderly lady died when the fire got larger and consumed her and her house. Nice work boys!

Do you have a link to this story? I bet there is more to it than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lazy: Tell that to your airline pilot or UPS driver or school teacher to their face
Selfish: Tell that to a firefighter or police officer--to their face (please!)
Sloppy: Maybe they could dress better-I agree some of their outfits could be spruced up, and maybe you could help
Sub-par results: Yes, the vastly unionized industry of Wall Street, mortgage brokers, and Countrywide employees really should be blamed--to bad they are all completely non union.

The mortgage crisis is directly related to government insuring mortages and removing the risk of default to the investor. If the government had never meddled in the mortgage industry, the private sector would have been VERY stringent on lending and there would have been no bubble. The Government has taken too much risk out of investing so that irresponsible people can fully participate in the economy which predictably is unsustainable. Unions have created non-competative environments and inferior products and services that are too expensive. Thats why there is so much talk on this board about what private "un unionized" schools to send DC to.

If you knew about the mortgage industry, you would know that the bulk of subprime mortgages, ALT A mortgages, and exotic mortgages that started the housing crisis were not insured by the government. They were part of the private non-GSA mortgage market that had little govt regulation. The GSAs surely did lower their standards and underwriting, but that doesnt explain how the "VERY" stringent Countrywide went down since most of the crap they underwrote was not GSA insured.

I'm glad to hear you are sending your kids to the private "un unionized" private schools of DC. Although since your goal is a union free teaching environment, I could have just pointed you to DC charter schools, but then again I'm sure those lazy teachers would fail you too.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in Georgia a fire crew "looked" and saw no smoke so never got off their truck, and feet never touched the ground. They drove off and an elderly lady died when the fire got larger and consumed her and her house. Nice work boys!

Do you have a link to this story? I bet there is more to it than that.

http://statter911.com/2010/01/29/four-dekalb-county-georgia-firefighters-fired-over-response-to-house-fire-elderly-woman-dead-5-hours-after-crews-didnt-find-burning-house-during-the-first-response/

Here you go Jeff. Have a chew.

I do apologize. Apparently some feet got the ground to direct the truck out ot the tight culdesac.

I wonder what the legal costs down the line due to the diligence of thses men.....boys.

What was the bet for?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in Georgia a fire crew "looked" and saw no smoke so never got off their truck, and feet never touched the ground. They drove off and an elderly lady died when the fire got larger and consumed her and her house. Nice work boys!

Do you have a link to this story? I bet there is more to it than that.

http://statter911.com/2010/01/29/four-dekalb-county-georgia-firefighters-fired-over-response-to-house-fire-elderly-woman-dead-5-hours-after-crews-didnt-find-burning-house-during-the-first-response/

Here you go Jeff. Have a chew.

I do apologize. Apparently some feet got the ground to direct the truck out ot the tight culdesac.

I wonder what the legal costs down the line due to the diligence of thses men.....boys.

What was the bet for?

What you have there appears to be an entirely dysfunctional fire department. The firefighters have been fired and are under criminal investigation. Since that tragedy, there has been a total shakeup and the Fire Chief has resigned. The firefighters are unionized, but the union appears to be very weak. The union doesn't even have the right to strike.

In most the cases of the union members who participated in the Hudson river rescue, Unions had played an important role in strengthening training and safety requirements. Sully, himself, was the former safety chairman for the Airline Pilots Association. Perhaps the Dekalb County firefighters need a stronger union?

[Anonymous]

Unions suck.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that the American private sector is more or less competing against a China that is still in 1870 as far as their industrial policy, worker safety, wages, etc., are concerned.

Some of the conservatives here are acting like we're in 1970s Britain with regard to unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unions suck.

Why do you think unions are no longer necessary for American workers?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And in Georgia a fire crew "looked" and saw no smoke so never got off their truck, and feet never touched the ground. They drove off and an elderly lady died when the fire got larger and consumed her and her house. Nice work boys!

Do you have a link to this story? I bet there is more to it than that.

http://statter911.com/2010/01/29/four-dekalb-county-georgia-firefighters-fired-over-response-to-house-fire-elderly-woman-dead-5-hours-after-crews-didnt-find-burning-house-during-the-first-response/

Here you go Jeff. Have a chew.

I do apologize. Apparently some feet got the ground to direct the truck out ot the tight culdesac.

I wonder what the legal costs down the line due to the diligence of thses men.....boys.

What was the bet for?

What you have there appears to be an entirely dysfunctional fire department. The firefighters have been fired and are under criminal investigation. Since that tragedy, there has been a total shakeup and the Fire Chief has resigned. The firefighters are unionized, but the union appears to be very weak. The union doesn't even have the right to strike.

In most the cases of the union members who participated in the Hudson river rescue, Unions had played an important role in strengthening training and safety requirements. Sully, himself, was the former safety chairman for the Airline Pilots Association. Perhaps the Dekalb County firefighters need a stronger union?

Jeff PLEASE!

You are attempting to do some fancy dancing and failing!

What if it was your mother?

Is it a failure of the citizenry because the union was not stronger and had no right to strike? blah, blah, blah

What was the bet for??????????????????????????

[Anonymous]

If you knew about the mortgage industry, you would know that the bulk of subprime mortgages, ALT A mortgages, and exotic mortgages that started the housing crisis were not insured by the government. They were part of the private non-GSA mortgage market that had little govt regulation. The GSAs surely did lower their standards and underwriting, but that doesnt explain how the "VERY" stringent Countrywide went down since most of the crap they underwrote was not GSA insured.

Thank you for this - the notion that, if left unchecked, private industry would act in the best interests of the consumer is quaint, and appealing to those who have drunk the Ayn Rand Kool-Aid, but is belied by the actions of Countrywide and numerous other mortgage companies. The Big Short, by Michael Lewis, provides an excellent description of the mortgage crisis, although all but the most ardent free-marketers will finish it believing that most of the participants deserve long stints as guests of the state. Or to just be shot at dawn (for a few of them.)

[Anonymous]

They may not have had the right to strike but you can bet your ass since you like to bet that they did not perform their duty that day!

This should become an national poster issue!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you knew about the mortgage industry, you would know that the bulk of subprime mortgages, ALT A mortgages, and exotic mortgages that started the housing crisis were not insured by the government. They were part of the private non-GSA mortgage market that had little govt regulation. The GSAs surely did lower their standards and underwriting, but that doesnt explain how the "VERY" stringent Countrywide went down since most of the crap they underwrote was not GSA insured.

Thank you for this - the notion that, if left unchecked, private industry would act in the best interests of the consumer is quaint, and appealing to those who have drunk the Ayn Rand Kool-Aid, but is belied by the actions of Countrywide and numerous other mortgage companies. The Big Short, by Michael Lewis, provides an excellent description of the mortgage crisis, although all but the most ardent free-marketers will finish it believing that most of the participants deserve long stints as guests of the state. Or to just be shot at dawn (for a few of them.)

Investors in ALL mortgage backed securities expect the U.S. to either implicitly or explicitly insure against default. This is why motgage rates are so low and nobdoy cares about underwriting except the government. The Feds forced BOA to buy countrywides debt and then bailed out BOA. See how the Gov't is all over the mortgage market. This is why it blew up.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff PLEASE!

You are attempting to do some fancy dancing and failing!

What if it was your mother?

Is it a failure of the citizenry because the union was not stronger and had no right to strike? blah, blah, blah

What was the bet for??????????????????????????

The issue is whether unions play a positive or negative role. In the case of the Hudson River rescue, I documented how unions contributed to the successful rescue.

You pointed out that members of a dysfunctional fire department failed to perform their duty. You did not document how their union membership contributed to that failure. The obvious point that you might make is that the union allowed them to get away with being lazy. But, that suggestion is not supported given the weakness of the union. It is not clear that that particular union could do more than hold social events. Go look at the local's website and you will see what I mean. A much more likely scenario is that poor management allowed the firefighters to get away with poor performance. That suggestion is supported by the forced-resignation of the Fire Chief.

[Anonymous]

how did the unions have anything to do with the airplane landing and rescue? yes, they were union members. but non-union members would have done the exact same thing. that is like saying Peyton Manning's TD record is because he is a member of the NFL players union.

unions served a role in getting us to today's more fair labor laws. the playing field was evened. now they have no role.