Chase vs Capital One travel card

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have the CSR, CSP, 3 Chase Inks, and Chase Freedom.

I also have the Venture and VentureX.

I feel like if you want to get into the points game and get a lot of free travel, Chase is the way to go. If you just want lounge access and to get reimbursed for some travel, VentureX.

I'm canceling my VentureX this year because I got it only because they didn't limit authorized users and AUs got lounge access, and that was immediately changed after I got the card. We use the Chases all the time and I've learned that system pretty well, plus we go to a lot of Hyatts so the partner system works for us.

I feel this way about Amex points. I like Chase too and Hyatt is definitely a crown jewel of their system, but their point acquisition policy limits you. Once you have both Sapphires and one each of Inks, you're done. They used to give out Inks freely (I had five at one point) but that time has ended. You are now limited to one per category. Once you've exhausted bonuses on this limited lineup of cards, you're essentially done earning points except with regular spending.

Whereas Amex has a long list of cards you can continue getting with SUBs, they give retention bonuses and their bonused categories are much more generous. Amex gold has x4 on groceries, Amex green has x3 on all travel, Amex Plat has X5.

What benefits do you use on the American Express platinum? Do you book travel through American Express to make it worthwhile? I feel that with some of the high fee cards, you’re using benefits to offset the fee rather than making additional money/benefits.

We got an American Express platinum card with an additional user last year, but I don’t think I can justify keeping now that the fee for both has increased from $890 to $1090. Made a big effort to use the benefits for a year and came out $620 ahead but don’t think I would be able to do that for another year. I can get 6x points on groceries and streaming on my American Express preferred card for $95 fee per year (they reduced to $50 for me year). Also extra points for travel on Sapphire preferred.

Different PP here, but personally I think the Amex Plat is a stretch in terms of value of all the credits, it's become a real "coupon clipping" thing which annoys me to no end, and I think its pretty easy to overvalue these credits, since a lot of the times you wouldn't necessarily buy these things, or buy them as much without the credit.

A great simple Amex card is the Blue Business Plus, it gives 2x points on everything and has no annual fee, so it can be a place to hold your Amex points if you close everything else. Great keeper card if you want to be in the Amex points system but don't want the high fees/credits.

The Amex Blue Business card sounds like a great option for us to transfer our Platinum points to before closing that card. Unfortunately, I’m not working though (some health issues) so I’m not sure I can get a business card. DH works a salaried job.

Anyone can get a business card as a sole prop, using your SSN as the EIN, your name as the business name.

https://frequentmiler.com/how-to-apply-for-a-business-credit-card-as-a-sole-proprietorship/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you can use United Travel Bank for flights. It's true that airline credit via Amex is primarily for the things you list, but[/b] Travel Bank was one loophole.[b]

Retention bonuses over the years ranged from 25 to 40K.

Right, and in the endless evolving game, the United Travel Bank loophole for the Plat $200 credit was just closed by Amex a couple of months ago. They no longer reimburse those purchases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, you can use United Travel Bank for flights. It's true that airline credit via Amex is primarily for the things you list, but[/b] Travel Bank was one loophole.[b]

Retention bonuses over the years ranged from 25 to 40K.

Right, and in the endless evolving game, the United Travel Bank loophole for the Plat $200 credit was just closed by Amex a couple of months ago. They no longer reimburse those purchases.

It was good while it lasted, I got $1200 sitting there waiting for the next trip. Something else will come up. Things are always shifting in this game. That's why I am a proponent of earn-and-burn strategy. Alliances change, points devalue, partners get dropped. Don't sit on your points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

[Anonymous]

One thing I noticed after Amex kept pushing us to “upgrade” from Business Gold to Platinum was that when I actually ran the numbers on about $100k/year of real business spending, the Platinum didn’t make much financial sense for us.

The Gold card would likely earn around 250k to 300k Membership Rewards points annually because of the 4x top category multipliers. The Platinum would probably only earn around 120k to 160k points on the exact same spending since most purchases only earn 1x.

Even after giving Platinum full credit for ALL the perks and credits:

lounge access
hotel status
Dell/Adobe/Indeed credits
CLEAR/TSA credits
airline perks

…it still barely catches up after the much higher ~$895 annual fee.

And honestly, it’s hard to justify paying that much mainly for lounge access. Priority Pass especially has gotten pretty weak lately. Many partner lounges are overcrowded, restrict access, or outright reject Priority Pass during busy times.

So the Platinum really isn’t a better rewards card. It’s basically a premium travel perks subscription. For many actual businesses with heavy operational spending, the Gold is honestly the much stronger financial card even though it’s marketed as the “lower” card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing I noticed after Amex kept pushing us to “upgrade” from Business Gold to Platinum was that when I actually ran the numbers on about $100k/year of real business spending, the Platinum didn’t make much financial sense for us.

The Gold card would likely earn around 250k to 300k Membership Rewards points annually because of the 4x top category multipliers. The Platinum would probably only earn around 120k to 160k points on the exact same spending since most purchases only earn 1x.

Even after giving Platinum full credit for ALL the perks and credits:

lounge access
hotel status
Dell/Adobe/Indeed credits
CLEAR/TSA credits
airline perks

…it still barely catches up after the much higher ~$895 annual fee.

And honestly, it’s hard to justify paying that much mainly for lounge access. Priority Pass especially has gotten pretty weak lately. Many partner lounges are overcrowded, restrict access, or outright reject Priority Pass during busy times.

So the Platinum really isn’t a better rewards card. It’s basically a premium travel perks subscription. For many actual businesses with heavy operational spending, the Gold is honestly the much stronger financial card even though it’s marketed as the “lower” card.

This is the card you get for the sign up bonus, nothing else.

I had for a year when Amex offered to upgrade with a reasonable spending requirement (I think it was 6K over 4 months). Signed up, collected the bonus and the perks, and canceled next year.

[Anonymous]

I have heard the best way to use points is to ask Gemini. Give it all the necessary data and let it do the comparison for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Platinum would probably only earn around 120k to 160k points on the exact same spending since most purchases only earn 1x.

Yeah the Amex Plat is an absolute s-it card for everyday spending after you hit the bonus. Anyone using it for daily spending is a fool, especially when you can get the category bonuses like PP mentioned on the Gold, or just a flat 2x on the Blue Business Plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard the best way to use points is to ask Gemini. Give it all the necessary data and let it do the comparison for you.

And if you get lucky it might even hallucinate a new card for you to apply for!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Platinum would probably only earn around 120k to 160k points on the exact same spending since most purchases only earn 1x.

Yeah the Amex Plat is an absolute s-it card for everyday spending after you hit the bonus. Anyone using it for daily spending is a fool, especially when you can get the category bonuses like PP mentioned on the Gold, or just a flat 2x on the Blue Business Plus.

Oh yeah and let's be fair, Clear is pretty close to worthless now especially with Touchless Precheck. I wouldn't pay more than $25/year for it if I was paying out of pocket. So that credit is close to nothing in value, as an example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

This is just so...overwrought, dramatic and wrong, I don't know where to begin. I mean use points or don't, it's a hobby like any other, but don't make things up to support your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

This is just so...overwrought, dramatic and wrong, I don't know where to begin. I mean use points or don't, it's a hobby like any other, but don't make things up to support your point.

Yeah, a lot of inaccuracies and exaggerations, but I think I agree with the outcome- based on the way the OP described their travel patterns, probably best to keep to a simple setup like Sapphire Preferred+Freedom Unlimited. But plenty of ways to do some light credit card bonus hunting, maybe 2-3 new cards a year across Chase and Amex, and not get that deep into the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

This is just so...overwrought, dramatic and wrong, I don't know where to begin. I mean use points or don't, it's a hobby like any other, but don't make things up to support your point.

Yeah, a lot of inaccuracies and exaggerations, but I think I agree with the outcome- based on the way the OP described their travel patterns, probably best to keep to a simple setup like Sapphire Preferred+Freedom Unlimited. But plenty of ways to do some light credit card bonus hunting, maybe 2-3 new cards a year across Chase and Amex, and not get that deep into the game.

And honestly 2-3 new cards a year is a pretty easy, simple setup to gather enough points for a few trips a year. Some may be keepers, some get closed after a year, but pretty straightforward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

This is just so...overwrought, dramatic and wrong, I don't know where to begin. I mean use points or don't, it's a hobby like any other, but don't make things up to support your point.

Yeah, a lot of inaccuracies and exaggerations, but I think I agree with the outcome- based on the way the OP described their travel patterns, probably best to keep to a simple setup like Sapphire Preferred+Freedom Unlimited. But plenty of ways to do some light credit card bonus hunting, maybe 2-3 new cards a year across Chase and Amex, and not get that deep into the game.

And honestly 2-3 new cards a year is a pretty easy, simple setup to gather enough points for a few trips a year. Some may be keepers, some get closed after a year, but pretty straightforward.

Agreed. But I also totally get the argument that for a lot of people managing that becomes just one more piece of work they have to do. Those who stay with it enjoy the game/puzzle aspect, it doesn't feel like as much work to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thx for all the input.
We are family of 4 - no one travels for work. We travel on almost any airline (not Frontier or super low budget) , happy to fly economy , minimal interest in business class/first class, neutral on lounge access as we always try to fly non stop. We travel every Christmas for a week from DC to skiing , travel for summer 1 or 2 trips , one domestic, one international to see family and friends. A few long weekend trips to NYC possibly. No preference for Marriott vs Hilton. Both kids are in HS so will be doing some college visits in next few years that would require flights. Thx!

OP, based on what you say in this poinst, I don't think you're the right mentality to take advantage of these points cards. To find those kinds of amazing reward flights you need to be incredibly dedicated to the game, prepared to open and close credit cards multiple times a year, keep track of them, be a heavy spender to accrue the minimum spend across multiple cards, be willing to pay annual fees that can be as much as a thousand dollars, be glued to the internet and notifications for reward flights, be prepared to pounce whenever an airline overs transfer bonuses (once you transfer the points are locked to that airline), and have plenty of flexibility on your travel dates and destinations and willingness to book a year out. If you only travel at Christmas or internationally during peak summer months, you're making it even harder.

You can get a standard Chase Sapphire and just let the miles accumulate and eventually be able to purchase reward flights, which will typically be the equivalent of the cash value of the tickets in points+fees. The real "reward" from travel cards are the sign up bonuses, aka 75,000 points is roughly the same as $750, but consider the opportunity costs of the card fees plus foregoing cash back cards at higher %s. The people who get the most out of the reward cards are high spenders who also spend highly on the premium reward card fees and people who use the points to get discounted business class seats, which will still cost more than paying economy in cash on the same flight. The cards are set up to reward specifically the high spenders because the whole point is to get the high spenders to use those cards, for that is where they make their money. They don't care about regular folks with average spending or travel habits, even normal UMC people.

If you're just a normal spender who only wants one or two credit cards, get the Chase Sapphire, let the points accumulate, and use it for domestic reward flights for the college visits or weekend breaks, or hotels. That's where you're likely to get the most value rather than chasing after elusive flights or organizing your travels around point flight availability, which is never going to be as friendly as you might think.

This is just so...overwrought, dramatic and wrong, I don't know where to begin. I mean use points or don't, it's a hobby like any other, but don't make things up to support your point.

Yeah, a lot of inaccuracies and exaggerations, but I think I agree with the outcome- based on the way the OP described their travel patterns, probably best to keep to a simple setup like Sapphire Preferred+Freedom Unlimited. But plenty of ways to do some light credit card bonus hunting, maybe 2-3 new cards a year across Chase and Amex, and not get that deep into the game.

And honestly 2-3 new cards a year is a pretty easy, simple setup to gather enough points for a few trips a year. Some may be keepers, some get closed after a year, but pretty straightforward.

Agreed. But I also totally get the argument that for a lot of people managing that becomes just one more piece of work they have to do. Those who stay with it enjoy the game/puzzle aspect, it doesn't feel like as much work to them.

Yes, you make a very good point. I think it's totally fine to say, you know what, this all sounds tedious to me, let's just find a well priced ticket. Go for it! (And frankly, the fewer people in the game, the better). You have to be of the right mindset to enjoy this.