Just figured I'd share because it might benefit lots of folks here...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

So you know kids who were rejected from UVA but got in to top 10 privates? Mmm hmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. Any college admissions officer would say that the kid who stands out at elite colleges is the one who took AP Chem while at the same time taking doing the independent music thing.

This actually isn't true. In most cases, the kid who stands out is the one with a unique story. Right now, a lot of kids have the same (overachieving, overtaxed) story.

but hasn't this been true for 10 years now? this is what they call the spike. this is why kids start fake NFPs or write AI-generated self published books on amazon. makes them sound deep into a passion! and colleges were falling for the NFPs for a while - and the books now.

Yes, but the point (I think) is, don't actually do all the other STEM AP stuff if you are deep into colonial women's history. Do the minimal amount of necessary and then do buckets and buckets of extra on the colonial history front? So yes its a spike, but showing initiative to double up on history electives could help and you don't need AP physics...Honors might be enough?

There's a guy on FB (private counselor) who has a whole thing that goes through why this is a better strategy and shows "passion" and drive. And helps not make you look like a bot.

Don't know if this is actually true? Or at least not across the board. A former T10 AO (from another thread here) on Reddit said the below this week:

"She seems to think that prioritizing rigor is aligned mostly with major interests, at least in the videos I've seen.

That's not right. We value rigor across the board, no matter major preferences. Our pools are so competitive that I've gotten accustomed, as have other AOs, to seeing the most rigorous curriculum in all subjects. A humanities kid still challenging themselves with calculus or above. A STEM kid taking AP Lit.

There is no AO that gives a shit about passion projects. We don't even use that term in the admissions office. This passion project idea is just born out of the college consulting industry, with consultants who are trying to sell that this is a golden ticket. And it's smart, I suppose, because they take advantage of an incredibly opaque process with students that don't know any better. But when I was reading files, when I was in committees, I can assure you, most students did not have a passion project, and if a student did, barely any mention of it came up in the discussion of the student's admissibility.

Wrt a central theme in the entire, this is a bit more nuanced. You can have one, but it's not necessary. A lot of people push this because they think it's easier for an AO to identify what's special about a student, so they then can pitch the student much more easily in committee. This works for some students, doesn't work for others. The way we select students is simply looking for the strongest in the pool relative to others. So you can have a great "theme" to your app, but the kid that has no theme, that is more dynamic, has the pieces we're looking for as far as priorities and has strong essays that demonstrate who they are without trying to string everything together coherently can STILL get in. And in fact, they do at higher quantities than someone who is trying to weave a "theme" throughout the app."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1lxo48y/comment/n39q77w/

Rigor is very important. In our school, 4.0 uw no rigor goes to state flagship. 3.8 uw high rigor has a shot at T5. 3.7 uw high rigor has a shot at T10.

Rigor, GPA, Test score, in that order.

[Anonymous]

The only effective advice she gave you was that there are so many high stat applicants and so many applicants per school that it seems like picking rabbits from a hat. For the majority of applicants, the essay is like a bell curve. For a small percentage it will knock them out of the pool or put them above their rating but for the majority it is still neutral. The same is true for for letter of recommendation.

What’s happening now with so many applicants and yield being tied to rankings which impacts bond ratings, schools are using technology to sift through grabbing demographic data to pick people based on factors your kid can’t control. Your zip code, how kids with a similar set of key word hits performed in the previous cycle, your financial status, yes your race, your parents education, your parents profession, your extracurriculars, etc etc.

Your high stats, hitting the threshold for ECs, and essays that don’t knock you out , get you put into a cohort of qualified candidates. This is a very, very large bucket. The next buckets are subsets with targeted qualities that your kid doesn’t control..low income, first generation, ethnicity, legacy, rural, veteran etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only effective advice she gave you was that there are so many high stat applicants and so many applicants per school that it seems like picking rabbits from a hat. For the majority of applicants, the essay is like a bell curve. For a small percentage it will knock them out of the pool or put them above their rating but for the majority it is still neutral. The same is true for for letter of recommendation.

What’s happening now with so many applicants and yield being tied to rankings which impacts bond ratings, schools are using technology to sift through grabbing demographic data to pick people based on factors your kid can’t control. Your zip code, how kids with a similar set of key word hits performed in the previous cycle, your financial status, yes your race, your parents education, your parents profession, your extracurriculars, etc etc.

Your high stats, hitting the threshold for ECs, and essays that don’t knock you out , get you put into a cohort of qualified candidates. This is a very, very large bucket. The next buckets are subsets with targeted qualities that your kid doesn’t control..low income, first generation, ethnicity, legacy, rural, veteran etc.

It certainly doesn't work that way. They are evaluating kids in the context of the high school. Your school sends 10 kids to Penn each year, they are selecting these 10 from about 50 applicants in your school. They don't put the 50 applicants into a "very very large bucket". No, that's not what happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

So you know kids who were rejected from UVA but got in to top 10 privates? Mmm hmm.

NP.
OOS yes. Private HS - west coast.
Into Northwestern and Penn.
Rejected UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

It's not a "public flagship formula." UVA holds joint admissions webinars with Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Wellesley (see https://admission.virginia.edu/hpuwy) and they all say this. It's insane to suggest that UVA's admissions formula is more demanding than Harvard's regardless.

College admissions 101: you don't skimp on the rigor of core subjects (math, science, English, history, foreign language) for the sake of electives, and you don't skimp on one core subject to double up on another either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

That's one school and one person. I don't think you "skimp" on them. Of course they matter. But if you want to stand out, show demonstrated commitment to your area of focus with the willingness and courage (and it is courage) to be decisive about where you spend your time.

Right. And you can do that and still take the toughest course load possible. THAT'S how you stand out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

It's not a "public flagship formula." UVA holds joint admissions webinars with Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Wellesley (see https://admission.virginia.edu/hpuwy) and they all say this. It's insane to suggest that UVA's admissions formula is more demanding than Harvard's regardless.

College admissions 101: you don't skimp on the rigor of core subjects (math, science, English, history, foreign language) for the sake of electives, and you don't skimp on one core subject to double up on another either.

True. Advice otherwise would be misleading to younger parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

That's one school and one person. I don't think you "skimp" on them. Of course they matter. But if you want to stand out, show demonstrated commitment to your area of focus with the willingness and courage (and it is courage) to be decisive about where you spend your time.

Right. And you can do that and still take the toughest course load possible. THAT'S how you stand out.

No, that isn't true. This is changing. It might be comfortable to think that but it's not how it works any longer!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone has all APs, so stand out by not having all APs and doing something else?

That might be fine for the selective schools, but like a pp said, for the most selectives, you should probably aim for the APs and the interesting experience.

lol This is so dcum. Their snowflakes are not competitive, so they disparage the competitive ones.

Oh dear. "Competitive" applies in basketball games. This is college. These are kids. Life is long. Lighten up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

That's one school and one person. I don't think you "skimp" on them. Of course they matter. But if you want to stand out, show demonstrated commitment to your area of focus with the willingness and courage (and it is courage) to be decisive about where you spend your time.

Right. And you can do that and still take the toughest course load possible. THAT'S how you stand out.

No, that isn't true. This is changing. It might be comfortable to think that but it's not how it works any longer!!

You're dreaming if you think that. Colleges will always value the rigor of the high school record above everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. Any college admissions officer would say that the kid who stands out at elite colleges is the one who took AP Chem while at the same time taking doing the independent music thing.

This actually isn't true. In most cases, the kid who stands out is the one with a unique story. Right now, a lot of kids have the same (overachieving, overtaxed) story.

but hasn't this been true for 10 years now? this is what they call the spike. this is why kids start fake NFPs or write AI-generated self published books on amazon. makes them sound deep into a passion! and colleges were falling for the NFPs for a while - and the books now.

Yes, but the point (I think) is, don't actually do all the other STEM AP stuff if you are deep into colonial women's history. Do the minimal amount of necessary and then do buckets and buckets of extra on the colonial history front? So yes its a spike, but showing initiative to double up on history electives could help and you don't need AP physics...Honors might be enough?

There's a guy on FB (private counselor) who has a whole thing that goes through why this is a better strategy and shows "passion" and drive. And helps not make you look like a bot.

There is no AO that gives a shit about passion projects. We don't even use that term in the admissions office. This passion project idea is just born out of the college consulting industry, with consultants who are trying to sell that this is a golden ticket. And it's smart, I suppose, because they take advantage of an incredibly opaque process with students that don't know any better. But when I was reading files, when I was in committees, I can assure you, most students did not have a passion project, and if a student did, barely any mention of it came up in the discussion of the student's admissibility.

The college consulting industry is pushing that because ...
The rigor, the gpa, the test score are determined by the kids themselves. There is nothing much consultants can do to enhance that profile, other than recommedning private tutors. And rigor, gpa, test score are the most important part of the application.
That leave the consultants' value in doubt. For kids that are weak in stats, they have to do something to have the appearance that they are adding value (same for high stats kids). Passion project, intersection woodoo, expensive packages of summer programs, these are things they try to sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

It's not a "public flagship formula." UVA holds joint admissions webinars with Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Wellesley (see https://admission.virginia.edu/hpuwy) and they all say this. It's insane to suggest that UVA's admissions formula is more demanding than Harvard's regardless.

College admissions 101: you don't skimp on the rigor of core subjects (math, science, English, history, foreign language) for the sake of electives, and you don't skimp on one core subject to double up on another either.

True. Advice otherwise would be misleading to younger parents.

I don't think anyone is recommending you skip a core subject. Just that you may not need AP chem and can do honors Chem if you are an archeology student aiming for Brown. Same if you are an art history major - take all core subjects ALL years, but no need for AP in all.
At our school, this kind of thing only works for non-STEM majors, though.
Also, no need to go down in rigor if your kid can easily get all As in the APs. This is really only for those kids that might end up with a B in those classes. The point is to find the rigor elsewhere.
There's a NY college counselor who definitely pushes kids in this direction and heavily pushes majors like: Anthro, Soc, Arch, Urban Studies, Medieval Studies, Folklore, Egyptology, Celtic Languages, Bagpiping (CMU!), Popular Music.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

Public flagships have a formula. So does UNC. and UT.
I wouldn't take that to mean that's what private T10 are looking for.

It's not a "public flagship formula." UVA holds joint admissions webinars with Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Wellesley (see https://admission.virginia.edu/hpuwy) and they all say this. It's insane to suggest that UVA's admissions formula is more demanding than Harvard's regardless.

College admissions 101: you don't skimp on the rigor of core subjects (math, science, English, history, foreign language) for the sake of electives, and you don't skimp on one core subject to double up on another either.

True. Advice otherwise would be misleading to younger parents.

I don't think anyone is recommending you skip a core subject. Just that you may not need AP chem and can do honors Chem if you are an archeology student aiming for Brown. Same if you are an art history major - take all core subjects ALL years, but no need for AP in all.
At our school, this kind of thing only works for non-STEM majors, though.
Also, no need to go down in rigor if your kid can easily get all As in the APs. This is really only for those kids that might end up with a B in those classes. The point is to find the rigor elsewhere.
There's a NY college counselor who definitely pushes kids in this direction and heavily pushes majors like: Anthro, Soc, Arch, Urban Studies, Medieval Studies, Folklore, Egyptology, Celtic Languages, Bagpiping (CMU!), Popular Music.

Well, my kid is applying as a business major and he has had 3 counselors tell him choosing APES over AP Bio/AP Chem/AP Physics will be a determinant to his application. This is after taking honors Bio/honors chem/honors physics. They ALL said APES is not considered very rigorous. Environmental science is interesting to a lot of kids, but god forbid kids pick a class they are actually excited about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I’m specifically thinking of Dean J at the University of Virginia, who has made clear time and again that your core subjects are considered extremely important regardless of interest or intended major. You don’t skimp on them for electives.

That's one school and one person. I don't think you "skimp" on them. Of course they matter. But if you want to stand out, show demonstrated commitment to your area of focus with the willingness and courage (and it is courage) to be decisive about where you spend your time.

Isn’t this just a good thing to learn to do even if it isn’t about college admissions? Figure out what matters to you and devote your time and energy to that.