"Useless B.A"

[Anonymous]

I've been having a discussion with a friend about bachelor's degrees. She believes that B.A's are becoming obsolete and the job market is starved for trades. From an anecdotal perspective she has friends with graduate degrees working in entry level customer service jobs. I'm doing my graduate degree in child and youth care and must digress from her position. I feel that if you are strategic in school and balance professional interests with personal you will be able to pursue a career. Often a B.A is not enough and you need to do internships, research, co-op's and volunteering to be an attractive candidate for positions. I see her argument that yes - there is a huge demand for trade but we can't all be plumbers and mechanics. The market needs psychologists, support workers, social workers, human resource, etc. My classmates and colleagues that were proactive about their education and opportunities found work in teaching, gov't, and non-profits. However, it's like any route, if you slack off and don't get good grades or not seek out opportunity you will flounder.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Grad degrees are a waste of money unless a current position requires getting it part-time to move up to upper management at the same company. Except a bachelors in psychology is not useful I suppose and requires a doctorate.

If I went with my bachelor's degree, I would be making 2x+ what I do know. Big mistake.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to 2013. Surely this is not the first time you have heard that argument. Most degrees are useless. You don't go to school to learn, you go to get the yummy certificate at the end. There are exceptions, but that is not the norm.

Do whatever you want but you don't need to try and justify it. But you sound like a naive child. You can work hard, get good grades, have wonderful references and still end up with 50k in debt and making $10 an hour.

[Anonymous]

I have a useless BA but make $400-500k a year. That's because I went to grad school, which I wouldn't have been able to do without the useless BA.

Of course there is a need for the trades, but I think one also needs to look at long term earning potential. While people with highly specialized skills will be in demand upon graduation, what's the upward mobility in those jobs? What skills will be required 10 years from now, not just next year. What happens if the demand for your skill drops off (e.g., a certain kind of programming).

I don't think you can apply the same standards to every field. Some things you can learn through an apprenticeship model, some things in a 2 year program, some things in a 6-9 year program.

[Anonymous]

You mean this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/education/edlife/edl-24masters-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The Master’s as the New Bachelor’s

"William Klein’s story may sound familiar to his fellow graduates. After earning his bachelor’s in history from the College at Brockport, he found himself living in his parents’ Buffalo home, working the same $7.25-an-hour waiter job he had in high school.
It wasn’t that there weren’t other jobs out there. It’s that they all seemed to want more education. Even tutoring at a for-profit learning center or leading tours at a historic site required a master’s. “It’s pretty apparent that with the degree I have right now, there are not too many jobs I would want to commit to,” Mr. Klein says....."

[Anonymous]

I find it hard to feel sorry for folks who don't go to grad school. I made $15K with a Master's Degree. So what. It was worth it. That job has helped me tremendously. I came out of college during a recession in 1991. We didn't cry b/c there were no jobs. We went to grad school or were waiters. Big deal. It doesn't last forever. Now I make over $200K.

[Anonymous]

I dont necessarily agree, getting a college degree is a life experience that one can build on regardless of whether they fo to grad school I have *only* a BA. I work for myself in a field where a graduate degree would be useless. Then again you could argue that i dont use my B.A. either, but i wouldnt be where i am today withoutthose experience. I think it's highly dependent on the career.
I don't think that your college or graduate degree defines your life or your career potential.

[Anonymous]

My "double" B.A.s in history and psych were as worthless to me in 1979 as they are to any student today, but even more so. Can't get a job off a BA in history and psych. It was only law school that saved me. So I agree with OP's friend: my children are going to get useful degrees (but, yes 4 year, with all the liberal arts crap) in technology and computers, and fluency in a desirable language, so they can get a job when they graduate. And if they are fortunate enough (and can finance it), then I'm all for grad school of any type except a D.Phil. which gets yo nothing but a chance at returning to college to be a professor.

[Anonymous]

Depends where the BA is from. All BA's are definitely not equal. IF you can get into and afford a top school it's certainly not worthless. As an employer I look at BA from a top school (private or state) very differently from the mass of for profit schools or known 3rd tier and below schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends where the BA is from. All BA's are definitely not equal. IF you can get into and afford a top school it's certainly not worthless. As an employer I look at BA from a top school (private or state) very differently from the mass of for profit schools or known 3rd tier and below schools.

+1 give me a philosophy major from a top 3 liberal arts college or university over a top business major from a third tier school any day. The former can read, write, and speak articulately, and is easily trainable with a good work ethic; the latter, not so much. Clients also are more impressed by the school than the major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends where the BA is from. All BA's are definitely not equal. IF you can get into and afford a top school it's certainly not worthless. As an employer I look at BA from a top school (private or state) very differently from the mass of for profit schools or known 3rd tier and below schools.

+1 give me a philosophy major from a top 3 liberal arts college or university over a top business major from a third tier school any day. The former can read, write, and speak articulately, and is easily trainable with a good work ethic; the latter, not so much. Clients also are more impressed by the school than the major.

I agree with this, to a certain extent. I always scratch my head at people who claim there is no difference in colleges. Yes, if you're lookign at payign $45,000/year for a third tier private university, you should reconsider and do communitycollege for a few years, than maybe a public college. But the truly top tier universities and colleges convey benefits for your entire life - far after you apply for that first job.

[Anonymous]

Whatever happened to education for its own sake? Sheesh. I was apprenticed to an outstanding carpenter once. He'd been to college and used to recite Shakespeare while we worked. He was very entertaining and a skilled tradesman. Great teacher for me.

[Anonymous]

We went on a China tour last summer. Our local tour guide spoke (in English) in a very educated way. His knowledge covers global ecology to ancient Greek history. He was a professor in Peking University before the Tiananmen Square protest. After the incident, he was black listed and ban from teaching.
Now, as a tour guide, he make x times more $$ than a professor. He cannot have his dream work back, but he lives, well enough.
So Degrees DO help.

[Anonymous]

don't worry the federal government will hire the useless degrees like poly sci, history and english.

[Anonymous]

I had the double-useless BA....double major in psychology and women studies in 99'. I did however get a doctorate in psychology and now have a nice career, so the psych degree paid off with further training. I would probably making about half of what I do now with my bachelors degree in an unrelated field (i.e. sales, etc.)