Why does MCPS do both MCAP and MAP testing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCAP grading takes longer because it includes writing. MAP is only multiple choice questions. As a teacher, at least on the secondary level, I think MCAP results are more meaningful.

I’m elementary and we definitely look at things differently, but I’m genuinely curious how they are more meaningful to you?

I work in a Title 1 with over 75% receiving ELD services, and MCAP is written at an above grade level level (trying to test addition with a wordy and confusing word problem that the kids can’t even read or understand, and testing reading comprehension with questions that are so confusing that are years above grade level). At least Map is adaptive and tests them where they’re at. When they finish, the kids get immediate satisfaction from their growth.

I was testing a small group this week for MCAP math and they all “finished” in 15-20 minutes. When you ask them why, it’s because they can’t read the questions (!!) so they just guess the multiple choice and type random things in the text boxes. It doesn’t get more waste of time than that! Tests should start below grade level, build to grade level, then extend above to see where kids are compared to the standard. As it is, there are only about 10 questions per section and they are all so complicated and high.

But I’m thinking it must be different for high school? Or maybe different for a higher school with fewer language needs? You genuinely shocked me by saying MCAP is more beneficial!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAP grading takes longer because it includes writing. MAP is only multiple choice questions. As a teacher, at least on the secondary level, I think MCAP results are more meaningful.

I’m elementary and we definitely look at things differently, but I’m genuinely curious how they are more meaningful to you?

I work in a Title 1 with over 75% receiving ELD services, and MCAP is written at an above grade level level (trying to test addition with a wordy and confusing word problem that the kids can’t even read or understand, and testing reading comprehension with questions that are so confusing that are years above grade level). At least Map is adaptive and tests them where they’re at. When they finish, the kids get immediate satisfaction from their growth.

I was testing a small group this week for MCAP math and they all “finished” in 15-20 minutes. When you ask them why, it’s because they can’t read the questions (!!) so they just guess the multiple choice and type random things in the text boxes. It doesn’t get more waste of time than that! Tests should start below grade level, build to grade level, then extend above to see where kids are compared to the standard. As it is, there are only about 10 questions per section and they are all so complicated and high.

But I’m thinking it must be different for high school? Or maybe different for a higher school with fewer language needs? You genuinely shocked me by saying MCAP is more beneficial!

Is MCAP above grade level or are the kiddos below grade level? MCAP doesn’t begin until 3rd grade correct? Where the expectation would be kids can read and should be doing word problems in math regularly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAP grading takes longer because it includes writing. MAP is only multiple choice questions. As a teacher, at least on the secondary level, I think MCAP results are more meaningful.

I’m elementary and we definitely look at things differently, but I’m genuinely curious how they are more meaningful to you?

I work in a Title 1 with over 75% receiving ELD services, and MCAP is written at an above grade level level (trying to test addition with a wordy and confusing word problem that the kids can’t even read or understand, and testing reading comprehension with questions that are so confusing that are years above grade level). At least Map is adaptive and tests them where they’re at. When they finish, the kids get immediate satisfaction from their growth.

I was testing a small group this week for MCAP math and they all “finished” in 15-20 minutes. When you ask them why, it’s because they can’t read the questions (!!) so they just guess the multiple choice and type random things in the text boxes. It doesn’t get more waste of time than that! Tests should start below grade level, build to grade level, then extend above to see where kids are compared to the standard. As it is, there are only about 10 questions per section and they are all so complicated and high.

But I’m thinking it must be different for high school? Or maybe different for a higher school with fewer language needs? You genuinely shocked me by saying MCAP is more beneficial!

From what my kid has reported (which may not be entirely accurate), it doesn’t sound like MCAP is well designed. My kid who generally scores in the low 90s on both MAP-R and MAP-M (not a top student but a good one) said she ran out of time on MCAP but that she had no idea how many questions were in the MCAP so she didn’t know how to adequately budget the time. And then the system forced her to fill in random responses to the all the questions she didn’t get to in time so she could submit the test. She was pretty frustrated.

She’s never complained about the MAP tests for what it’s worth…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about the state mails them directly to parents? It's their test after all..

Too expensive for them to print and mail to every test taker in the state.

Also there can be a lot of movement (ie families moving) between the time they get the student's mailing information to the time they actually mail the reports.

If only there were this handy dandy tool called the Internet that could speed up this process. And a platform where schools could share test results with parents.

What is it about the MCAPs that the results can't be uploaded on Parentvue like the MAP tests?

Nothing. MD provides MCPS access to the digital reports for all students. Other MD school districts do provide electronic access.

We should all write Donna Blaney at MCPS central office and ask her to upload the test results on ParentVue. There’s no reason they need to arrive by snail mail a year after the kids get tested. That’s embarrassing for MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAP grading takes longer because it includes writing. MAP is only multiple choice questions. As a teacher, at least on the secondary level, I think MCAP results are more meaningful.

I’m elementary and we definitely look at things differently, but I’m genuinely curious how they are more meaningful to you?

I work in a Title 1 with over 75% receiving ELD services, and MCAP is written at an above grade level level (trying to test addition with a wordy and confusing word problem that the kids can’t even read or understand, and testing reading comprehension with questions that are so confusing that are years above grade level). At least Map is adaptive and tests them where they’re at. When they finish, the kids get immediate satisfaction from their growth.

I was testing a small group this week for MCAP math and they all “finished” in 15-20 minutes. When you ask them why, it’s because they can’t read the questions (!!) so they just guess the multiple choice and type random things in the text boxes. It doesn’t get more waste of time than that! Tests should start below grade level, build to grade level, then extend above to see where kids are compared to the standard. As it is, there are only about 10 questions per section and they are all so complicated and high.

But I’m thinking it must be different for high school? Or maybe different for a higher school with fewer language needs? You genuinely shocked me by saying MCAP is more beneficial!

Is MCAP above grade level or are the kiddos below grade level? MCAP doesn’t begin until 3rd grade correct? Where the expectation would be kids can read and should be doing word problems in math regularly?

[Anonymous]

This is the sample 4th grade math test. https://support.mdassessments.com/resources/practice-tests/math/MD1126616_Gr4Mth_PT.pdf

I suggest everyone read it to recognize how much of a reading test it is. Kids are not allowed to take it in their native language. Many times they are asking kids to interpret why something is wrong- this is not an easy task. Many questions are over 3 steps- the kids aren’t there yet. It’s just too much.

But I do wonder if high school is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the sample 4th grade math test. https://support.mdassessments.com/resources/practice-tests/math/MD1126616_Gr4Mth_PT.pdf

I suggest everyone read it to recognize how much of a reading test it is. Kids are not allowed to take it in their native language. Many times they are asking kids to interpret why something is wrong- this is not an easy task. Many questions are over 3 steps- the kids aren’t there yet. It’s just too much.

But I do wonder if high school is better.

You mean some kids are not ready. There may need to be some adjustment made but as a parent I don’t think consistently making things easier for kids helps. Kids in 3-5 need to be reading, gaining comprehension skills and learning how to break apart problems to recognize the multiple steps needed to solve. Yes, there will continue to be a percentage of kids who are behind for a variety of reasons, and then should be provided the tools and support to help them develop the required foundational skills and catch up. But I suspect if we start encourage upper elementary kids to read 30mins a day the way we encourage them to be on travel sports teams things would start to improve.

https://mocoshow.com/2024/08/28/mcps-schools-show-consistent-performance-in-2023-2024-mcap-results/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the sample 4th grade math test. https://support.mdassessments.com/resources/practice-tests/math/MD1126616_Gr4Mth_PT.pdf

I suggest everyone read it to recognize how much of a reading test it is. Kids are not allowed to take it in their native language. Many times they are asking kids to interpret why something is wrong- this is not an easy task. Many questions are over 3 steps- the kids aren’t there yet. It’s just too much.

But I do wonder if high school is better.

You mean some kids are not ready. There may need to be some adjustment made but as a parent I don’t think consistently making things easier for kids helps. Kids in 3-5 need to be reading, gaining comprehension skills and learning how to break apart problems to recognize the multiple steps needed to solve. Yes, there will continue to be a percentage of kids who are behind for a variety of reasons, and then should be provided the tools and support to help them develop the required foundational skills and catch up. But I suspect if we start encourage upper elementary kids to read 30mins a day the way we encourage them to be on travel sports teams things would start to improve.

https://mocoshow.com/2024/08/28/mcps-schools-show-consistent-performance-in-2023-2024-mcap-results/

Score: O points, not responsive to the main topic.

You don't magically make education better by refusing to test the kids actual ability, and just repeatedly finding that they have failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about the state mails them directly to parents? It's their test after all..

Too expensive for them to print and mail to every test taker in the state.

Also there can be a lot of movement (ie families moving) between the time they get the student's mailing information to the time they actually mail the reports.

If only there were this handy dandy tool called the Internet that could speed up this process. And a platform where schools could share test results with parents.

What is it about the MCAPs that the results can't be uploaded on Parentvue like the MAP tests?

Nothing. MD provides MCPS access to the digital reports for all students. Other MD school districts do provide electronic access.

We should all write Donna Blaney at MCPS central office and ask her to upload the test results on ParentVue. There’s no reason they need to arrive by snail mail a year after the kids get tested. That’s embarrassing for MCPS.

No can do. If scores are prompt then they can't be disregarded as stale and irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

It's important to have both MCAP and MAP because seeing vastly different scores on two tests reminds us not to put too much faith in the tests.

MCAP isn't inherently bad. It constantly highlights that kids are stuck in courses that either match the MCAP but don't match the kid's preparation level, or courses that don't match the MCAP and "on-level" and "honors" designations are lies.

[Anonymous]

My 3rd grader tells me that mcap math test is much easier than the map math test. He is worried about the map math test next week because he wants to get into compacted math. I assure him that I get he can get in because of his high scores (last was like 240).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about the state mails them directly to parents? It's their test after all..

Too expensive for them to print and mail to every test taker in the state.

Also there can be a lot of movement (ie families moving) between the time they get the student's mailing information to the time they actually mail the reports.

If only there were this handy dandy tool called the Internet that could speed up this process. And a platform where schools could share test results with parents.

What is it about the MCAPs that the results can't be uploaded on Parentvue like the MAP tests?

Nothing. MD provides MCPS access to the digital reports for all students. Other MD school districts do provide electronic access.

We should all write Donna Blaney at MCPS central office and ask her to upload the test results on ParentVue. There’s no reason they need to arrive by snail mail a year after the kids get tested. That’s embarrassing for MCPS.

No can do. If scores are prompt then they can't be disregarded as stale and irrelevant.

Are you from Central Office? Do you mean parents can’t write her or MCPS can’t upload them to Parentvue like other Maryland districts do because they want parents to have the scores only when it’s too late?