Article in Bethesda magazine about magnet programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I gave up a long time ago on the magnets. We supplement and enrich at home, and my kids are big fish in little ponds at their home schools.

Yeah, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns with magnet programs. If they're more than 15 minutes away from home, don't do it. Not worth the headache in extra travel time. Most students who are sitting on buses for 45 minutes to an hour just to go to a magnet school would be better off doing what you're suggesting.

PP you replied to. Exactly. They enjoyed the CES, which was near our house, but then commute and college admissions issues made us think twice about middle and high school magnets, which are far away from our house. What my kids missed out on was the cohort and some inspiring teachers - but they've each found a few similar souls at their home schools, and some excellent teachers (also some terrible ones).

I don't want to discourage anyone from applying and attending! My kids are 15 and 20 now, so we have no skin in the magnet game anymore. But let's just say it's not necessarily a no-brainer to get into a magnet...

We opted against applying to RM for these reasons. If I had a stem genius kid, I think Blair would be worth it but I felt sticking with our home W school was otherwise the better choice for our family. While I wish the writing instruction were stronger, there’s no lack of work load challenge with dozens of APs on offer. APs are also sometimes a better choice than IB to obtain college credit, though they shouldn’t be. At times my son, now in 10th, wishes he had pursued RM for the cohort, but on the whole I think we’re all happier with neighborhood friends and bus service. If our home school weren’t as strong, we’d have pursued RM but with two commuting parents, we’ve never pursued any of the special programs like immersion schools. I hope the district doesn’t mess with Blair’s stem magnet.

Agree on all point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what they are proposing is to make more magnets, but also restrict access to those zones.

So, if you look at what they started to do with IB, they created regional IB programs but kept RMIB as the flagship.

This has been unevenly successful, because the "best" kids still went to RMIB and there were not enough kids at the regional programs to create a strong cohort.

So it will be interesting to see if they learn from that, or double down.

And keeping RMIB as County wide instead of regional is part of the problem and makes little sense. The idea of regional IB programs makes sense because the goal is to serve all students regardless of area of the county. I like the idea of regions with a standard offering of programs. Nod a program is going to be county wide it needs to be because the facilities have been built to sustain such a program that might be cost prohibitive to build out in 6 or more regions.

If you had a lot of high performing kids equally spread out across the district, I might agree with you, but that's not how it really is. Certain regional programs will be weaker than others, and they won't be able to offer the same IB courses across all the different regional programs simply because of demand.

The idea that we don’t have lots of high performing kids across the district is a myth. We do. There are kids in every school taking honors/AP/IB(if offered) who are not in magnet or specialized programs. What is missing is the rigor and support from ES all the way through. Which is why an ES analysis is planned following the Secondary. Further, there is always going to be 2nd or later place. That doesn’t mean that a program isn’t quality.

If you look at both the numbers of students in AP classes and the resulting scores at some of these schools, it is apparent that some clusters will not have sufficient numbers of students to offer a wide range of advanced classes. It is just the truth.

They are not offered at out school. Zero science Ap classes and math only goes through calc and kids are discouraged in taking anything higher and they push kids on slower tracks. If they offered them, schools would be more diverse if kids could stay at the home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on what they have talked aboiut in Board meetings, I don't think this is just about magnet programs. It's also about non-magnets housed in local schools. For example, WJ has APEX, B-CC has IB, there are others as well. These are not open to students outside the school.

WJ Apex only has three cohorted classes - Honors English 9 and 10 and Honors Bio. (Which is nice at an 3,000 student school.) Otherwise, the program now just requires additional APs (the evening seminar and required specific tracks disappeared a few years ago). I can’t see moving to WJ for this program unless you just prefer WJ to your home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what they are proposing is to make more magnets, but also restrict access to those zones.

So, if you look at what they started to do with IB, they created regional IB programs but kept RMIB as the flagship.

This has been unevenly successful, because the "best" kids still went to RMIB and there were not enough kids at the regional programs to create a strong cohort.

So it will be interesting to see if they learn from that, or double down.

And keeping RMIB as County wide instead of regional is part of the problem and makes little sense. The idea of regional IB programs makes sense because the goal is to serve all students regardless of area of the county. I like the idea of regions with a standard offering of programs. Nod a program is going to be county wide it needs to be because the facilities have been built to sustain such a program that might be cost prohibitive to build out in 6 or more regions.

If you had a lot of high performing kids equally spread out across the district, I might agree with you, but that's not how it really is. Certain regional programs will be weaker than others, and they won't be able to offer the same IB courses across all the different regional programs simply because of demand.

The idea that we don’t have lots of high performing kids across the district is a myth. We do. There are kids in every school taking honors/AP/IB(if offered) who are not in magnet or specialized programs. What is missing is the rigor and support from ES all the way through. Which is why an ES analysis is planned following the Secondary. Further, there is always going to be 2nd or later place. That doesn’t mean that a program isn’t quality.

If you look at both the numbers of students in AP classes and the resulting scores at some of these schools, it is apparent that some clusters will not have sufficient numbers of students to offer a wide range of advanced classes. It is just the truth.

They are not offered at out school. Zero science Ap classes and math only goes through calc and kids are discouraged in taking anything higher and they push kids on slower tracks. If they offered them, schools would be more diverse if kids could stay at the home school.

Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

Also Kennedy, I believe -- probably because they are both IB schools, and there aren't enough students / teachers to offer both IB and AP sciences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on what they have talked aboiut in Board meetings, I don't think this is just about magnet programs. It's also about non-magnets housed in local schools. For example, WJ has APEX, B-CC has IB, there are others as well. These are not open to students outside the school.

WJ Apex only has three cohorted classes - Honors English 9 and 10 and Honors Bio. (Which is nice at an 3,000 student school.) Otherwise, the program now just requires additional APs (the evening seminar and required specific tracks disappeared a few years ago). I can’t see moving to WJ for this program unless you just prefer WJ to your home school.

That's because they ruined it 4-5 years ago by allowing everyone in. It used to be a test-in program, and now it's open to all with 3.x GPA

The cohort used to be of the top students, now it's not. The HS class of 2023 was the last cohort of test in students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on what they have talked aboiut in Board meetings, I don't think this is just about magnet programs. It's also about non-magnets housed in local schools. For example, WJ has APEX, B-CC has IB, there are others as well. These are not open to students outside the school.

WJ Apex only has three cohorted classes - Honors English 9 and 10 and Honors Bio. (Which is nice at an 3,000 student school.) Otherwise, the program now just requires additional APs (the evening seminar and required specific tracks disappeared a few years ago). I can’t see moving to WJ for this program unless you just prefer WJ to your home school.

I'm just saying they are looking at those types of programs too to try to ensure that there is equitable access. It's not just application magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

Also Kennedy, I believe -- probably because they are both IB schools, and there aren't enough students / teachers to offer both IB and AP sciences

Which might be fine if they were certain to offer the HL classes that also might count for college credit and/or might provide the more rigorous and interesting experience. But...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what they are proposing is to make more magnets, but also restrict access to those zones.

So, if you look at what they started to do with IB, they created regional IB programs but kept RMIB as the flagship.

This has been unevenly successful, because the "best" kids still went to RMIB and there were not enough kids at the regional programs to create a strong cohort.

So it will be interesting to see if they learn from that, or double down.

And keeping RMIB as County wide instead of regional is part of the problem and makes little sense. The idea of regional IB programs makes sense because the goal is to serve all students regardless of area of the county. I like the idea of regions with a standard offering of programs. Nod a program is going to be county wide it needs to be because the facilities have been built to sustain such a program that might be cost prohibitive to build out in 6 or more regions.

If you had a lot of high performing kids equally spread out across the district, I might agree with you, but that's not how it really is. Certain regional programs will be weaker than others, and they won't be able to offer the same IB courses across all the different regional programs simply because of demand.

The idea that we don’t have lots of high performing kids across the district is a myth. We do. There are kids in every school taking honors/AP/IB(if offered) who are not in magnet or specialized programs. What is missing is the rigor and support from ES all the way through. Which is why an ES analysis is planned following the Secondary. Further, there is always going to be 2nd or later place. That doesn’t mean that a program isn’t quality.

If you look at both the numbers of students in AP classes and the resulting scores at some of these schools, it is apparent that some clusters will not have sufficient numbers of students to offer a wide range of advanced classes. It is just the truth.

They are not offered at out school. Zero science Ap classes and math only goes through calc and kids are discouraged in taking anything higher and they push kids on slower tracks. If they offered them, schools would be more diverse if kids could stay at the home school.

We understand your point. But you must understand that the school cannot offer a full range of courses for the 10 kids who are prepared. A regional center, sure, but what you want is not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

That’s an IB school. Do they offer comparable HL courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

Also Kennedy, I believe -- probably because they are both IB schools, and there aren't enough students / teachers to offer both IB and AP sciences

They can cut back on the IB and offer AP but the principals refuse.

Einstein also doesn't have math past Calc BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

That’s an IB school. Do they offer comparable HL courses?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what they are proposing is to make more magnets, but also restrict access to those zones.

So, if you look at what they started to do with IB, they created regional IB programs but kept RMIB as the flagship.

This has been unevenly successful, because the "best" kids still went to RMIB and there were not enough kids at the regional programs to create a strong cohort.

So it will be interesting to see if they learn from that, or double down.

And keeping RMIB as County wide instead of regional is part of the problem and makes little sense. The idea of regional IB programs makes sense because the goal is to serve all students regardless of area of the county. I like the idea of regions with a standard offering of programs. Nod a program is going to be county wide it needs to be because the facilities have been built to sustain such a program that might be cost prohibitive to build out in 6 or more regions.

If you had a lot of high performing kids equally spread out across the district, I might agree with you, but that's not how it really is. Certain regional programs will be weaker than others, and they won't be able to offer the same IB courses across all the different regional programs simply because of demand.

The idea that we don’t have lots of high performing kids across the district is a myth. We do. There are kids in every school taking honors/AP/IB(if offered) who are not in magnet or specialized programs. What is missing is the rigor and support from ES all the way through. Which is why an ES analysis is planned following the Secondary. Further, there is always going to be 2nd or later place. That doesn’t mean that a program isn’t quality.

If you look at both the numbers of students in AP classes and the resulting scores at some of these schools, it is apparent that some clusters will not have sufficient numbers of students to offer a wide range of advanced classes. It is just the truth.

They are not offered at out school. Zero science Ap classes and math only goes through calc and kids are discouraged in taking anything higher and they push kids on slower tracks. If they offered them, schools would be more diverse if kids could stay at the home school.

We understand your point. But you must understand that the school cannot offer a full range of courses for the 10 kids who are prepared. A regional center, sure, but what you want is not going to happen.

Then, they shouldn't start kids in Algebra in 6-7 if they cannot have enough math classes to graduate. They could prepare more kids but choose not to. More kids would attend the schools if they offered it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Which MCPS high schools don’t offer any science APs?

Einstein. No AP Bio, Chem, or Physics

Also Kennedy, I believe -- probably because they are both IB schools, and there aren't enough students / teachers to offer both IB and AP sciences

They can cut back on the IB and offer AP but the principals refuse.

Einstein also doesn't have math past Calc BC.

They're an IB school. They're not going to "cut back on the IB."