Taking classes for high school credit in middle school

[Anonymous]

Addendum:

We are fortunate that niether we nor our children are terrified by the ethnicity of the weekend schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the poster of the question is indeed truthfull she should acknowledge that her son and her were informed if the middle school child took the high school course that the grade would appear on his high school transcript. Both were aware of the consequences before the child enrolled. Why wasn't this matter resolved then. Of course, now that he did not get the A grade anticipated we have a case a sour grapes and a need to retroactively change the rules for her son. What about about other children who not only that languages but math and sciences in the MCPS high schools while in middle school?

Some of us want our kids to start a language in MS because waiting until HS is too late. In fact, MS is pretty late to start a language. But you are saying that there should be a penalty for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think the major problem with this policy is that it discourages foreign language training at the earlier ages. Every bit of research I've ever read says that the earlier language training begins the better the outcome in terms of fluency, accent and actual ease of mastery. Even MoCo promotes this when discussing their elementary school immersion programs. So MoCo is not practicing what it preaches.

I'm not aware of middle school science classes that receive high school credit.

I agree with this completely -- I'm 13:18, and I posted in response to an earlier email before I saw this.

Early language exposure is important to us. We have done tutors, and we have also done language camps. But not every MCPS family can do these. And it's still penalizing 6th graders to make their grades appear on the HS transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If the poster of the question is indeed truthfull she should acknowledge that her son and her were informed if the middle school child took the high school course that the grade would appear on his high school transcript. Both were aware of the consequences before the child enrolled. Why wasn't this matter resolved then. Of course, now that he did not get the A grade anticipated we have a case a sour grapes and a need to retroactively change the rules for her son. What about about other children who not only that languages but math and sciences in the MCPS high schools while in middle school?


Some of us want our kids to start a language in MS because waiting until HS is too late. In fact, MS is pretty late to start a language. But you are saying that there should be a penalty for this?

Where do you draw this conclusion from? I have read the English response above where is there mention of penalty? If your student is a B student in a high school language class then he is a B student. No penalty here, just accuracy without grade inflation!

A B student is not an A student. An accurate grade is not a penalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the major problem with this policy is that it discourages foreign language training at the earlier ages. Every bit of research I've ever read says that the earlier language training begins the better the outcome in terms of fluency, accent and actual ease of mastery. Even MoCo promotes this when discussing their elementary school immersion programs. So MoCo is not practicing what it preaches.

I'm not aware of middle school science classes that receive high school credit.

I agree with this completely -- I'm 13:18, and I posted in response to an earlier email before I saw this.

Early language exposure is important to us. We have done tutors, and we have also done language camps. But not every MCPS family can do these. And it's still penalizing 6th graders to make their grades appear on the HS transcript.

OP here, and yes, this is my point. Clearly we knew what was at stake (or at least, I did - I don't think an 11yo can really understand this), and my child wanted to take the class anyway, because he was very interested - which is as it should be.

IMO, forcing an 11yo - *any* 11yo - who wants to take a foreign-language class to do so for high school credit (or not at all) amounts to penalizing those children. It is contrary to the stated goal of early exposure to foreign language. (I'll leave aside my own opinion, that "early" would be earlier than middle school - but that's another thread.)

I posted on this topic because, having come from another school system, I'm really struck by this policy at MCPS, regardless of my particular child's experience, and wanted to know what others thought. I don't have any interest in what others think about whether I have "sour grapes" or somehow went into this blindly. How could anyone know this? You don't know me, or my child.

In any case, I think it is a stupid policy and yes, punitive.

I'm really struck by some of the nasty responses to this thread, suggesting that somehow this "punishment" of a B *eyeroll* is deserved (?) because my child and I went into this "knowing what the consequences were," or that I have "sour grapes" or wouldn't have this reaction if my child had earned an A. Is this representative of the DC-area demographic, or just DCUM? I don't expect to find out the answer, but in any case, given how crappy I feel after having asked this seemingly simple question, I won't be posting here again.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this completely -- I'm 13:18, and I posted in response to an earlier email before I saw this.

Early language exposure is important to us. We have done tutors, and we have also done language camps. But not every MCPS family can do these. And it's still penalizing 6th graders to make their grades appear on the HS transcript.

Leave no middle school child behind.

Why should the high school class drop their standards for a middle school student? If you belong you play by the high school rules or else our children, too, will skip middle school and have my child take all high school classes if he has the option of discounting the grade. Why wouldn't many capable children prefer the potential enrichment and acceleration of high school classes to the watered down middle school variety.

Will you whine at the university that gives your middle or high school student a B or C in one of their classes?

Some middle school and high school students take college and university level courses. There no reason to expect to be graded on a different scale. Some middle school and high school students take AP exams with/or without taking the AP courses. They are not graded on a scale related to age, size, sex and maturity. Those grades will stay on the AP College Board record.

Many students take the SAT exams (designed for 11th grade) multiple times before the 9th grade. When the College Board used to keep all scores from the 9th grade up on the permanent SAT record parents and their children would take the SAT for practise several times before the 9th grade, and then wait until the 11 grade to retake these exams.

If you child is capable and passionate about the language or any other subject, and it is appropriate to put him or her in an advanced high school or college class, why teach to the middle school student. Teach to the whole class and let the grades fall where they fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If the poster of the question is indeed truthfull she should acknowledge that her son and her were informed if the middle school child took the high school course that the grade would appear on his high school transcript. Both were aware of the consequences before the child enrolled. Why wasn't this matter resolved then. Of course, now that he did not get the A grade anticipated we have a case a sour grapes and a need to retroactively change the rules for her son. What about about other children who not only that languages but math and sciences in the MCPS high schools while in middle school?


Some of us want our kids to start a language in MS because waiting until HS is too late. In fact, MS is pretty late to start a language. But you are saying that there should be a penalty for this?

Where do you draw this conclusion from? I have read the English response above where is there mention of penalty? If your student is a B student in a high school language class then he is a B student. No penalty here, just accuracy without grade inflation!

A B student is not an A student. An accurate grade is not a penalty.

You are right that an acccurate grade is not a penalty.

What is a penalty, is making an 11yo who wants to learn a foreign language either not take a class at all, or take the class for high school credit.

[Anonymous]

Are you fucking kidding me? A B? Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the major problem with this policy is that it discourages foreign language training at the earlier ages. Every bit of research I've ever read says that the earlier language training begins the better the outcome in terms of fluency, accent and actual ease of mastery. Even MoCo promotes this when discussing their elementary school immersion programs. So MoCo is not practicing what it preaches.

I'm not aware of middle school science classes that receive high school credit.

I agree with this completely -- I'm 13:18, and I posted in response to an earlier email before I saw this.

Early language exposure is important to us. We have done tutors, and we have also done language camps. But not every MCPS family can do these. And it's still penalizing 6th graders to make their grades appear on the HS transcript.

OP here, and yes, this is my point. Clearly we knew what was at stake (or at least, I did - I don't think an 11yo can really understand this), and my child wanted to take the class anyway, because he was very interested - which is as it should be.

IMO, forcing an 11yo - *any* 11yo - who wants to take a foreign-language class to do so for high school credit (or not at all) amounts to penalizing those children. It is contrary to the stated goal of early exposure to foreign language. (I'll leave aside my own opinion, that "early" would be earlier than middle school - but that's another thread.)

I posted on this topic because, having come from another school system, I'm really struck by this policy at MCPS, regardless of my particular child's experience, and wanted to know what others thought. I don't have any interest in what others think about whether I have "sour grapes" or somehow went into this blindly. How could anyone know this? You don't know me, or my child.

In any case, I think it is a stupid policy and yes, punitive.

I'm really struck by some of the nasty responses to this thread, suggesting that somehow this "punishment" of a B *eyeroll* is deserved (?) because my child and I went into this "knowing what the consequences were," or that I have "sour grapes" or wouldn't have this reaction if my child had earned an A. Is this representative of the DC-area demographic, or just DCUM? I don't expect to find out the answer, but in any case, given how crappy I feel after having asked this seemingly simple question, I won't be posting here again.

PP don't get discouraged. This poster must a troll spoiling for a fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you fucking kidding me? A B? Get a grip.

OK what about a C?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child took a foreign language this year in sixth grade. We've just received DC's report card and child earned straight As, but because of getting a B on the final exam in the foreign language, and even though child earned As in two quarters this year (Bs the other quarters) in that subject, the overall grade for the year is B.

That B is the only grade that will be part of child's high school transcript. None of the other grades will matter when it comes time to apply to colleges (SEVEN years from now). But, that B will matter.

There is nothing wrong with a B. It is a perfectly respectable grade. I don't have any problem with child's efforts or results achieved.

BUT.

That said, what kind of a crazy system takes an eleven-year-old's foreign-language grade into account for a high school transcript?

uh oh

Someone's helicopter just crash landed!

[Anonymous]

No the public school system is not making the child take this course for credit. The parent and the child are consenting to take this course for credit on the high school transcript.

There are many useful intellectual pursuits that should be started early in intellectual development including languages, arts, mathematics and science.

By the logic of posters here, since camps and tutors are expensive ,my child should be able to do these things, entitled, in public school without the grades appearing on their record. Thus, my language, computer, mathematics and science whiz 10 year-old should be allowed to take these subjects (not offered in middle school -- honors geometry, computer programming, and languages) in the high school without the grade appearing on the high school transcript. He is really passionate about it with great work ethic. He should be allowed to take this in the public school high school. Furthermore, he should not be penalized by his grades showing up on his high school transcript. Should high school students have the option of taking courses where grades don't show up on their high school transcripts?

We will use the public high school system as our surrogate private school for elective courses in languages, computer programming higher mathematics, physics and chemistry (not offered in middle school). These are important for the 21st century globe. Hell, it's free. I don't have to pay directly out of pocket for camps and a tutor. My child does not have to wait until high school to take physics, languages and higher mathematics. The grades will not go on his high school transcript. To good to be true. I'm in on this!

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and went to a very competitive public high school that at the time (20+ years ago) may have been even more well regarded than the ones around here. In any event we took foreign languages in middle school and got high school credit (one year for two year's of language in middle school) so that we could start in sophomore year for our particular language. However, we did not get any actual GRADE counted toward our GPA. Frankly, I agree with the OP that this MCPS' policy is insane. My children (currently in elementary school) are looking forward to taking a foreign language in middle school but I want them to be able to just learn and enjoy it without worrying about the grade. Kids are still getting their acts together in middle school and are certainly not focused on how their transcripts affect college the way they are in high school. I am on our school's PTA Board and I am going to raise this issue with our president in the fall and ask her who I should direct my comments to regarding this issue. I doubt anything will get changed but I just want to raise it.

[Anonymous]

Great approach however I doubt the MCPS high schools would have the resources to accommodate all the middle school students in the county that will immediately avail themselves of this opportunity "without skin in the game" = grade counts. Frankly, this grade obsession is foolish. No college worth it's salt will disregard/discount a 10 year-old getting Bs in high school of college courses. If the fit and challenge are appropriate go ahead. I do not buy into the local grade obsession. Cream rises even with Bs obtained in high school courses by elementary and middle school kids. Strictly my opinion. This approach did not fail me growing up and has not failed my children all of whom at one time or another were 4-6 th grades ahead in subjects and forced to take material for grades at higher levels. They were not driven by grades rather passion and challenge. I'll happily take the Bs as a 10/11 year-old in high school language, math and science courses for the 5s on the AP exams in high school whereever that may be if not even in the same elementary or middle school district.

Cream rises to the top. Worthy institutions at the collegiate level can recognize accomplishment when they see it. Talk to the homeschoolers -- without public or private high school transcripts--for these lessons!

[Anonymous]

You are right that an acccurate grade is not a penalty.

What is a penalty, is making an 11yo who wants to learn a foreign language either not take a class at all, or take the class for high school credit.

You are lucky that MCPS high school will allow your middle school child to sit next to a high school student in their school and classroom taking language, mathematics and science courses. Some middle school students don't even have this option in public ... or private school. In the latter instance, no foul no penalty. I would prefer the have an option to advance to high school classes for my children. I'm willing to have skin in the game and take the grade on his transcript. If my child good not compete eith the high school students I certainly would not advise that he take the high school classes as a 10 year-old. If he is capable of competing at that level..no problem on this end. This philosophy applies to sport, music and art.