Entering assisted living- how to pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, why are in laws reluctant to sell the vacation home? I get the condo since psychologically they want a place to go if the AL place doesn't work out. But I think there is an adjustment period going from being truly independent in your own home, to having to "follow the rules" of a new living situation. They also have to deal with lots of personalities of the other residents. Not everyone is super social.

Depending on how this affects their taxes, I would really try to sell the vacation property to pay for the entrance fee. (I also think they definitely need to go where they have friends if they can afford it.)

I know of some places that will do a bridge loan with the pending sale of a home. I also know people who either pay for their parent's entrance fee, or contractually provide the bridge loan in the pending sale of a home. I also know someone who paid for her parent and basically put a lien on the will?? Not sure exactly how it worked, but basically the estate had to pay her back before proceeds were distributed to heirs.

The issue with the vacation home is that it was purchased 10 months ago, so I’m guessing there are big tax implications, they also got screwed over a bit on that transaction but I don’t know all the details. Things have changed quite significantly in the last few months and we are trying to get things in order. Will definitely get a lawyer who specializes in this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

I’m sure, but getting them to agree to this was a Herculean effort, they have friends at a certain place, very near us, and feel comfortable with the security of their endorsement.

Yikes.

We pay month to month and can leave anytime if the service becomes bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

I’m sure, but getting them to agree to this was a Herculean effort, they have friends at a certain place, very near us, and feel comfortable with the security of their endorsement.

Yikes.

We pay month to month and can leave anytime if the service becomes bad.

Doubt you are in a CCRC. Entire point of a CCRC is to visit beforehand to make sure it's the right place. Month to month does not get you the same protections as a CCRC. You get what you Pay for.

Also, most CCRC you get your entry fee back if you leave in first 48 months, it's prorated by month. So if in 6 months you hate it, you get 3.5 years of it back.

[Anonymous]

At Erickson CCRC properties (like Riderwood and Greenspring) you get 90% of the entrance fee back whenever you leave or to the designated beneficiaries after death.

Not cheap but just wanted to point out how one CCRC handles the fee (my parent was at an Erickson property in another state which is why I’m familiar with their set up).

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/riderwood/pricing

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/greenspring/pricing

Look closely as the terms are different at each CCRC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

If you have the money, they are not a rip off. If you enter a CCRC while healthy in IL, yes you pay more. But with the entrance fee and the extra, you are guaranteed "any advanced care" with no additional costs (except for the extra 2 meals per day typically). And in most of them, if one parent goes to "advanced care" (memory, assisted living, nursing, etc) the other gets to keep the same Ind Living apartment for no increase cost. For my parents, it would only take ~1 -1.5 years for each of them to be in "advanced care" to pay for itself.

In the meantime, my parents are enjoying life to the fullest, never have to worry about cooking or cleaning or fixing anything. And the key part---should you need "advanced care" there are always spots kept open for the CCRC residents, so it's not a search and pray process for finding the care when they need it. Also, I live 3K miles from them, so it's nice to know I can manage an emergency from a distance and they will be well taken care of. Also, the IL spouse can visit the other one daily as it's right there---they will never be in separate facilities where someone has to drive one to the other.

But in reality, if you have the money, this is what you have saved for. Why not spend it for a nice last 5-20+ years?

+1

A good CCRC will be expensive up front, but is a great option for those who qualify. My parents were in a similar place, my father was in assisted living, mom in independent living, but in the same unit. He eventually went to memory care and then passed away. As awful as that was, it was so much simpler than if they had been in a one-size-fits-all/month-by-month place or at their home. And likely would
have aged my mom even more.

Now, I have a sibling who is still upset about it, because they think it will cut into our inheritance, but they can die mad, since they also didn’t want to take care of our aging parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At Erickson CCRC properties (like Riderwood and Greenspring) you get 90% of the entrance fee back whenever you leave or to the designated beneficiaries after death.

Not cheap but just wanted to point out how one CCRC handles the fee (my parent was at an Erickson property in another state which is why I’m familiar with their set up).

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/riderwood/pricing

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/greenspring/pricing

Look closely as the terms are different at each CCRC.

I’m OP and the property is Greenspring. Have you been satisfied with Erickson?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

If you have the money, they are not a rip off. If you enter a CCRC while healthy in IL, yes you pay more. But with the entrance fee and the extra, you are guaranteed "any advanced care" with no additional costs (except for the extra 2 meals per day typically). And in most of them, if one parent goes to "advanced care" (memory, assisted living, nursing, etc) the other gets to keep the same Ind Living apartment for no increase cost. For my parents, it would only take ~1 -1.5 years for each of them to be in "advanced care" to pay for itself.

In the meantime, my parents are enjoying life to the fullest, never have to worry about cooking or cleaning or fixing anything. And the key part---should you need "advanced care" there are always spots kept open for the CCRC residents, so it's not a search and pray process for finding the care when they need it. Also, I live 3K miles from them, so it's nice to know I can manage an emergency from a distance and they will be well taken care of. Also, the IL spouse can visit the other one daily as it's right there---they will never be in separate facilities where someone has to drive one to the other.

But in reality, if you have the money, this is what you have saved for. Why not spend it for a nice last 5-20+ years?

+1

A good CCRC will be expensive up front, but is a great option for those who qualify. My parents were in a similar place, my father was in assisted living, mom in independent living, but in the same unit. He eventually went to memory care and then passed away. As awful as that was, it was so much simpler than if they had been in a one-size-fits-all/month-by-month place or at their home. And likely would
have aged my mom even more.

Now, I have a sibling who is still upset about it, because they think it will cut into our inheritance, but they can die mad, since they also didn’t want to take care of our aging parents.

My husband and I agree that there is no greater inheritance than having help maintaining safety and keeping them happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

I’m sure, but getting them to agree to this was a Herculean effort, they have friends at a certain place, very near us, and feel comfortable with the security of their endorsement.

Yikes.

We pay month to month and can leave anytime if the service becomes bad.

Doubt you are in a CCRC. Entire point of a CCRC is to visit beforehand to make sure it's the right place. Month to month does not get you the same protections as a CCRC. You get what you Pay for.

Also, most CCRC you get your entry fee back if you leave in first 48 months, it's prorated by month. So if in 6 months you hate it, you get 3.5 years of it back.

What do you mean you get what you pay for? Many of the places I've toured are north of $10k a month.

[Anonymous]

Move them first. Then, sell the house. You do not want this ... keeping the house "would probably make them feel better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At Erickson CCRC properties (like Riderwood and Greenspring) you get 90% of the entrance fee back whenever you leave or to the designated beneficiaries after death.

Not cheap but just wanted to point out how one CCRC handles the fee (my parent was at an Erickson property in another state which is why I’m familiar with their set up).

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/riderwood/pricing

https://www.ericksonseniorliving.com/greenspring/pricing

Look closely as the terms are different at each CCRC.

Yes terms are different. My parents lost do the 48 month diminishing returns (to zero in month 48. Their entrance fee was $420K. The 90% refundable was over $900k. We preferred to just pay the disappearing one and be in control of the other 450K+ for 5-20+ years. Don't need to use a CcRC as an investment vehicle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

+1. There are a number of nice places in Montgomery County; placed my Mom this year so toured a lot homes; with a one-time move-in fee ($4K) and then just monthly rent.

Hi - Do you have any recommendations based on your search?

NP. There's an extensive discussion of local options in this recent thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106649.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

If you have the money, they are not a rip off. If you enter a CCRC while healthy in IL, yes you pay more. But with the entrance fee and the extra, you are guaranteed "any advanced care" with no additional costs (except for the extra 2 meals per day typically). And in most of them, if one parent goes to "advanced care" (memory, assisted living, nursing, etc) the other gets to keep the same Ind Living apartment for no increase cost. For my parents, it would only take ~1 -1.5 years for each of them to be in "advanced care" to pay for itself.

In the meantime, my parents are enjoying life to the fullest, never have to worry about cooking or cleaning or fixing anything. And the key part---should you need "advanced care" there are always spots kept open for the CCRC residents, so it's not a search and pray process for finding the care when they need it. Also, I live 3K miles from them, so it's nice to know I can manage an emergency from a distance and they will be well taken care of. Also, the IL spouse can visit the other one daily as it's right there---they will never be in separate facilities where someone has to drive one to the other.

But in reality, if you have the money, this is what you have saved for. Why not spend it for a nice last 5-20+ years?

+1

A good CCRC will be expensive up front, but is a great option for those who qualify. My parents were in a similar place, my father was in assisted living, mom in independent living, but in the same unit. He eventually went to memory care and then passed away. As awful as that was, it was so much simpler than if they had been in a one-size-fits-all/month-by-month place or at their home. And likely would
have aged my mom even more.

Now, I have a sibling who is still upset about it, because they think it will cut into our inheritance, but they can die mad, since they also didn’t want to take care of our aging parents.

I also have a sibling who will be upset, does nothing to help (both are a distance, I'm much farther). I'm the POA and have all control, they are allowed to "get information about my parents/be informed" and that is it (parent's choice). Asked my parent's to inform the sibling that should there be anything left in the estate, after basic bills, I get paid back next with interest for the entrance fee I paid . Basically sibling likely won't get much if anything. The $400K+ I provided with interest is now over $450K. Realistically, I'm not even getting paid back fully.
But sibling was upset when told and will likely have "forgotten" and be upset when estate is settled.
We were happy to pay the fee and have them spend their hard earned money. I don't expect or need an inheritance. I'd rather they live their final years in comfort and happiness (and at a much nicer level than the rest of their lives were). Finally spending the money they worked so hard to save

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

I’m sure, but getting them to agree to this was a Herculean effort, they have friends at a certain place, very near us, and feel comfortable with the security of their endorsement.

Yikes.

We pay month to month and can leave anytime if the service becomes bad.

Doubt you are in a CCRC. Entire point of a CCRC is to visit beforehand to make sure it's the right place. Month to month does not get you the same protections as a CCRC. You get what you Pay for.

Also, most CCRC you get your entry fee back if you leave in first 48 months, it's prorated by month. So if in 6 months you hate it, you get 3.5 years of it back.

What do you mean you get what you pay for? Many of the places I've toured are north of $10k a month.

The CCRC entrance fee and higher monthly fees means higher level of service all around. My parents can go to any "advanced services" and not pay any extra (except for the extra 2 meals per day). One can be in IL while other is in advanced care, and nothing changes for fees.
No $15-16K/month for memory care or nursing care like the good month to month places.

[Anonymous]

I have a question. OP mentioned in one of her posts that these ILs both have long term care insurance. Doesn’t that change the calculus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of places without entrance fees. Those places are a rip off.

If you have the money, they are not a rip off. If you enter a CCRC while healthy in IL, yes you pay more. But with the entrance fee and the extra, you are guaranteed "any advanced care" with no additional costs (except for the extra 2 meals per day typically). And in most of them, if one parent goes to "advanced care" (memory, assisted living, nursing, etc) the other gets to keep the same Ind Living apartment for no increase cost. For my parents, it would only take ~1 -1.5 years for each of them to be in "advanced care" to pay for itself.

In the meantime, my parents are enjoying life to the fullest, never have to worry about cooking or cleaning or fixing anything. And the key part---should you need "advanced care" there are always spots kept open for the CCRC residents, so it's not a search and pray process for finding the care when they need it. Also, I live 3K miles from them, so it's nice to know I can manage an emergency from a distance and they will be well taken care of. Also, the IL spouse can visit the other one daily as it's right there---they will never be in separate facilities where someone has to drive one to the other.

But in reality, if you have the money, this is what you have saved for. Why not spend it for a nice last 5-20+ years?

+1

A good CCRC will be expensive up front, but is a great option for those who qualify. My parents were in a similar place, my father was in assisted living, mom in independent living, but in the same unit. He eventually went to memory care and then passed away. As awful as that was, it was so much simpler than if they had been in a one-size-fits-all/month-by-month place or at their home. And likely would
have aged my mom even more.

Now, I have a sibling who is still upset about it, because they think it will cut into our inheritance, but they can die mad, since they also didn’t want to take care of our aging parents.

I also have a sibling who will be upset, does nothing to help (both are a distance, I'm much farther). I'm the POA and have all control, they are allowed to "get information about my parents/be informed" and that is it (parent's choice). Asked my parent's to inform the sibling that should there be anything left in the estate, after basic bills, I get paid back next with interest for the entrance fee I paid . Basically sibling likely won't get much if anything. The $400K+ I provided with interest is now over $450K. Realistically, I'm not even getting paid back fully.
But sibling was upset when told and will likely have "forgotten" and be upset when estate is settled.
We were happy to pay the fee and have them spend their hard earned money. I don't expect or need an inheritance. I'd rather they live their final years in comfort and happiness (and at a much nicer level than the rest of their lives were). Finally spending the money they worked so hard to save

We did a version of this and FIL put it in writing and reminded the siblings and their wives at a family dinner of the arrangement. Super awkward, but thankfully there was no way to misconstrue when FIL passed.