This story of loan forgiveness does not sit well with me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't kid yourselves, student loan forgiveness is nothing more than vote buying by the Democrats.

And corporate tax cuts and bailouts are vote buying by the Republicans. Pick your constituency.

Last I looked a lot of big corporations are run by liberals/Democrats and there are a lot of Democrats who are billionaires. Keep trying you’ll get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in loan forgiveness. But I was shocked at the way student loans are ran. Seems to me that interest shouldn’t start until you graduate. My Dh had 50k in loans that ballooned to 80k by the time he paid them off at 27. Ridiculous.

I don't believe in loan forgiveness either but why is it ridiculous? When you take a loan for your house does the interest on the mortgage start accruing 4 years later? No. If you want to borrow money there is a cost and it's called interest. The facts are anyone who takes out a loan for college is accepting the terms of the loan when they sign. No one holds a gun to their heads forcing them to take out the loan. And then there are HS graduates who forego college and enter the work force right after high school or take a loan to start a business. What a raw deal for those folks. This program is all about Biden and the Democrats buying votes for this upcoming election cycle because their horrendous policies are not enough to get people to vote for them.

The difference is that when you take out a mortgage in a house, you get the benefit right away-- you own the house and can live in it, rent it out, or sell it. Of course interest accrues immediately.

Education loans are very different different because you are not buying a tangible asset. You are buying a non-transferable credential that you only get the benefit of if you complete the program (which will require lots of labor). Education loans have no collateral,cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and may result in long term debt for a benefit the borrower never actually receives (if they fail to complete the program). So there are a lot of reasons to treat education loans differently that a mortgage, car loan, credit card, HELOC, etc. They are very unique.

Nope sorry no. When you take out a student loan you get the benefit right away, it’s called attending college. Those tenured professors and bloated university staffs don’t work for free. What you make of your degree is on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

Don’t blame the billionaire for doing this perfectly legal technique, blame the tax code. And lots of wealthy billionaire Democrats do similar legal techniques to lower their taxes.

[Anonymous]

He not only gets to discharge the debt he also isn't going to have to pay any taxes on that. Ordinarily the IRS considers discharge debt to be income. Through the end of 2025, no borrowers will pay federal income taxes on any student debt discharged by the federal government. A provision in the March 2021 COVID-19 relief package stipulates that any debt forgiven from Dec. 31, 2020, to Jan. 1, 2026, will not count as income

The guy is so scammy. He has an online presence so on a lesson webpage his bio includes that he attended University of North Carolina School of the Arts where tuition for instate residents is CURRENTLY only $6,497 for residents. Granted room and board, food, and health insurance adds quite a bit but regardless you would have to pay that somewhere. The reason why he probably still has loans is that he proudly explains how he visits his guru in India EVERY YEAR:

Seeing the value of introspection through the study of music, Joel began to become interested in meditation as a way to improve his artistry. At age 17, he began a 20 year study of Tai Chi and Chi Gong (Sang Gee Tam, David Harold, "Jin Taiyang" Kris Brenner, and Master Yang Fukui), which eventually led him to and intensive study of Zen meditation with the Mountains and Rivers Order in New York in 2004. From there, meditation became the driving force in his life, and developed an Advaita practice in the Indian tradition. Joel has been visiting Jaipur, India to study with his teacher every year since 2011.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

Don’t blame the billionaire for doing this perfectly legal technique, blame the tax code. And lots of wealthy billionaire Democrats do similar legal techniques to lower their taxes.

I know it's legal, but this particular billionaire was not passively watching the tax code be favorable to him. He's a Republican mega-donor and at the at the forefront of pushing the favorable tax environment for billionaires to avoid billions in taxes. So excuse me if I don't get as worked up as the OP about a small potatoes loan forgiveness cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He knew he had to get a better paying job to repay the loan, but he didn't want to give up his passion, which was music.

Now that his almost $250K loan has been paid by us taxpayers, he says he wants to go meditate in India with a guru.

Like what the actual f*.

my nephew has a mild SN and had a hard time finding a job after college; he majored in IT. He found a lowish paying job (like $45K) at a nonprofit and is still paying it off while he lives with his single mom because he can't afford to live on his own and pay off the debt. But, the government didn't pay his debt off. I think it's like $50K. Here's someone who's trying and working a job that has potential for growth, even as he has a hard time of it, and then there's this guy with his music passion, and now he can go meditate because we taxpayers basically gave him $250K.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-xer-got-250-000-181801554.html

Yea, I feel bitter.

I mean, you have no idea whether this musician has special needs. He sounds off. He's 49 and says now he can "start" saving for retirement, but is also considering spending money on a trip. He's low income with no prospect of significant income growth and lives in NYC. Wouldn't you be panicked about not having any savings at 49 yo? I would be. He'll never retire and likely will end up in a bad spot. There's nothing to envy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He knew he had to get a better paying job to repay the loan, but he didn't want to give up his passion, which was music.

Now that his almost $250K loan has been paid by us taxpayers, he says he wants to go meditate in India with a guru.

Like what the actual f*.

my nephew has a mild SN and had a hard time finding a job after college; he majored in IT. He found a lowish paying job (like $45K) at a nonprofit and is still paying it off while he lives with his single mom because he can't afford to live on his own and pay off the debt. But, the government didn't pay his debt off. I think it's like $50K. Here's someone who's trying and working a job that has potential for growth, even as he has a hard time of it, and then there's this guy with his music passion, and now he can go meditate because we taxpayers basically gave him $250K.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-xer-got-250-000-181801554.html

Yea, I feel bitter.

I mean, you have no idea whether this musician has special needs. He sounds off. He's 49 and says now he can "start" saving for retirement, but is also considering spending money on a trip. He's low income with no prospect of significant income growth and lives in NYC. Wouldn't you be panicked about not having any savings at 49 yo? I would be. He'll never retire and likely will end up in a bad spot. There's nothing to envy.

It is rankling that the man made a series of bad decisions throughout his entire life and keeps making more bad decisions, and it's being paid off by the US taxpayers. My taxes! So that he can travel to India every year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG -- I wish someone would create a chart that compares the "cost" of student loan forgiveness against the cost of tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations.

Why do Americans think it's totally unfair to forgive student loans but it's totally fine that most US corporations pay almost nothing in taxes?

When Republicans eliminate taxes for the super rich and for corporations, everyone shrugs.

When Democrats eliminate crippling student loan debt for a few thousand people, everyone goes nuts.

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

Easy. The crippling student loan debt for a few thousand people is only crippling because those few thousand people refuse to work harder and get better paying jobs. Anyone with a moral compass takes responsibility for their decisions and holds themselves accountable. Disappointing to have to coexist with people that constantly take the self-indulgent path.

[Anonymous]

Lots of information missing in that article. It was written to get a reaction from people like Op and they got it.
I'm paying mine, not hoping to get them wiped, and don't really care what others do.
I don't have a nephew to feel sorry about. I'm too busy investing for my kids so they don't even have to borrow any. I would do that to my nephew also. I don't have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe in loan forgiveness. But I was shocked at the way student loans are ran. Seems to me that interest shouldn’t start until you graduate. My Dh had 50k in loans that ballooned to 80k by the time he paid them off at 27. Ridiculous.

I don't believe in loan forgiveness either but why is it ridiculous? When you take a loan for your house does the interest on the mortgage start accruing 4 years later? No. If you want to borrow money there is a cost and it's called interest. The facts are anyone who takes out a loan for college is accepting the terms of the loan when they sign. No one holds a gun to their heads forcing them to take out the loan. And then there are HS graduates who forego college and enter the work force right after high school or take a loan to start a business. What a raw deal for those folks. This program is all about Biden and the Democrats buying votes for this upcoming election cycle because their horrendous policies are not enough to get people to vote for them.

The difference is that when you take out a mortgage in a house, you get the benefit right away-- you own the house and can live in it, rent it out, or sell it. Of course interest accrues immediately.

Education loans are very different different because you are not buying a tangible asset. You are buying a non-transferable credential that you only get the benefit of if you complete the program (which will require lots of labor). Education loans have no collateral,cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and may result in long term debt for a benefit the borrower never actually receives (if they fail to complete the program). So there are a lot of reasons to treat education loans differently that a mortgage, car loan, credit card, HELOC, etc. They are very unique.

Nope sorry no. When you take out a student loan you get the benefit right away, it’s called attending college. Those tenured professors and bloated university staffs don’t work for free. What you make of your degree is on you.

1st pp here. DH's loans were at 6.5%. I figured at that rate (2x what the interest rate was at the time), they wouldn't start until he graduated. Plus, you can't even discharge them in bankruptcy.

We paid them off quickly and I'm glad student loans are there to give poor students like dh a chance to go to college, but they absolutely are a rip off.

I do think it's interesting that so many new graduates run out and buy a 30-50k car. They complain about their student loans, but pay off the car loan in 5 years. We drove complete junkers for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He knew he had to get a better paying job to repay the loan, but he didn't want to give up his passion, which was music.

Now that his almost $250K loan has been paid by us taxpayers, he says he wants to go meditate in India with a guru.

Like what the actual f*.

my nephew has a mild SN and had a hard time finding a job after college; he majored in IT. He found a lowish paying job (like $45K) at a nonprofit and is still paying it off while he lives with his single mom because he can't afford to live on his own and pay off the debt. But, the government didn't pay his debt off. I think it's like $50K. Here's someone who's trying and working a job that has potential for growth, even as he has a hard time of it, and then there's this guy with his music passion, and now he can go meditate because we taxpayers basically gave him $250K.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/gen-xer-got-250-000-181801554.html

Yea, I feel bitter.

I mean, you have no idea whether this musician has special needs. He sounds off. He's 49 and says now he can "start" saving for retirement, but is also considering spending money on a trip. He's low income with no prospect of significant income growth and lives in NYC. Wouldn't you be panicked about not having any savings at 49 yo? I would be. He'll never retire and likely will end up in a bad spot. There's nothing to envy.

It is rankling that the man made a series of bad decisions throughout his entire life and keeps making more bad decisions, and it's being paid off by the US taxpayers. My taxes! So that he can travel to India every year!

Yeah, there are idiots everywhere. This guy is certainly one based on his finances.

I do think it was also pretty criminal that the govt charged 8% interest on student loans for many years when interest rates were super low. (Note that rates were super low because the economy sucked, which resulted in a huge hit to those working in the arts, followed by another big hit to musicians during COVID.)

If he'd been charged market interest rates, I'm sure the balance wouldn't be anywhere close to 250k. I'm curious what part of the principal he's actually paid in the 25 years since he finished grad school. It's entirely possible that he's paid much more than he initially borrowed, but that the balance just kept growing given the interest rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outliers are everywhere. Look at the big picture, not the person the journalist thought would get the most clicks.

Agree with this. I like the student loan forgiveness. And I speak as someone who was able to pay off my loans AND pay for my kids college. I am fortunate and I realize that

I'm all for some loan forgiveness. But kids and parents need to STOP taking out $$$ to attend schools they cannot afford. If you cannot afford more than $25K/year, then don't attend a school that costs $90k+/year and take loans. Find a state school that gives you merit/private that gives merit and have your kid work FT on all breaks and PT during the year where they can earn 10K per year easily.

But I don't see why I should be paying for someone who choose to got to a school that costs $65K per year, major in Art history, then only be able to get a job making $25K/year and complain they cannot pay their loans. No Shit Sherlock! Common sense would have told them that they would most likely only start at $25-30K, and therefore should not have loans totally anymore than $25K over 4 years.

There has to be some personal responsibility for people. College can be done without massive debt, you just have to choose wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s infuriating. I know some people personally who quit their good paying… but “boring”… jobs to pursue their passions and now live off welfare. At least they don’t live near me so I know my money isn’t going to them

Funny how people get infuriated at people with modest incomes scamming the system but shrug their shoulders at people scamming billions of dollars from taxpayer coffers.

The late billionaire Sheldon Adelson, for example, used a complicated trust mechanism called a “grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT)” to “pass on $7.9 billion to his children while avoiding $2.8 billion in gift and estate taxes.”

Don’t blame the billionaire for doing this perfectly legal technique, blame the tax code. And lots of wealthy billionaire Democrats do similar legal techniques to lower their taxes.

Don’t blame the loan for givers for using a perfectly legal technique to put more money into the economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outliers are everywhere. Look at the big picture, not the person the journalist thought would get the most clicks.

Agree with this. I like the student loan forgiveness. And I speak as someone who was able to pay off my loans AND pay for my kids college. I am fortunate and I realize that

I'm all for some loan forgiveness. But kids and parents need to STOP taking out $$$ to attend schools they cannot afford. If you cannot afford more than $25K/year, then don't attend a school that costs $90k+/year and take loans. Find a state school that gives you merit/private that gives merit and have your kid work FT on all breaks and PT during the year where they can earn 10K per year easily.

But I don't see why I should be paying for someone who choose to got to a school that costs $65K per year, major in Art history, then only be able to get a job making $25K/year and complain they cannot pay their loans. No Shit Sherlock! Common sense would have told them that they would most likely only start at $25-30K, and therefore should not have loans totally anymore than $25K over 4 years.

There has to be some personal responsibility for people. College can be done without massive debt, you just have to choose wisely.

And I don’t understand why corporations can bankruptcy and never pay their bills.

Then turn around and restructure under a new name and continuing as if nothing happened.

Don’t be a d!ck pay your bills.