Ruby Franke/mormon mom-vlog doc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

+1 well said PP. I was raised Mormon in an abusive household. I would add that the church also is VERY gender role heavy. The emphasis on maintaining a years supply of food also adds a bit of fatalism to the church and the afterlife and being sealed together is a very big deal. (Or at least was in my family)

The mans job is to provide and the woman’s to take care of the household. In my house, my dad was the abuser, but if it were my mom, my dad wasn’t around a lot to have known what she did. The children were her business and as long as we were “good” and quiet, we are fine. This also leads to a LOT of perfectionism in women trying to be the perfect girl, woman, wife and mother. Even though I left the church, I could relate to Ruby’s thinking she wanted to be the “perfect mom.” The church drills that into you as being your true purpose in life.

I think the Dad in this situation felt a little emasculated and lost starting when Ruby made more money with her vlogging. It snowballed from there with him checking out a little more as he was expected to take on a smaller role in the family as his church given role of provider was lessened and he became more of a child role in the household. I am also thinking he was in shock when he asked about what emaciated meant. Like he really needed them to go slower so he could process what was happening to his kids. He broke down in tears just after that.

[Anonymous]

The husband’s appearance changed so much over the years I found that so bizarre – most men do not change that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

+1 well said PP. I was raised Mormon in an abusive household. I would add that the church also is VERY gender role heavy. The emphasis on maintaining a years supply of food also adds a bit of fatalism to the church and the afterlife and being sealed together is a very big deal. (Or at least was in my family)

The mans job is to provide and the woman’s to take care of the household. In my house, my dad was the abuser, but if it were my mom, my dad wasn’t around a lot to have known what she did. The children were her business and as long as we were “good” and quiet, we are fine. This also leads to a LOT of perfectionism in women trying to be the perfect girl, woman, wife and mother. Even though I left the church, I could relate to Ruby’s thinking she wanted to be the “perfect mom.” The church drills that into you as being your true purpose in life.

I think the Dad in this situation felt a little emasculated and lost starting when Ruby made more money with her vlogging. It snowballed from there with him checking out a little more as he was expected to take on a smaller role in the family as his church given role of provider was lessened and he became more of a child role in the household. I am also thinking he was in shock when he asked about what emaciated meant. Like he really needed them to go slower so he could process what was happening to his kids. He broke down in tears just after that.

"Keep sweet."

[Anonymous]

Jodi and Ruby alienated Kevin from the family 'to work on himself' and he didn't see the kids for close to a year before she was arrested. He had to follow all their rules or else she threatened to never let him back home or to be part of the family again.

He doesn't want her back anymore. He was in shock in the police interviews and it took him awhile to be deprogrammed. I don't get the sense he is the best dad ever but referring to him as weak for being an abused spouse kind of just furthers the emasculation.

[Anonymous]

Another ex-Mormon who agrees that the culty tendencies of the LDS church absolutely laid the groundwork. It is not that every Mormon is evil or crazy. It is that the LDS Church encourages dysfunctional thought patterns and limits access to effective mental health care (bc it is more important that a practitioner be supportive of the church than that they be qualified and educated), so anyone who does struggle with mental health is likely to get worse, not better and abuse by members in good standing is covered up or minimized so it gets worse and worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

The Mormon family down the street from you has nothing to do with Ruby Franke. I sincerely hope you understand that, although it sort of sounds like you do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

Very true, but also true of all organized, conservative religions, right? Catholicism for sure, evangelical Christians. I'm less familiar with sex abuse scandals in Judiasm or Islam or other religions, but any church where you're taught to obey your elders without questions and where women are subservient to men is fraught.

[Anonymous]

I just got Shari's book from the library and am SO excited to read this shitshow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The husband’s appearance changed so much over the years I found that so bizarre – most men do not change that much.

I thought that too. He went from a slight build to someone who looked like he was juicing and body building. Nothing wrong with that (except the juicing part) but it was probably another Ruby dictate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

Very true, but also true of all organized, conservative religions, right? Catholicism for sure, evangelical Christians. I'm less familiar with sex abuse scandals in Judiasm or Islam or other religions, but any church where you're taught to obey your elders without questions and where women are subservient to men is fraught.

DP, but one thing that is very different in the LDS Church is that it’s origins are recent enough that there is lots of real, tangible evidence that it is not true. There are lots of first-person accounts or archaeological evidence that conflicts or disproves the official church narratives about its own “divine” origins, and they also change the doctrine pretty frequently. All of this requires an extra dose of culty behavior and thought-control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I refuse to watch.

That'll show 'em!

[Anonymous]

This was absolutely riveting.

A must-watch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds fascinating.

There is a Mormon family who lives down the street; I have not met them and I understand the kids go to a private school. Can’t say I know much about Mormons in .general.

Will chuck out the Hulu documentary. Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is a documentary about a mom blogger who abused her children in a horrific way.

Dp, and completely agree. But you’ve got to admit it gives a glimpse into the unique lds culture in Utah. Some of my closest friends are LDS and even they raised an eyebrow at the ridiculously high standards of perfection in Utah LDS. The cultish following of Jodi as the men and women sought guidance towards perfection was clearly tied to the LDS beliefs.

+1 I used to be Mormon. People who think this has nothing to do with Mormonism are deluding themselves.

The church instructs believers to accept authority without questioning it. It says pronouncements from the church are from divine revelation, not a rule for discussion. So the church recommends a therapist as approved (Jodi was in thick with LDS leadership) the family assumes that means they are an authority to be heeded. Their spiritual future is in danger if they don’t. There’s no framework for questioning built in, there’s no such thing as an LDS licensing ombudsman to appeal to. If you don’t cooperate with the therapist’s directives, they can recommend to your spiritual superiors that you aren’t in good standing anymore, which can lead to your Temple Recommend getting suspended or even removed (excommunication). And you can’t do anything important through the church without that recommend.

All of the abusive parenting rhetoric employed by Ruby and Jodi has its roots in Mormon beliefs. Jodi’s rise to success can be directly attributed to the church leaders who recommended and advertised her services. They gave her access to a virtually endless client pool and watched idly as she destroyed the lives of her clients for years. We know unquestionably that church leaders witnessed Jodi verbally and physically abusing children who were left in her care (ie her niece) and still actively encouraged her methods. I find it so frustrating that people pussyfoot around assigning the Mormon church blame in this case, maybe out of some desire to respect widely held religious beliefs, but imo not all religions deserve respect.

In Shari’s book, she talks about being sexually abused by an older man from church and the way that the church opted to punish HER while letting him off scot free, no questions asked - it was a deliberate, coordinated cover up by a large number of church leaders who apparently actively condone the sexual abuse of women. At a certain point we have to acknowledge that the issues with abuse in Mormonism are not just one-off flukes.

Very true, but also true of all organized, conservative religions, right? Catholicism for sure, evangelical Christians. I'm less familiar with sex abuse scandals in Judiasm or Islam or other religions, but any church where you're taught to obey your elders without questions and where women are subservient to men is fraught.

I've been friends with several Mormons over the years. The perfectionism is unlike anything I've ever seen. I think it is aimed at women more but men also have to live up to a very impossible standard. Everyone is also expected to give a lot of time to the church as well as be materially successful, good looking and have perfect showplace homes. I think it is much more pronounced than it is in other religious cultures and they blame the individual when they have a problem or complaint in a way that's more judgemental (and even gaslighting) than I've seen elsewhere. It's like the "no excuses; it's your doing" culture and it can be very unfair to people and I think it can drive people bonkers. But Ruby Franke and the psychologist seemed psychotic and a lot of what they talked about did not seem very LDS. It seemed more out-there fringe Evangelical or FDLS but maybe I'm wrong on that.