Can you be a competitive dancer without being good at gymnastics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter did a minor competition dance team from ages 4 to 6 and then moved to just regular dance after that due to cost and time commitment of competition dance once you get to 1st grade. She had zero interest in dancing 4-5 days a week for hours at a time nor did I have any interest in spending $1000 a month.

The studio will tell you it’s two days a week three hours a day and $300. Then you find out everyone on that team also does a separate acrobatics class plus separate privates weekly for acro, technic, and a potential solo.

Then the Studio will require Saturday rehearsals once comp competition seasons about to heat up, but the Saturday rehearsals are an extra $25-$50 per Saturday so that they can pay the instructors.

Then your costumes for each dance may start at about 150 but they’ll have to be crystalled as well - which will be another 150 and if you’re doing a solo you can expect to drop five or 600 on a costume.

Then you’ll get the emails that the upcoming competition is $250-$400 to enter depending on the number of dances. That does not include the $50 a day parent entry fee or the hotel because it’s paid for play and you have to stay at the hotel (even if you have family you could stay with). Or flights (there will be at least in TN or TX). Plus they have team practice gear and jackets and water bottles and even bows you have to buy. The bow is $35-40 by itself.

Then there is the cost of Summit (in Georgia I think) and if they make it - the annual week in Disney for nationals. They could win a paid bid to nationals but it covers their entry fee and maybe the cost of their shared room (so 1/4 the cost of the hotel). So you’ll still be covering flights, hotels and park entry fees and competition entry fees for a week in Disney. Plus if the go to nationals their may be new special costumes/jackets etc that will run another $500 or so.

My friends daughter had two solos this year and each costume was custom made for $800 each. She’s $10. They had to fly to four of the competitions this year because it was too far to drive / they also drove 3-5 hours to attend a few others - all of which required her daughter to miss multiple days of school.

This sounds like all-star dance.

I’ve never paid more than $250 for a solo costume. I’ve never paid an entry fee to a competition. I’ve never had to pay for extra rehearsals (except solos). I’ve never had to buy a bow??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter did a minor competition dance team from ages 4 to 6 and then moved to just regular dance after that due to cost and time commitment of competition dance once you get to 1st grade. She had zero interest in dancing 4-5 days a week for hours at a time nor did I have any interest in spending $1000 a month.

The studio will tell you it’s two days a week three hours a day and $300. Then you find out everyone on that team also does a separate acrobatics class plus separate privates weekly for acro, technic, and a potential solo.

Then the Studio will require Saturday rehearsals once comp competition seasons about to heat up, but the Saturday rehearsals are an extra $25-$50 per Saturday so that they can pay the instructors.

Then your costumes for each dance may start at about 150 but they’ll have to be crystalled as well - which will be another 150 and if you’re doing a solo you can expect to drop five or 600 on a costume.

Then you’ll get the emails that the upcoming competition is $250-$400 to enter depending on the number of dances. That does not include the $50 a day parent entry fee or the hotel because it’s paid for play and you have to stay at the hotel (even if you have family you could stay with). Or flights (there will be at least in TN or TX). Plus they have team practice gear and jackets and water bottles and even bows you have to buy. The bow is $35-40 by itself.

Then there is the cost of Summit (in Georgia I think) and if they make it - the annual week in Disney for nationals. They could win a paid bid to nationals but it covers their entry fee and maybe the cost of their shared room (so 1/4 the cost of the hotel). So you’ll still be covering flights, hotels and park entry fees and competition entry fees for a week in Disney. Plus if the go to nationals their may be new special costumes/jackets etc that will run another $500 or so.

My friends daughter had two solos this year and each costume was custom made for $800 each. She’s $10. They had to fly to four of the competitions this year because it was too far to drive / they also drove 3-5 hours to attend a few others - all of which required her daughter to miss multiple days of school.

This sounds like all-star dance.

I’ve never paid more than $250 for a solo costume. I’ve never paid an entry fee to a competition. I’ve never had to pay for extra rehearsals (except solos). I’ve never had to buy a bow??

$250 for a costume is still too much. Entry fees are common. Point is you pay more for all these items that have nothing to do about learning how to dance than you do for classes.

[Anonymous]

Costume fees are under $50 for my dd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of talk right now in the dance world about the role of acro in competitive dance. I side with the people and choreographers/judges who argue that acro is used as cheap filler in routines, is rarely connected to choreography, and is disproportionately valued in the competitive dance world while adding little actual dance value. If you want, you can go down an internet rabbit hole on this topic.

The reality is that few studios are going to teach acro safely. So if your child wants to eventually learn acro in a dance context, don't let her do it in some little dance studio on a panel mat with sketchy spotting and poor technique. Find a solid, high quality studio that emphasizes actual dance technique over putting 5 year olds in a "company". And find a solid, quality gymnastics gym that offers tumbling-only classes. Both of these things exist, but they aren't going to be pushing the kinds of flashy videos featuring 7 year olds doing crazy tricks with hastags like #tinydancer #thisis7 #futurestar that infiltrate your instagram feed.

+1 This would be Raynor van der Merwe at Encore Performers (Encore Theatre Arts Project). Her philosophy is wonderful. Children stay in the same level for two years, with year one exposure and repetition/growth, and the second year is mastery. She nurtures performers, and all one has to do is attend their holiday show (she has put one on every December since 1994) to see how she prioritizes working on stage. My daughter is not in her ETAP company, but three of her teachers have performed multiple shows either on Broadway (2) or on a national tour (1). Strongly recommend this studio!

https://www.instagram.com/encore_tap?igsh=NmNpeGN2d3JuOWFm

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-the-impact-a-dance-competition-podcast/id1482584144?i=1000581023022

Performers rarely make good teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter did a minor competition dance team from ages 4 to 6 and then moved to just regular dance after that due to cost and time commitment of competition dance once you get to 1st grade. She had zero interest in dancing 4-5 days a week for hours at a time nor did I have any interest in spending $1000 a month.

The studio will tell you it’s two days a week three hours a day and $300. Then you find out everyone on that team also does a separate acrobatics class plus separate privates weekly for acro, technic, and a potential solo.

Then the Studio will require Saturday rehearsals once comp competition seasons about to heat up, but the Saturday rehearsals are an extra $25-$50 per Saturday so that they can pay the instructors.

Then your costumes for each dance may start at about 150 but they’ll have to be crystalled as well - which will be another 150 and if you’re doing a solo you can expect to drop five or 600 on a costume.

Then you’ll get the emails that the upcoming competition is $250-$400 to enter depending on the number of dances. That does not include the $50 a day parent entry fee or the hotel because it’s paid for play and you have to stay at the hotel (even if you have family you could stay with). Or flights (there will be at least in TN or TX). Plus they have team practice gear and jackets and water bottles and even bows you have to buy. The bow is $35-40 by itself.

Then there is the cost of Summit (in Georgia I think) and if they make it - the annual week in Disney for nationals. They could win a paid bid to nationals but it covers their entry fee and maybe the cost of their shared room (so 1/4 the cost of the hotel). So you’ll still be covering flights, hotels and park entry fees and competition entry fees for a week in Disney. Plus if the go to nationals their may be new special costumes/jackets etc that will run another $500 or so.

My friends daughter had two solos this year and each costume was custom made for $800 each. She’s $10. They had to fly to four of the competitions this year because it was too far to drive / they also drove 3-5 hours to attend a few others - all of which required her daughter to miss multiple days of school.

This sounds like all-star dance.

I’ve never paid more than $250 for a solo costume. I’ve never paid an entry fee to a competition. I’ve never had to pay for extra rehearsals (except solos). I’ve never had to buy a bow??

$250 for a costume is still too much. Entry fees are common. Point is you pay more for all these items that have nothing to do about learning how to dance than you do for classes.

Too much to you. I think it’s fine. I’ve been to tons of dance competitions and there’s never an entry fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of talk right now in the dance world about the role of acro in competitive dance. I side with the people and choreographers/judges who argue that acro is used as cheap filler in routines, is rarely connected to choreography, and is disproportionately valued in the competitive dance world while adding little actual dance value. If you want, you can go down an internet rabbit hole on this topic.

The reality is that few studios are going to teach acro safely. So if your child wants to eventually learn acro in a dance context, don't let her do it in some little dance studio on a panel mat with sketchy spotting and poor technique. Find a solid, high quality studio that emphasizes actual dance technique over putting 5 year olds in a "company". And find a solid, quality gymnastics gym that offers tumbling-only classes. Both of these things exist, but they aren't going to be pushing the kinds of flashy videos featuring 7 year olds doing crazy tricks with hastags like #tinydancer #thisis7 #futurestar that infiltrate your instagram feed.

+1 This would be Raynor van der Merwe at Encore Performers (Encore Theatre Arts Project). Her philosophy is wonderful. Children stay in the same level for two years, with year one exposure and repetition/growth, and the second year is mastery. She nurtures performers, and all one has to do is attend their holiday show (she has put one on every December since 1994) to see how she prioritizes working on stage. My daughter is not in her ETAP company, but three of her teachers have performed multiple shows either on Broadway (2) or on a national tour (1). Strongly recommend this studio!

https://www.instagram.com/encore_tap?igsh=NmNpeGN2d3JuOWFm

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/making-the-impact-a-dance-competition-podcast/id1482584144?i=1000581023022

Performers rarely make good teachers.

I can’t speak to a qualitative analysis of all performer-teachers (I would be interested in the citation you have for your claim), but Paige Williams, Luke Spring, Becca Perron, and Courtney Moran Rosendall are tremendous instructors (I evaluate educators, am a former elementary teacher, and have worked as a professor for 12 years, so I have terribly high standards. 😊.) The podcast episode above featuring Raynor is excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter did a minor competition dance team from ages 4 to 6 and then moved to just regular dance after that due to cost and time commitment of competition dance once you get to 1st grade. She had zero interest in dancing 4-5 days a week for hours at a time nor did I have any interest in spending $1000 a month.

The studio will tell you it’s two days a week three hours a day and $300. Then you find out everyone on that team also does a separate acrobatics class plus separate privates weekly for acro, technic, and a potential solo.

Then the Studio will require Saturday rehearsals once comp competition seasons about to heat up, but the Saturday rehearsals are an extra $25-$50 per Saturday so that they can pay the instructors.

Then your costumes for each dance may start at about 150 but they’ll have to be crystalled as well - which will be another 150 and if you’re doing a solo you can expect to drop five or 600 on a costume.

Then you’ll get the emails that the upcoming competition is $250-$400 to enter depending on the number of dances. That does not include the $50 a day parent entry fee or the hotel because it’s paid for play and you have to stay at the hotel (even if you have family you could stay with). Or flights (there will be at least in TN or TX). Plus they have team practice gear and jackets and water bottles and even bows you have to buy. The bow is $35-40 by itself.

Then there is the cost of Summit (in Georgia I think) and if they make it - the annual week in Disney for nationals. They could win a paid bid to nationals but it covers their entry fee and maybe the cost of their shared room (so 1/4 the cost of the hotel). So you’ll still be covering flights, hotels and park entry fees and competition entry fees for a week in Disney. Plus if the go to nationals their may be new special costumes/jackets etc that will run another $500 or so.

My friends daughter had two solos this year and each costume was custom made for $800 each. She’s $10. They had to fly to four of the competitions this year because it was too far to drive / they also drove 3-5 hours to attend a few others - all of which required her daughter to miss multiple days of school.

This sounds like all-star dance.

I’ve never paid more than $250 for a solo costume. I’ve never paid an entry fee to a competition. I’ve never had to pay for extra rehearsals (except solos). I’ve never had to buy a bow??

I think this is the Varsity Dance Summit to which you refer: https://www.varsity.com/all-star/competitions/end-of-season-events/fans-the-dance-summit/

It seems similar to All-Star Cheer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t seem like there’s anything good about competitive dance.

It's basically kid pageants with some dance skill thrown in. Horrible culture. I danced from age 6 to age 26, my DD dances. If you love dance, just go to a dance studio where you get to dance. One or two recitals a year for family and friends. Older, more serious students get opportunities to perform in a more professional way, a reward for years of dedication and love of dance, not a cheap trophy for doing a 2 minute routine in a convention center in front of a bunch of other competitive dance teams.

Yes and yes. And the dumb faces they learn to make. I just cannot..

We go to Encore, which is exactly what you describe. Is that where your daughter attends dance class too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter did a minor competition dance team from ages 4 to 6 and then moved to just regular dance after that due to cost and time commitment of competition dance once you get to 1st grade. She had zero interest in dancing 4-5 days a week for hours at a time nor did I have any interest in spending $1000 a month.

The studio will tell you it’s two days a week three hours a day and $300. Then you find out everyone on that team also does a separate acrobatics class plus separate privates weekly for acro, technic, and a potential solo.

Then the Studio will require Saturday rehearsals once comp competition seasons about to heat up, but the Saturday rehearsals are an extra $25-$50 per Saturday so that they can pay the instructors.

Then your costumes for each dance may start at about 150 but they’ll have to be crystalled as well - which will be another 150 and if you’re doing a solo you can expect to drop five or 600 on a costume.

Then you’ll get the emails that the upcoming competition is $250-$400 to enter depending on the number of dances. That does not include the $50 a day parent entry fee or the hotel because it’s paid for play and you have to stay at the hotel (even if you have family you could stay with). Or flights (there will be at least in TN or TX). Plus they have team practice gear and jackets and water bottles and even bows you have to buy. The bow is $35-40 by itself.

Then there is the cost of Summit (in Georgia I think) and if they make it - the annual week in Disney for nationals. They could win a paid bid to nationals but it covers their entry fee and maybe the cost of their shared room (so 1/4 the cost of the hotel). So you’ll still be covering flights, hotels and park entry fees and competition entry fees for a week in Disney. Plus if the go to nationals their may be new special costumes/jackets etc that will run another $500 or so.

My friends daughter had two solos this year and each costume was custom made for $800 each. She’s $10. They had to fly to four of the competitions this year because it was too far to drive / they also drove 3-5 hours to attend a few others - all of which required her daughter to miss multiple days of school.

This sounds like all-star dance.

I’ve never paid more than $250 for a solo costume. I’ve never paid an entry fee to a competition. I’ve never had to pay for extra rehearsals (except solos). I’ve never had to buy a bow??

I think this is the Varsity Dance Summit to which you refer: https://www.varsity.com/all-star/competitions/end-of-season-events/fans-the-dance-summit/

It seems similar to All-Star Cheer.

Yes that’s it! Again we didn’t pursue it - thought about it but it was too much money and time and my daughter wasn’t that passionate about it.

Had she loved dance and wanted it then we probably would have done it until all the fees started piling on and I learned that it really wasn’t $200-300 a month.

So now she takes 2 rec classes a week for $160 a month at a studio five minutes from our house.

Although once you factor in dance shoes, practices leotards/tights, costumes, pictures, recital fees and a week or two of dance camp in the summer it’s closer to $200 a month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t seem like there’s anything good about competitive dance.

It's basically kid pageants with some dance skill thrown in. Horrible culture. I danced from age 6 to age 26, my DD dances. If you love dance, just go to a dance studio where you get to dance. One or two recitals a year for family and friends. Older, more serious students get opportunities to perform in a more professional way, a reward for years of dedication and love of dance, not a cheap trophy for doing a 2 minute routine in a convention center in front of a bunch of other competitive dance teams.

Yes and yes. And the dumb faces they learn to make. I just cannot..

We go to Encore, which is exactly what you describe. Is that where your daughter attends dance class too?

PP re attending Encore, and I did not mean to reply to the “dumb faces” comment. I meant to reply to the comment, “If you love dance, just go to a dance studio where you get to dance. One or two recitals a year for family and friends. Older, more serious students get opportunities to perform in a more professional way, a reward for years of dedication and love of dance, not a cheap trophy for doing a 2 minute routine in a convention center in front of a bunch of other competitive dance teams.”

[Anonymous]

My niece was on her cheer leading team in middle school, but could not do then splits / aerials / flips like all the other girls. When the team was selected to go the state championships, she was not invited. Very hard lesson, and she no longer participated in sports. Now in college, she has become quite accomplished in Pilates. She found her fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece was on her cheer leading team in middle school, but could not do then splits / aerials / flips like all the other girls. When the team was selected to go the state championships, she was not invited. Very hard lesson, and she no longer participated in sports. Now in college, she has become quite accomplished in Pilates. She found her fit.

Cheerleading is not dance. No relevance to this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My niece was on her cheer leading team in middle school, but could not do then splits / aerials / flips like all the other girls. When the team was selected to go the state championships, she was not invited. Very hard lesson, and she no longer participated in sports. Now in college, she has become quite accomplished in Pilates. She found her fit.

Cheerleading is not dance. No relevance to this conversation.

It certainly is. You are weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My niece was on her cheer leading team in middle school, but could not do then splits / aerials / flips like all the other girls. When the team was selected to go the state championships, she was not invited. Very hard lesson, and she no longer participated in sports. Now in college, she has become quite accomplished in Pilates. She found her fit.

Cheerleading is not dance. No relevance to this conversation.

It certainly is. You are weird.

No it’s not. It incorporates dance elements but it’s definitely not dance.

[Anonymous]

Why are you focusing on competition dance? Just have her take classes and participate in the recital. No need to take things to the extreme. If later she wants to compete, then you can consider it.