Does it really get more contentious the higher you go in corporate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this hard to believe? I was in a job that paid pretty well. We had 800 people in firm. There are only at best 10 high paid jobs. The SVP/EVP/C level jobs.

So 790 people below you all want your jobs and more than happy to see you fail.

I adddition a new CEO comes in he wants his people and since there are only now 9 high paid jobs as he has one of 10 he now wants to force as many of the 9 our to bring his people in.

And if a merger the bigger company wants their people at top.

And if a financial crisis or scandal the top 10 heads might be chopped of to make board and investors happy.

Or simply you cant keep up or in my case just get a string of bad staff once that did me in. I got a bit lazy as had amazing staff. Switched jobs and the staff was so bad I spent the days putting out fire drills, hiring and firing, PIPs dealing with fall out but by time I got the great staff in and area running smooth the damage was done.

I’m in a similar situation with bad staff. What would you have done differently?

[Anonymous]

Yes my best friend (F) was VP at a massive company and her husband doesnt work. She just took a new job 2 levels down because the stress was killing her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP. You might like the book "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall. Or you can just read the AI summary, lol.

Moral Mazes: The World of Corporate Managers is a 1988 non-fiction book by sociologist Robert Jackall that examines the moral and social world of corporate managers in the United States. Based on fieldwork and interviews, the book argues that corporate bureaucracy shapes managers' moral consciousness, leading to a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset where personal integrity is often compromised for success. Key findings include the importance of public performance, the manipulation of symbols, and the intense competition for status within these organizations.

Key themes and findings

Bureaucracy and moral consciousness: Jackall argues that the structure of large corporations regularizes daily life, subordinates individuals to authority, and fosters a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset that can lead to a compromise of conventional morality.

Public performance: Managers must maintain a "cheerfully-bland public face" while hiding their true intentions and engaging in intense competition. This involves a form of "emotional labor" where they sublimate their own needs to meet the demands of others.

Pragmatism over principle: In this environment, moral questions are often treated as practical concerns or public relations issues, and success depends on a manager's ability to be a "dexterous symbol manipulator".

Competition and hierarchy: The corporate world creates an elaborate status hierarchy that fuels intense competition for prestige, making organizational rules and procedures paramount guides for behavior.

The "moral maze": The title reflects the idea that managers must navigate a complex and often contradictory environment where they are constantly making compromises to succeed, leading them to question how to maintain personal integrity.

Appreciate this very much. Thank you

PP. You're welcome. It is a book about old school F500 corporations but makes general sociological connections. It was recommended by a Purdue professor of engineering ethics who gave a talk at my employer's main R&D facility.

I liked the book a lot. It pretty much concludes that corporate life is inherently feudal.

My most successful peer female MBA went to a top b-school. I went to one in the Top 20. My career has flatlined. I have well-adjusted kids who love me and value my guidance. My peer is a VP and only has a dog. I've known her since kids were something we both spoke of having. I wouldn't trade places.

Your kids won't think you're a D unless you treat your family badly (spouse as well as kids). My kids were fairly accepting of having a working mom. They are both boys so I think it's good that my future DIL's will have had a path blazed for them IF they want to work. Kids know love when they see it.

I’m sure the successful VP would absolutely NOT want your life as you flatlined and having the dog is awesome! Sounds like she has a great life and values her freedom. She has won at life!👍

See, here's the problem, these people who claw their way to the top see life as a black or white / winner or loser game. To that end, they are willing to have no people in their lives who will complicate the goal of "winning". So they have a dog who basically presents no conflict, demands and low emotional expectations in their lives. It's the Mr. Potter character from It's a Wonderful Life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP. You might like the book "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall. Or you can just read the AI summary, lol.

Moral Mazes: The World of Corporate Managers is a 1988 non-fiction book by sociologist Robert Jackall that examines the moral and social world of corporate managers in the United States. Based on fieldwork and interviews, the book argues that corporate bureaucracy shapes managers' moral consciousness, leading to a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset where personal integrity is often compromised for success. Key findings include the importance of public performance, the manipulation of symbols, and the intense competition for status within these organizations.

Key themes and findings

Bureaucracy and moral consciousness: Jackall argues that the structure of large corporations regularizes daily life, subordinates individuals to authority, and fosters a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset that can lead to a compromise of conventional morality.

Public performance: Managers must maintain a "cheerfully-bland public face" while hiding their true intentions and engaging in intense competition. This involves a form of "emotional labor" where they sublimate their own needs to meet the demands of others.

Pragmatism over principle: In this environment, moral questions are often treated as practical concerns or public relations issues, and success depends on a manager's ability to be a "dexterous symbol manipulator".

Competition and hierarchy: The corporate world creates an elaborate status hierarchy that fuels intense competition for prestige, making organizational rules and procedures paramount guides for behavior.

The "moral maze": The title reflects the idea that managers must navigate a complex and often contradictory environment where they are constantly making compromises to succeed, leading them to question how to maintain personal integrity.

Appreciate this very much. Thank you

PP. You're welcome. It is a book about old school F500 corporations but makes general sociological connections. It was recommended by a Purdue professor of engineering ethics who gave a talk at my employer's main R&D facility.

I liked the book a lot. It pretty much concludes that corporate life is inherently feudal.

My most successful peer female MBA went to a top b-school. I went to one in the Top 20. My career has flatlined. I have well-adjusted kids who love me and value my guidance. My peer is a VP and only has a dog. I've known her since kids were something we both spoke of having. I wouldn't trade places.

Your kids won't think you're a D unless you treat your family badly (spouse as well as kids). My kids were fairly accepting of having a working mom. They are both boys so I think it's good that my future DIL's will have had a path blazed for them IF they want to work. Kids know love when they see it.

Highly doubt things will work out as you expect. I say that as my wifes Mom had a easy full time job growing up as was 9-5pm and five minutes from house. She resented her Mother a lot for working. Walking home from games by her self, being at games after school no one in stands, getting flu at school and having to walk home in rain deadly sick. Her Dad had a 50 hour a week job so not around much. Then her Mom had a third kid ten years younger than her and her Mom forced her and sister into beting the baby sitter for that kid all summer and after school while she worked. She swore she would never do that to her children. So she was a SAHM.

My wife thinks if her Mom was a SAHM she most likely would have not stayed home with kids. But her experience of her Mom doing it was awful.

Oh come on. Your wife is ridiculous or you don’t have the whole 9-5 story. Her mom worked 5 min from home, had mornings free to walk her daughter to school, and worked till 5pm. That’s pretty cushy. Clearly being the babysitter to the younger sibling did it. Blame the parental decisions here (like not signing up for camp) not the fact that mom worked. It takes effort to figure out what works best for the family and her parents didn’t figure it out. There are a bunch of other answers than must be a SAHM.

I think the mom was just self-absorbed. It wasn't the 9-5 job, nor the sibling, nor the lack of camp. All those were symptoms of a mother not prioritizing her children. One can be a WOHM and still prioritize the kids. This mom just didn't bother to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP. You might like the book "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall. Or you can just read the AI summary, lol.

Moral Mazes: The World of Corporate Managers is a 1988 non-fiction book by sociologist Robert Jackall that examines the moral and social world of corporate managers in the United States. Based on fieldwork and interviews, the book argues that corporate bureaucracy shapes managers' moral consciousness, leading to a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset where personal integrity is often compromised for success. Key findings include the importance of public performance, the manipulation of symbols, and the intense competition for status within these organizations.

Key themes and findings

Bureaucracy and moral consciousness: Jackall argues that the structure of large corporations regularizes daily life, subordinates individuals to authority, and fosters a pragmatic, goal-oriented mindset that can lead to a compromise of conventional morality.

Public performance: Managers must maintain a "cheerfully-bland public face" while hiding their true intentions and engaging in intense competition. This involves a form of "emotional labor" where they sublimate their own needs to meet the demands of others.

Pragmatism over principle: In this environment, moral questions are often treated as practical concerns or public relations issues, and success depends on a manager's ability to be a "dexterous symbol manipulator".

Competition and hierarchy: The corporate world creates an elaborate status hierarchy that fuels intense competition for prestige, making organizational rules and procedures paramount guides for behavior.

The "moral maze": The title reflects the idea that managers must navigate a complex and often contradictory environment where they are constantly making compromises to succeed, leading them to question how to maintain personal integrity.

Appreciate this very much. Thank you

PP. You're welcome. It is a book about old school F500 corporations but makes general sociological connections. It was recommended by a Purdue professor of engineering ethics who gave a talk at my employer's main R&D facility.

I liked the book a lot. It pretty much concludes that corporate life is inherently feudal.

My most successful peer female MBA went to a top b-school. I went to one in the Top 20. My career has flatlined. I have well-adjusted kids who love me and value my guidance. My peer is a VP and only has a dog. I've known her since kids were something we both spoke of having. I wouldn't trade places.

Your kids won't think you're a D unless you treat your family badly (spouse as well as kids). My kids were fairly accepting of having a working mom. They are both boys so I think it's good that my future DIL's will have had a path blazed for them IF they want to work. Kids know love when they see it.

I’m sure the successful VP would absolutely NOT want your life as you flatlined and having the dog is awesome! Sounds like she has a great life and values her freedom. She has won at life!👍

See, here's the problem, these people who claw their way to the top see life as a black or white / winner or loser game. To that end, they are willing to have no people in their lives who will complicate the goal of "winning". So they have a dog who basically presents no conflict, demands and low emotional expectations in their lives. It's the Mr. Potter character from It's a Wonderful Life.

Well...that was my example. I'm not sure why she doesn't have kids and because I knew her when we were early 30s and both talked about having kids, I assume it might be fertility problems and/or her husband wants to remain childfree. So I've never asked. Part of the reason she is successful is because she's intelligent but a good listener. Nobody feels threatened by her. I actually think she's risen because she is a palatable female exec (doesn't come across as b_tchy but is extremely smart and got good work experience along the way). I had the opportunity to meet the first two female VPs ever from my company, and their reminiscences strongly suggest that female likability is extremely critical at my company. Vs. "Getting results" or whatever it is that the powerful male jerks at my company do to get ahead.

I definitely think having kids prevents women from putting in lots of overtime that could help you rise. But a lot of what I see going on looks purely like affinity bias/guys hiring guys.