URMs Feeling Pressure to Prove Themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

Curious why this is a worry. Because your assumption that these institutions should belong to white hands? That's the crux of all this. Someone is taking something from White kids. I would love 10 years of Asian only admits to see how that shakes out in society - for so many reasons!

Well, yes, since the vast majority of Asians have only lived in this country for the last couple of decades. Out-reproducing the United States and then moving here for our excellent education, doesn't entitle you to all of the spots at top schools. So yes, those spots do belong in the hands of people who have funded them for generations.

Wow - so does the date at which your family showed up in the US determine the cut off date for which citizens get to be real citizens or fake citizens? What if the cutoff date is the Mayflower landing and only one side of your family goes back that far, do you get partial rights? How about Asian American immigrants who have intermarried with people with Native American heritage? What is their status?

You know Asians are not the first First Generation (either in the US, or college students) applying to US colleges right now, don't you? What gives you the right to think you are the only ones who "deserve" an education, at a specific school? Look, you moved from one crowded continent to another, and the US is just getting more crowded - AND the US is not a Communist Society - so you are just going to have to adapt.

We are indeed a communist society. All we're doing here is quibbling over who should be the proletariat (should it be Asians too or just URMs?) who should be the kulaks (whitey or the Asians too?) and who should be the commissar who takes good things from the kulaks and gives them to the deserving proletariat.

[Anonymous]

OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

No OP says her kids feel pressure to prove themselves. Given the fact that they legally have an advantage in college admissions. Fact is they can get in with lower stats.

Many posters are pointing out that she is living in an oppressed bubble by not realizing that Asian kids have actual pressure to prove themselves given the fact they are legally discriminated against in college admissions. Fact is they must have higher stats than OPs kid plus all the extras to even make the first cut.

OP please remember the higher stress and mental disadvantages other kids have to face before lamenting on the small discomfort your kids might feel while they head off to top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

You can't have it both ways. Affirmative Action is flawed. You need to include URMs and everyone of every race who is poor. Give them resources and extra education to level the playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

Curious why this is a worry. Because your assumption that these institutions should belong to white hands? That's the crux of all this. Someone is taking something from White kids. I would love 10 years of Asian only admits to see how that shakes out in society - for so many reasons!

Well, yes, since the vast majority of Asians have only lived in this country for the last couple of decades. Out-reproducing the United States and then moving here for our excellent education, doesn't entitle you to all of the spots at top schools. So yes, those spots do belong in the hands of people who have funded them for generations.

+1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

Curious why this is a worry. Because your assumption that these institutions should belong to white hands? That's the crux of all this. Someone is taking something from White kids. I would love 10 years of Asian only admits to see how that shakes out in society - for so many reasons!

Well, yes, since the vast majority of Asians have only lived in this country for the last couple of decades. Out-reproducing the United States and then moving here for our excellent education, doesn't entitle you to all of the spots at top schools. So yes, those spots do belong in the hands of people who have funded them for generations.

+1000.

-1000

I guess recent Hispanics and Black immigrants shouldn't be able to go to universities, either. Colleges are only for "real" Americans. MAGA

[Anonymous]

OP - I want to start with the fact that ! am 100% in support of URM advantage in admissions, even among families where the kid is second generation or from a very successful wealthy URM family.

But the bottom line is this....if there is a URM advantage given by a university (just like, if there is a legacy advantage given by a university) - your kid was ABSOLUTELY given an advantage. Even if they are very high stats, or even if they have THE HIGHEST stats, they were given an advantage over other applicants who also had those outstanding stats. LOTS of uber-achiever kids get shut out of the most competitive colleges. That's just the way it is. There are SOOOO MANY students denied from the top schools that have the stats to support admission - there just isn't room for them all. So even if you are an URM among that group of outstanding students - you were STILL given an advantage to be chosen. That's ok. It doesn't downplay your achievement at all. But it's simply a reality that you were given a chance to step out of that group.

In a situation like this, you need to just let what other people think slide off your back (and off your kids' back). There's no use in proving anything and you don't need to prove anything to anybody anyway. Be yourself and have your kid be themselves. Just like anyone, they can be happy with their school and then make sure they the most of the opportunities it provides.

I know it's hard. And it sucks that people will always put an asterisk there - but there is an asterisk. Sadly, I'm sure there are many other things you have to let slide off your back too.

[Anonymous]

Just own it, who cares what other people think? I guess I just don't get this line of thinking. People scream ad-nauseum about white privilege, take a look at how all those white people cope on a day to day basis as they drip with all of their privilege and live their easy lives and incorporate it into your paradigm for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When requirements are lower for certain groups (whether race, legacy, gender, etc) than for others, and where there are far more qualified candidates than available slots, it would seem simply correct to state that the people in those groups have an easier time being admitted and that there is not a level playing field. That doesn’t at all mean that they are not qualified and won’t do a terrific job, or won’t make the best and a terrific use of the opportunity. But to simultaneously state your legacy status, race, or gender on an application, knowing that it is to your benefit, and then to express frustration that others recognize this basic fact, seems disingenuous.

I personally am quite glad that there is affirmative action. I think it is good for our society and the right choice. I also know that, on average, my kids will need to score multiple hundreds of points higher than their wealthy URM and legacy classmates at the top of DC private. Is that fair or equitable on the small scale? I think not. Does it make sense to me on the wider scale? To me, yes. But that doesn’t mean that it is not social engineering and that some applicants are held to higher standards. I don’t think that it is inaccurate or offensive to point that out. It’s simply the truth of the policy choice that has been made. But when my daughter is around her primarily URM friends, and they kid her that she and two other girls (Indian descent) in their group should go study, because they actually have to do well on their ACTs, that’s feels true to her. And the kids all know and seem to accept it. Do any of the parents actually think the kids don’t see the different admissions standard applied to certain groups (race, legacy, in certain contexts gender)? They’ve been friends and in school together for years. They are friends, date each other, are in study groups together, etc. does anyone actually think they don’t see that lower grades/scores/activities are required for legacies and URMs, and for goodness sakes that their Asian friends are expected to walk on water to have the same admissions. Could anyone actually say otherwise, regardless of whether you think this is a good policy choice?

This is what I would have written. Your micro view can be different than your macro view about an issue. I know that there are some colleges that are out of reach for my smart DD because she is white and one of the most represented demographics in secondary education. And I feel sad for her. But when AA is struck down, I will also worry about potentially reduced opportunities for students who were meant to benefit from AA and worry about what it means for them on a micro level and for society at a macro level. (And I don't believe a race-blind admissions system will demonstrably improve my DD's chances.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

Curious why this is a worry. Because your assumption that these institutions should belong to white hands? That's the crux of all this. Someone is taking something from White kids. I would love 10 years of Asian only admits to see how that shakes out in society - for so many reasons!

Well, yes, since the vast majority of Asians have only lived in this country for the last couple of decades. Out-reproducing the United States and then moving here for our excellent education, doesn't entitle you to all of the spots at top schools. So yes, those spots do belong in the hands of people who have funded them for generations.

In fact 18 years.
My kid was born in the US, and 18 years old.
Your kid is not some sort of higher class citizen who deserves more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

No OP says her kids feel pressure to prove themselves. Given the fact that they legally have an advantage in college admissions. Fact is they can get in with lower stats.

Many posters are pointing out that she is living in an oppressed bubble by not realizing that Asian kids have actual pressure to prove themselves given the fact they are legally discriminated against in college admissions. Fact is they must have higher stats than OPs kid plus all the extras to even make the first cut.

OP please remember the higher stress and mental disadvantages other kids have to face before lamenting on the small discomfort your kids might feel while they head off to top schools.

+10000
Well Said

Whining about fake pressure when Asian kids getting the real pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Affirmative Action is removed, I worry White families might continue to feel their kids will be at a disadvantage. Going by scores alone, most elite schools will be filled with Asian American students.

Curious why this is a worry. Because your assumption that these institutions should belong to white hands? That's the crux of all this. Someone is taking something from White kids. I would love 10 years of Asian only admits to see how that shakes out in society - for so many reasons!

Well, yes, since the vast majority of Asians have only lived in this country for the last couple of decades. Out-reproducing the United States and then moving here for our excellent education, doesn't entitle you to all of the spots at top schools. So yes, those spots do belong in the hands of people who have funded them for generations.

In fact 18 years.
My kid was born in the US, and 18 years old.
Your kid is not some sort of higher class citizen who deserves more.

+1. I've lived in the US 30 years and the amount of taxes I pay per year is probably more than the annual income of the fool you are responding to. If we go by contribution, we are entitled to more than what he is entitled to. After all his ancestors were the ones that killed on the natives and promoted/profited from slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just own it, who cares what other people think? I guess I just don't get this line of thinking. People scream ad-nauseum about white privilege, take a look at how all those white people cope on a day to day basis as they drip with all of their privilege and live their easy lives and incorporate it into your paradigm for life.

Exactly.

Besides, the reasoning behind AA is that all things are not equal. So your child didn't have it easier than others along the way to admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

No OP says her kids feel pressure to prove themselves. Given the fact that they legally have an advantage in college admissions. Fact is they can get in with lower stats.

Many posters are pointing out that she is living in an oppressed bubble by not realizing that Asian kids have actual pressure to prove themselves given the fact they are legally discriminated against in college admissions. Fact is they must have higher stats than OPs kid plus all the extras to even make the first cut.

OP please remember the higher stress and mental disadvantages other kids have to face before lamenting on the small discomfort your kids might feel while they head off to top schools.

This is not accurate. All the stats are high. Trying to claim a 1600 scorer is smarter than a 1530 or a kid who doesn't test well who submitted other validation is ridiculous.

Some Asian kids often have pressure from parents to prove themselves in a very narrow way. It results in similar candidates. If parents didn't push the aops, test prep (A++, Dr. Li, etc) for various stem magnets, cty, piano/strings, robotics, aime, (if sport) golf/tennis, hyper stem focus etc etc, students would be better able to offer diverse assets to the community. If more kids were able to focus on what interests them, that would make a difference.

Also, Ivies are over 20-30% Asian. Significantly more than URMs combined and far greater than general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OPs point is that affirmative action means URMs are not taken seriously. Stick to the topic - and leave others out of this.

No OP says her kids feel pressure to prove themselves. Given the fact that they legally have an advantage in college admissions. Fact is they can get in with lower stats.

Many posters are pointing out that she is living in an oppressed bubble by not realizing that Asian kids have actual pressure to prove themselves given the fact they are legally discriminated against in college admissions. Fact is they must have higher stats than OPs kid plus all the extras to even make the first cut.

OP please remember the higher stress and mental disadvantages other kids have to face before lamenting on the small discomfort your kids might feel while they head off to top schools.

This is not accurate. All the stats are high. Trying to claim a 1600 scorer is smarter than a 1530 or a kid who doesn't test well who submitted other validation is ridiculous.

Some Asian kids often have pressure from parents to prove themselves in a very narrow way. It results in similar candidates. If parents didn't push the aops, test prep (A++, Dr. Li, etc) for various stem magnets, cty, piano/strings, robotics, aime, (if sport) golf/tennis, hyper stem focus etc etc, students would be better able to offer diverse assets to the community. If more kids were able to focus on what interests them, that would make a difference.

Also, Ivies are over 20-30% Asian. Significantly more than URMs combined and far greater than general population.

Again with the stereotyping of all Asians.

Statistics show that URM can get in with lower stats. Data doesn't lie, nor is it prone to subjective opinions of "likeable personality".

Some URM can't hack it. They need help, I guess. -- see how that works?