Any shared insights / lessons learned on designing best-for-kids custody situations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that best for you or him? They will get very little time with their dad.

OP here. Well the standard we are working for is best interest of the children so that is what I am trying to think about. And that includes taking into account what their lives were like before the split.

The percentages reflect overnights, not necessarily amount of time spent parenting. We could give the father a higher percentage but I’m not sure that will translate into more meaningful hours with him - it might just mean time with a babysitter. And it will mean more time for children in a commute to/from school or sports etc. In any event, they are spending more quality time with him now than they did before the split.

What sort of schedule gives the most bang for the buck/most meaningful hours? It seems weekend time is the most common solution to this plus maybe 1-2 school nights every 2 week cycle. I do like the idea of having him invested in some part of the school routines as well because otherwise it’s easy for him to completely check out of that.

I personally strongly prefer weekly schedules because they are so much easier to plan around and to remember. One school night and one weekend night is what we do (Thursday and Friday).

Also please stop trying to manipulate what he will and won’t check out of. You cannot control that and if that is your goal, this process could end up much harder and more expensive than it needs to be.

You need to switch your perspective to a legal one. He is entitled to seek 50% time or more under the law although a history of not doing childcare would make that a weak case. You are going to offer something that you think reflects a) what he will accept b) what is good for the kids and c) what you might get in court.

Drop all expectations of what kind of parent he will be or how you can shape his behavior.

[Anonymous]

Do what makes the most sense for now. You will likely have to revisit the arrangements once a new partner/new kids enter the picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do 70-30 and it works out really well for stability. I think a fixed weekly schedule is better for everyone. My ex has kid on Thurs night - Saturday dinner every week. We are very flexible about holidays etc. but probably better to start out with a schedule for holidays and vacations written out.

I agree with PPs that he needs to have a plan to reliably take his custody time and plan for contingencies. He needs to not have early work mornings on his days and needs to have childcare in place for after school. That said I don’t see how forcing 50-50 solves that problem.

This is OP. I live this schedule thank you for sharing! I had not thought about splitting every weekend because of how often the every other weekend is used. I like that it’s 1 school night, 1 weekend night, and 1 weekend day. And I think Friday mornings could be an easy thing for him to carve out.

It does mean that there is no built in “weekend away” for either a parent to take a break, or a parent to take kids somewhere together. But if we are cooperative and flexible we could handle those when they arise occasionally.

Yes on the weekend trip flexibility. Part of the deal is that since I get more weekly time, ex has his pick of vacation and holiday time. So in practice I always say yes if he wants to go on a trip. So far he has been ok with me doing the same. Although I would be fine with him taking longer vacations and summer time with the kid to make up for less school year time, so far he has not really done so. At the end of the day I think we both feel he gets the right amount of time (which is actually significant since he gets some key quality hours on Friday nights and all day Sat).

[Anonymous]

You may not get a lot of answers, there are some pretty nasty posters who tend to see children as objects/posessions instead of people. Anything less than 50/50 and the custodial parent is evil, blah blah.
I strongly encourage you to put your kids need for stability and consistency first. Give them a voice in the matter. This will change as time goes on, and be flexible and respectful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You may not get a lot of answers, there are some pretty nasty posters who tend to see children as objects/posessions instead of people. Anything less than 50/50 and the custodial parent is evil, blah blah.
I strongly encourage you to put your kids need for stability and consistency first. Give them a voice in the matter. This will change as time goes on, and be flexible and respectful.

NP and I agree with the philosophy of this response but I’m going through a divorce now and am finding that how stability and consistency is evaluated is really luck of the draw, and if mediators or courts are involved kids don’t really get a voice until they’re 16 or 17. Even if you present your plan as one that is in the best interests of your kids and the one that will continue the status quo and provide stability, you’re at risk in a system that is going to favor 50/50 and both parents regardless of whether one parent can actually provide their 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are the kids resisting being at the fathers?

Kids’ ages? Genders?

Is he the 30/20?

I think there is more to what you are saying. If both parents are on board with the arrangement then it’s really simple to file a mutually-agreed upon parenting plan with specifics or even one without any specifics depending on your jurisdiction. I’m guessing you actually have worries about your DH’s ability to commit to a real plan and questions about your kids’ resistance to being with him. I wouldn’t suggest a full parenting evaluation or whatever it’s called in your state, but what’s really going on here? Is your DH pushing for more time than he can reasonably commit to and your kids don’t want to be with him, and DH expects you to flex around his schedule? If so, I’m currently in that situation and a casual understanding is just not going to cut it. “Cooperative” and “coparenting” are not compatible with a parent who has an inflexible and unpredictable schedule and is typically just marketing language from that person or their attorney to get a more favorable outcome.

Sorry to sound paranoid but you’re raising a lot of red flags here.

I agree with this pp. I suspect OP has dressed this up to describe a cooperative scenario, but really, it sounds like the father is getting screwed. He's in an apartment while SHE has the house? And she's presenting 80/20 or 70/30 as what's in the best interest of the kids, probably knowing full well the impact on child support and his finances? That doesn't sound equitable or in the best interest of the kids at all. The kids deserve the same living situation with each parent and equal time with each parent. That means sell the house, each buy or rent comparable properties, and split 50/50. I have a feeling what she's presenting as "our" thinking is really HER thinking and she's either assuming he'll go along with it or will try to pressure him to do so. And if her assertion is that he has full access to the kids under this 80/20 or 70/30, then just go with the 50/50. Unless she's waving child support or something.

As a very involved father with a similar work arrangement as being described, I would never have agreed to this arrangement. We did do 50/50 on paper but in reality it ended up being more like 90/10 with me as the 90, as my girls were adolescents and decided they preferred living with me.

I should have been so lucky as to be divorcing you instead

[Anonymous]

We've always done two weeknights with dad and one weekend night. Typically MWF or T/Th/Sat depending on the sports and other activities that season. Consistency is key so they know what to expect. We change it up seasonally if it makes sense - like if there's a late sports practice she typically stays with me due to the longer drive to dad's, or if he likes handling soccer, he'll have her for those practices and more games. If one of us has a scheduling issue, the other one fills in.

[Anonymous]

We do 3 days on, 2 off, 2-3 on. Typically the 2 off we would switch based on my work commitments. It's worked for us for 13 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've always done two weeknights with dad and one weekend night. Typically MWF or T/Th/Sat depending on the sports and other activities that season. Consistency is key so they know what to expect. We change it up seasonally if it makes sense - like if there's a late sports practice she typically stays with me due to the longer drive to dad's, or if he likes handling soccer, he'll have her for those practices and more games. If one of us has a scheduling issue, the other one fills in.

NP in a high conflict divorce and wondering: were you always cooperative and able to flex custody like this, or was it an evolution? And if so, how did that play out?

My kids will definitely need a future scenario like the one you describe but I can’t imagine STBX being open to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would consider the least disruptive option for your kids- that probably looks like summer and extended holidays with dad, rest of time with mom. This is pretty close to a 70-30 split and keeps kids from switching homes during the school year which is so disruptive. It’s hard in the parents to miss long stretches with their kids but it should is about the kids stabilitynot the parents feelings.

That's not allowing dad to parent. Its also hard on the kids to lose a parent. Parents divorce each other, not the kids. Kids will adapt. They need both paernts equally.

The mom in this scenario is not “allowing” the dad anything. This is a schedule that they mutually agreed on likely because dad admits he just doesn’t want to do equal parenting. A divorce is not actually the time to teach dad to step up or to change pre-existing patterns. Custody is about the best interests of the child and that generally means taking past behavior into account and often giving the children a stable home base.

You cannot fully look at a set up as a married couple as it’s a different situation. Kids in divorce have two homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've always done two weeknights with dad and one weekend night. Typically MWF or T/Th/Sat depending on the sports and other activities that season. Consistency is key so they know what to expect. We change it up seasonally if it makes sense - like if there's a late sports practice she typically stays with me due to the longer drive to dad's, or if he likes handling soccer, he'll have her for those practices and more games. If one of us has a scheduling issue, the other one fills in.

Do you live really close by? I feel like my kid would hate switching that often but at the end of the day, what he likes is consistency too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've always done two weeknights with dad and one weekend night. Typically MWF or T/Th/Sat depending on the sports and other activities that season. Consistency is key so they know what to expect. We change it up seasonally if it makes sense - like if there's a late sports practice she typically stays with me due to the longer drive to dad's, or if he likes handling soccer, he'll have her for those practices and more games. If one of us has a scheduling issue, the other one fills in.

NP in a high conflict divorce and wondering: were you always cooperative and able to flex custody like this, or was it an evolution? And if so, how did that play out?

My kids will definitely need a future scenario like the one you describe but I can’t imagine STBX being open to it.

DP. My ex and I are high conflict but only if there actually is conflict, if that makes sense. In other words if there is a trigger everything goes to h*ll but otherwise we can be cordial. There are a few subject matter areas that are totally toxic but other areas where we have little problem letting the other person “win.” So for me (and for him I think) neither of us hates the other enough not to say, be perfectly fine if ex wants to take kid for an extra day for an event, or if ex take two Thanksgivings in a row.

That said … for me this only works because I feel that the basic schedule is good for me and good for kid. If ex wanted to totally redo the schedule then I would have a hard time with that. but flexibility within the schedule has been no problem so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've always done two weeknights with dad and one weekend night. Typically MWF or T/Th/Sat depending on the sports and other activities that season. Consistency is key so they know what to expect. We change it up seasonally if it makes sense - like if there's a late sports practice she typically stays with me due to the longer drive to dad's, or if he likes handling soccer, he'll have her for those practices and more games. If one of us has a scheduling issue, the other one fills in.

NP in a high conflict divorce and wondering: were you always cooperative and able to flex custody like this, or was it an evolution? And if so, how did that play out?

My kids will definitely need a future scenario like the one you describe but I can’t imagine STBX being open to it.

DP. My ex and I are high conflict but only if there actually is conflict, if that makes sense. In other words if there is a trigger everything goes to h*ll but otherwise we can be cordial. There are a few subject matter areas that are totally toxic but other areas where we have little problem letting the other person “win.” So for me (and for him I think) neither of us hates the other enough not to say, be perfectly fine if ex wants to take kid for an extra day for an event, or if ex take two Thanksgivings in a row.

That said … for me this only works because I feel that the basic schedule is good for me and good for kid. If ex wanted to totally redo the schedule then I would have a hard time with that. but flexibility within the schedule has been no problem so far.

Also wanted to add … except for at the very beginning, we are both very reliable in keeping the schedule (other than when we flex) and there’s a lot of predictability. if one of us was unreliable or abusing the flexibility then I don’t think it would work. My kid also complained a lot at first about going to his other parent’s house but I was very careful not to fall for that or exploit it once I figured out it wasn’t really substantive. I think other types of high conflict parents could make a big deal out of that - but I don’t have it in me. that is to say, I think one key to flexibility (even if there is a lot of conflict) is both parents feeling like they are respected and being treated fairly. That doesn’t necessarily mean 50-50 though.

[Anonymous]

My kids are in their late teens now, but my parents divorced when my 4 siblings and I were in late elementary school. The best thing they did was move within 1/2 mile away, allowing us to walk freely between homes. They were not homeowners, which in some ways made it easier, they rented apartments in the same/adjacent neighborhoods. Recently a new family bought the house in our current neighborhood, 2nd marriage 4 kids, a few months later, the dad bought the house around the corner. It had been sitting on market for a long time, way overpriced, he must have negotiated them down and still probably overpaid but I have a ton of respect for him. I see the kids skipping back and forth like I did growing up. Life is complicated. Try to simplify as much as you can is my suggestion. You’ll blink and the kids will be off to college. Make the best of a not so rosy situation. Good luck !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would consider the least disruptive option for your kids- that probably looks like summer and extended holidays with dad, rest of time with mom. This is pretty close to a 70-30 split and keeps kids from switching homes during the school year which is so disruptive. It’s hard in the parents to miss long stretches with their kids but it should is about the kids stabilitynot the parents feelings.

That's not allowing dad to parent. Its also hard on the kids to lose a parent. Parents divorce each other, not the kids. Kids will adapt. They need both paernts equally.

The mom in this scenario is not “allowing” the dad anything. This is a schedule that they mutually agreed on likely because dad admits he just doesn’t want to do equal parenting. A divorce is not actually the time to teach dad to step up or to change pre-existing patterns. Custody is about the best interests of the child and that generally means taking past behavior into account and often giving the children a stable home base.

You cannot fully look at a set up as a married couple as it’s a different situation. Kids in divorce have two homes.

Yes you can - and judges take into account who did the child rearing during the marriage in determining custody.